When discipline becomes confused with punishment
Child's death 'work of the devil'
A 7-year-old girl becomes Toronto's 39th homicide of the year Aug 04, 2008 09:45 AM Joanna Smith Staff Reporter Beverley Walker wiped away tears as she spoke about the heartbreak her long-time friend Bernice Sampson experienced yesterday after learning her 7-year-old daughter had been killed. "I'm sorry for Bernice," the 56-year-old woman said while sitting in a coffee shop in the Queen St. W. and Lansdowne Ave. area with a group of close friends. "She's not going to make it. She's gone. She was having a hard time already. She didn't want to give her up in the first place." As she spoke, Walker spotted Sampson with a friend stumbling along the sidewalk outside, clutching a school photograph of her chubby-faced daughter Katelynn Sampson, who earlier in the morning had become Toronto's 39th homicide victim of the year. Walker ran outside to meet her and the grieving mother collapsed into her arms. About an hour earlier, Sampson had screamed and hurled herself at the front door of a highrise apartment building at 105 West Lodge Ave. where her daughter had been found dead. Her weeping friends had pulled her into a car and tried to calm her. Katelynn had been pronounced dead in a second-floor apartment shortly after Toronto EMS responded to a 911 call made around 2:30 a.m. regarding a young girl who had stopped breathing while choking on food. The paramedic realized quickly that the girl "had been dead for quite some time" and that her body showed "obvious signs of trauma" that contradicted the story, Toronto homicide Det. Sgt. Steve Ryan said at a press conference at police headquarters yesterday. "She clearly had not choked," Ryan said. "I can't get into specifics, just that she was assaulted around her entire body." Ryan, describing the scene, said, "It's the work of the devil. That's what it is." Police arrested Donna Irving, 29, who had called 911 and was alone in the apartment with the victim at the time, and charged her with second-degree murder. She is scheduled to appear in court today. Irving was coherent as she was arrested and has no history of mental illness, Ryan said. She had been granted sole custody of Katelynn in January but Ryan could not confirm how or why. He said Irving was living with her boyfriend – who Bernice Sampson identified as her friend Warren Johnson – and their two biological sons who were not harmed and are with their father. The father has been co-operative with police and is not a suspect, Ryan said. Irving has two other underage children who do not live with her, he said. [. . .] Only flamingly incompetent and/or ignorant and/or immature parents, cowards and perverts deliberately cause children pain in the name of "discipline." People who can't raise children without hurting them should be closely monitored by child-care authorities or lose custody of them altogether. Assholes who are unable to control a child's behaviour without violence -- something billions of people ARE able to do -- have no business caring for children. I say that not only as an advocate for children's rights and welfare, but as a FATHER who managed to raise three great kids without ever laying a punitive hand on them. I'm not Dr. Spock. If I can do it, so can you. Unless, of course, you are one of those above-mentioned incompetents, fools, immature parents, cowards, perverts or assholes. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
"Ivan Gowch" wrote in message ... Child's death 'work of the devil' A 7-year-old girl becomes Toronto's 39th homicide of the year Aug 04, 2008 09:45 AM Joanna Smith Staff Reporter Beverley Walker wiped away tears as she spoke about the heartbreak her long-time friend Bernice Sampson experienced yesterday after learning her 7-year-old daughter had been killed. "I'm sorry for Bernice," the 56-year-old woman said while sitting in a coffee shop in the Queen St. W. and Lansdowne Ave. area with a group of close friends. "She's not going to make it. She's gone. She was having a hard time already. She didn't want to give her up in the first place." As she spoke, Walker spotted Sampson with a friend stumbling along the sidewalk outside, clutching a school photograph of her chubby-faced daughter Katelynn Sampson, who earlier in the morning had become Toronto's 39th homicide victim of the year. Walker ran outside to meet her and the grieving mother collapsed into her arms. About an hour earlier, Sampson had screamed and hurled herself at the front door of a highrise apartment building at 105 West Lodge Ave. where her daughter had been found dead. Her weeping friends had pulled her into a car and tried to calm her. Katelynn had been pronounced dead in a second-floor apartment shortly after Toronto EMS responded to a 911 call made around 2:30 a.m. regarding a young girl who had stopped breathing while choking on food. The paramedic realized quickly that the girl "had been dead for quite some time" and that her body showed "obvious signs of trauma" that contradicted the story, Toronto homicide Det. Sgt. Steve Ryan said at a press conference at police headquarters yesterday. "She clearly had not choked," Ryan said. "I can't get into specifics, just that she was assaulted