Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
Hi All
Before I post my BA and BS on m.k.p I could do with some advice. Despite thinking I knew what I was doing second time round I am again having horrible problems bf'ing. After 4 days of the baby being unsatisfied after every feed I spoke to bf consultant who suggested my latch isn't right. I agree as the nipple, as well as being cracked and sore, is also going flat shaped. From what i can figure out ds#2 has a small mouth and so is having trouble getting lots of breast tissuse in his mouth. I'm working on the positioning so the nipple is towards the roof of his mouth but even so he just doesn't seem to be getting enough milk at each feed. He has refused to sleep from day 2, so just to get some sleep we have supplemented at night. I know this will not help his latch but no sleep is not an option, so it's just a temporary measure. From tonight I am measuring the feeds so will reduce it each night, but for now they have to stay. In the meantime I need to help in finding a way for him to get him mouth open wide enough to get a decent feed. I have been nursing almost non-stop in the day but that's not helping because he is too tired once he does latch to feed, so just falls asleep. I'm losing the will to try because I am so sore but desperatley want to keep going. I've used all the tricks to try and keep him awake but he does need sleep. He will sleep in the sling so will use that as much as possible so he's refreshed ready for the next feed. But the mouth opening is the issue I need help on. I'm off to the local bf'ing drop-in clinic on Friday but would really appreciate some help. Thanks Jeni |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
On Jan 31, 5:16 am, "
wrote: Hi All Before I post my BA and BS on m.k.p I could do with some advice. Despite thinking I knew what I was doing second time round I am again having horrible problems bf'ing. After 4 days of the baby being unsatisfied after every feed I spoke to bf consultant who suggested my latch isn't right. I agree as the nipple, as well as being cracked and sore, is also going flat shaped. From what i can figure out ds#2 has a small mouth and so is having trouble getting lots of breast tissuse in his mouth. I'm working on the positioning so the nipple is towards the roof of his mouth but even so he just doesn't seem to be getting enough milk at each feed. He has refused to sleep from day 2, so just to get some sleep we have supplemented at night. I know this will not help his latch but no sleep is not an option, so it's just a temporary measure. From tonight I am measuring the feeds so will reduce it each night, but for now they have to stay. First, I'd have them look for tongue tie as Sarah suggested. And try different holds - maybe the football hold? Is your milk in? Are you engorged - that can make it hard for them to latch. Try pumping just a little right before trying to latch on so you pull the nipple out and soften the breast some. When he's latched on, you can do breast compression to help him get more milk and get some hind milk which is fattier. DD1 was terribly sleepy with a bad latch her first week. The best thing we did was get a professional lactation consultant into our home and she really helped with our problems. You might consider a supplemental nursing system so that baby get's a bit more a feed and takes it from the breast. And if you supplement, try not to use bottles. They will likely mess up the latch more. DD1's problem was that she wouldn't keep her tongue down (it went to the roof of her mouth). We did suck training with our fingers and even used a bottle to help with her suck. Once she started getting sufficient milk she was more alert. The other thing you can do once baby latches is to use your thumb and pull down on his chin. This will sometimes encourage a better latch and proper fish lips. For the cracked nipples, I used ibuprofen which helped a little with the pain. The soothies refridgerated gel pads helped too. With DD1, my cracks didn't heal until I got treated for thrush (