around her entire body." Ryan, describing the scene, said, "It's the work of the devil. That's what it is." Police arrested Donna Irving, 29, who had called 911 and was alone in the apartment with the victim at the time, and charged her with second-degree murder. She is scheduled to appear in court today. Irving was coherent as she was arrested and has no history of mental illness, Ryan said. She had been granted sole custody of Katelynn in January but Ryan could not confirm how or why. He said Irving was living with her boyfriend - who Bernice Sampson identified as her friend Warren Johnson - and their two biological sons who were not harmed and are with their father. The father has been co-operative with police and is not a suspect, Ryan said. Irving has two other underage children who do not live with her, he said. [. . .] Only flamingly incompetent and/or ignorant and/or immature parents, cowards and perverts deliberately cause children pain in the name of "discipline." People who can't raise children without hurting them should be closely monitored by child-care authorities or lose custody of them altogether. Assholes who are unable to control a child's behaviour without violence -- something billions of people ARE able to do -- have no business caring for children. I say that not only as an advocate for children's rights and welfare, but as a FATHER who managed to raise three great kids without ever laying a punitive hand on them. I'm not Dr. Spock. If I can do it, so can you. Unless, of course, you are one of those above-mentioned incompetents, fools, immature parents, cowards, perverts or assholes. 1. This was not a case of discipline gone wrong, its a case of abuse. Child abuse. Learn the difference. 2. Spastic advocacy is not going to help your cause. Moderate your personal feelings with common sense and wise words. 3. You have raised 3 kids. Congrats. I have raised 235. I'm not Dr. Spock either, he's an idiot, one that has caused more damage to the family structure and our society than the entire CPS system. I use CP when its appropriate, but never on the foster children in my home. I dont throw away a tool just because some moron out there does not like it, THAT would be foolish. Ron |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:25:37 -0500, "Ron"
wrote: == Child's death 'work of the devil' == == A 7-year-old girl becomes Toronto's 39th homicide of the year == == Aug 04, 2008 09:45 AM == == Joanna Smith == Staff Reporter == == Beverley Walker wiped away tears as she spoke about the heartbreak her == long-time friend Bernice Sampson experienced yesterday after learning == her 7-year-old daughter had been killed. == == "I'm sorry for Bernice," the 56-year-old woman said while sitting in a == coffee shop in the Queen St. W. and Lansdowne Ave. area with a group == of close friends. == == "She's not going to make it. She's gone. She was having a hard time == already. She didn't want to give her up in the first place." == == As she spoke, Walker spotted Sampson with a friend stumbling along the == sidewalk outside, clutching a school photograph of her chubby-faced == daughter Katelynn Sampson, who earlier in the morning had become == Toronto's 39th homicide victim of the year. == == Walker ran outside to meet her and the grieving mother collapsed into == her arms. == == About an hour earlier, Sampson had screamed and hurled herself at the == front door of a highrise apartment building at 105 West Lodge Ave. == where her daughter had been found dead. Her weeping friends had pulled == her into a car and tried to calm her. == == Katelynn had been pronounced dead in a second-floor apartment shortly == after Toronto EMS responded to a 911 call made around 2:30 a.m. == regarding a young girl who had stopped breathing while choking on == food. == == The paramedic realized quickly that the girl "had been dead for quite == some time" and that her body showed "obvious signs of trauma" that == contradicted the story, Toronto homicide Det. Sgt. Steve Ryan said at == a press conference at police headquarters yesterday. [...] ==1. This was not a case of discipline gone wrong, its a case of abuse. ==Child abuse. Learn the difference. Bull****. There is no difference between deliberately causing a child pain in the name of discipline and abuse, except in the minds of assholes who want to excuse the damage they do to the children in their care. If I should decide to administer multiple blows to some part of your anatomy, Ronnie, you sure as hell would consider it abuse, you hypocritical sicko. ==2. Spastic advocacy is not going to help your cause. Moderate your ==personal feelings with common sense and wise words. I don't take advice from douchebag apologists for child abuse. ==3. You have raised 3 kids. Congrats. I have raised 235. Sure you have. ==I'm not Dr. ==Spock either, he's an idiot, Dr. Benjamin Spock is the most renowned name in the science of baby and child care, and you are a douchebag apologist for child-beating. Gee, I wonder who has more credibility? ==I use CP when its ==appropriate, What you mean is, you hurt children when doing so will make YOU feel good. You are apparently a sadist and an incompetent care-giver and I hope someone is watching you carefully. Clearly, you are a danger to any child unfortunate enough to be within your foul reach. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
"Ivan Gowch" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:25:37 -0500, "Ron" wrote: == Child's death 'work of the devil' == == A 7-year-old girl becomes Toronto's 39th homicide of the year == == Aug 04, 2008 09:45 AM == == Joanna Smith == Staff Reporter == == Beverley Walker wiped away tears as she spoke about the heartbreak her == long-time friend Bernice Sampson experienced yesterday after learning == her 7-year-old daughter had been killed. == == "I'm sorry for Bernice," the 56-year-old woman said while sitting in a == coffee shop in the Queen St. W. and Lansdowne Ave. area with a group == of close friends. == == "She's not going to make it. She's gone. She was having a hard time == already. She didn't want to give her up in the first place." == == As she spoke, Walker spotted Sampson with a friend stumbling along the == sidewalk outside, clutching a school photograph of her chubby-faced == daughter Katelynn Sampson, who earlier in the morning had become == Toronto's 39th homicide victim of the year. == == Walker ran outside to meet her and the grieving mother collapsed into == her arms. == == About an hour earlier, Sampson had screamed and hurled herself at the == front door of a highrise apartment building at 105 West Lodge Ave. == where her daughter had been found dead. Her weeping friends had pulled == her into a car and tried to calm her. == == Katelynn had been pronounced dead in a second-floor apartment shortly == after Toronto EMS responded to a 911 call made around 2:30 a.m. == regarding a young girl who had stopped breathing while choking on == food. == == The paramedic realized quickly that the girl "had been dead for quite == some time" and that her body showed "obvious signs of trauma" that == contradicted the story, Toronto homicide Det. Sgt. Steve Ryan said at == a press conference at police headquarters yesterday. [...] ==1. This was not a case of discipline gone wrong, its a case of abuse. ==Child abuse. Learn the difference. Bull****. There is no difference between deliberately causing a child pain in the name of discipline and abuse, except in the minds of assholes who want to excuse the damage they do to the children in their care. Nice opinion, now prove your point. If I should decide to administer multiple blows to some part of your anatomy, Ronnie, you sure as hell would consider it abuse, you hypocritical sicko. Not likely. First you would have to have a reason, and second you would have to prove that it is a better form of correction than others that are used for the same problem. Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. Read Heinleins Star Ship Troopers for more info. ==2. Spastic advocacy is not going to help your cause. Moderate your ==personal feelings with common sense and wise words. I don't take advice from douchebag apologists for child abuse. You should take advice from someone, your current tact is less than effective and only serves to make you look like some form of spastic idiot with an agenda that you cannot credibility support. ==3. You have raised 3 kids. Congrats. I have raised 235. Sure you have. ==I'm not Dr. ==Spock either, he's an idiot, Dr. Benjamin Spock is the most renowned name in the science of baby and child care, and you are a douchebag apologist for child-beating. Gee, I wonder who has more credibility? ==I use CP when its ==appropriate, What you mean is, you hurt children when doing so will make YOU feel good. You are apparently a sadist and an incompetent care-giver and I hope someone is watching you carefully. Another nice opinion, supported with rhetoric and no facts. Not all that unexpected really, but certainly as foolish as the rest of your statements. Congratulations, you have tripped over the edge into fanaticism. Clearly, you are a danger to any child unfortunate enough to be within your foul reach. Better myself than someone like you. My children learn that there are consequences for their actions, and I dont wait until society imposes those consequences for them to learn the lesson. You advocate for non-CP parenting, ok, and therefore you must also advocate for psychological parenting. This form of parenting is a direct cause of our societies ills, rampant teen crime, growing child abuse rates, a general failure to accept responsibility for one's own actions, all of it. Again congratulations, you are one of the reasons that our society is coming apart at the seams. Ron |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:22:41 -0400, Ron
wrote: "Ivan Gowch" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:25:37 -0500, "Ron" wrote: == Child's death 'work of the devil' == == A 7-year-old girl becomes Toronto's 39th homicide of the year == == Aug 04, 2008 09:45 AM == == Joanna Smith == Staff Reporter == == Beverley Walker wiped away tears as she spoke about the heartbreak her == long-time friend Bernice Sampson experienced yesterday after learning == her 7-year-old daughter had been killed. == == "I'm sorry for Bernice," the 56-year-old woman said while sitting in a == coffee shop in the Queen St. W. and Lansdowne Ave. area with a group == of close friends. == == "She's not going to make it. She's gone. She was having a hard time == already. She didn't want to give her up in the first place." == == As she spoke, Walker spotted Sampson with a friend stumbling along the == sidewalk outside, clutching a school photograph of her chubby-faced == daughter Katelynn Sampson, who earlier in the morning had become == Toronto's 39th homicide victim of the year. == == Walker ran outside to meet her and the grieving mother collapsed into == her arms. == == About an hour earlier, Sampson had screamed and hurled herself at the == front door of a highrise apartment building at 105 West Lodge Ave. == where her daughter had been found dead. Her weeping friends had pulled == her into a car and tried to calm her. == == Katelynn had been pronounced dead in a second-floor apartment shortly == after Toronto EMS responded to a 911 call made around 2:30 a.m. == regarding a young girl who had stopped breathing while choking on == food. == == The paramedic realized quickly that the girl "had been dead for quite == some time" and that her body showed "obvious signs of trauma" that == contradicted the story, Toronto homicide Det. Sgt. Steve Ryan said at == a press conference at police headquarters yesterday. [...] ==1. This was not a case of discipline gone wrong, its a case of abuse. ==Child abuse. Learn the difference. Bull****. There is no difference between deliberately causing a child pain in the name of discipline and abuse, except in the minds of assholes who want to excuse the damage they do to the children in their care. Nice opinion, now prove your point. If I should decide to administer multiple blows to some part of your anatomy, Ronnie, you sure as hell would consider it abuse, you hypocritical sicko. Not likely. First you would have to have a reason, and second you would have to prove that it is a better form of correction than others that are used for the same problem. Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. Read Heinleins Star Ship Troopers for more info. Info on what - warmongering racist fascism as a childrearing technique? Do you ever even ponder the depths of your stupidity? ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:22:41 -0500, "Ron"
wrote: [snip] IG: == If I should decide to administer multiple blows to == some part of your anatomy, Ronnie, you sure as == hell would consider it abuse, you hypocritical sicko. ==Not likely. First you would have to have a reason, and second you would ==have to prove that it is a better form of correction than others that are ==used for the same problem. Sure. You would, of course, thank me for smacking you silly. == Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. Aaah, so I was right -- you ARE a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. 'Nuff said. Your opinions on raising children are obviously as twisted as you are, and therefore irrelevant. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself. -- Spankings do for a child's development what fistfights between spouses do for a marriage. -PTAVE ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
"Ivan Gowch" wrote in message ... On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 02:22:41 -0500, "Ron" wrote: [snip] IG: == If I should decide to administer multiple blows to == some part of your anatomy, Ronnie, you sure as == hell would consider it abuse, you hypocritical sicko. ==Not likely. First you would have to have a reason, and second you would ==have to prove that it is a better form of correction than others that are ==used for the same problem. Sure. You would, of course, thank me for smacking you silly. == Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. Aaah, so I was right -- you ARE a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. 'Nuff said. Your opinions on raising children are obviously as twisted as you are, and therefore irrelevant. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself. Just who do you think this type of advocation is helping ivan? Certainly not children, abused or otherwise. I mean gee, you cant even understand how much of a dork you are making yourself appear to be, much less the difference between CP and abuse. Your understanding of things sexual also seems to have severe limits, just how do you function in your society anyway? Do you just bumble from one disaster to another, hoping that somehow it will all work out in the end in your favor no matter how much your inept attempts to help tend to screw things up? Honestly dude, you really need to educate yourself on a subject before you come into a Usenet newsgroup and start spouting your own personal version of the party line. Here we chew up and discard ignorant little savages like yourself on a weekly basis. Read a book, find some articles on the internet, talk to your psychologist, do something to educate yourself on the subject. Come back when you have SOME knowledge, and please leave your deviant sexual history out of the newsgroup. I don't care to hear about your "belief's", come back with facts or don't come back at all. And please, leave your skewed idea of normal or abnormal sexual behavior in your locker, it only makes you look really stupid. Ron |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:39:10 -0500, "Ron"
wrote: [snip] R: == Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. IG: == Aaah, so I was right -- you ARE a sexual deviate == with a jones for inflicting pain. == 'Nuff said. Your opinions on raising children == are obviously as twisted as you are, and therefore == irrelevant. == Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself. ==Just who do you think this type of advocation is helping ivan? Certainly ==not children, abused or otherwise. As I noted, you are a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself and leave the adults alone. [snip] ==Honestly dude, you really need to educate yourself on a subject before you ==come into a Usenet newsgroup and start spouting your own personal version of ==the party line. As I noted, you are a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself and leave the adults alone. Getting a sexual thrill from causing pain to someone has to be the sickest, most dishonourable "kink" of all. You are a very sick mother****er and need help . . . fast, before you injure someone. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
"Ivan Gowch" wrote in message ... On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:39:10 -0500, "Ron" wrote: [snip] R: == Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. IG: == Aaah, so I was right -- you ARE a sexual deviate == with a jones for inflicting pain. == 'Nuff said. Your opinions on raising children == are obviously as twisted as you are, and therefore == irrelevant. == Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself. ==Just who do you think this type of advocation is helping ivan? Certainly ==not children, abused or otherwise. As I noted, you are a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself and leave the adults alone. [snip] ==Honestly dude, you really need to educate yourself on a subject before you ==come into a Usenet newsgroup and start spouting your own personal version of ==the party line. As I noted, you are a sexual deviate with a jones for inflicting pain. Discussion over, sicko. Go play with yourself and leave the adults alone. Getting a sexual thrill from causing pain to someone has to be the sickest, most dishonourable "kink" of all. You are a very sick mother****er and need help . . . fast, before you injure someone. Yes, looks quite like someone we all know and loathe. Unfortunately his ignorance is still showing, not that it surprises me any gregg, its fairly common among fanatics. Now, if he was actually going to "attempt" to discuss the subject instead of frothing at the mouth I might be willing to entertain the idea of a conversation with him. This also seems to be something he is not capable of, to busy indulging in his odd sexual fantasies to become an adult for a while and make an honest attempt at getting his point across. Another hallmark of the fanatic. Anyway, since ranting is all he seems capable of doing I think I can safely add him to my ignore list. Its where I usually put trolls, and is no less than he seems to want. An honest discussion would be nice, but as I have said in the past there seems to be a total disconnect from reality when the fanatics begin discussing this subject. Honesty is just not something they are capable of. ivan is no different. Ron |
When discipline becomes confused with punishment
On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:57:58 -0500, "Ron"
wrote: Ron: == Ivan, I am an advocate for CP for all ages. IG: == Aaah, so I was right -- you ARE a sexual deviate == with a jones for inflicting pain. == 'Nuff said. Sadism is the only truly dishonourable sexual kink since, unlike, say, rubber- or foot-fetishes, it requires that someone suffer pain -- either real or symbolically. This makes spankophilia disgusting, and its "advocates" like Ron perverts and sickos who should be closely monitored if they have anything to do with children. --- Hit your kid just once, and you communicate the message that it is OK to visit violence on someone -- as long as that person is smaller and weaker than you. Hit your kid just once, and that child will never again love you as much as s/he did before. === This is a story told by internationally renowned Swedish author Astrid Lindgren: There was a young mother who still thought that children would grow up spoiled if they were not given regular beatings with a birch rod. One day, when her young son had done something wrong, she decided the time had come for his first beating. She told him to go outside and pick out a birch rod for her to use. The little boy went out and was gone a long time. At last he returned in tears and said: "I couldn't find a birch rod, but here is a stone you can throw at me instead." Suddenly seeing things from the child's point of view, the mother burst into tears as well. The child must have thought: "My mother wants to hurt me, so a stone will do the job as well as a birch rod." The mother wrapped her arms around her son and they both cried. Then she placed the stone on a shelf in her kitchen, where it remained as a permanent reminder of the promise she had made to herself - no more violence ever again! ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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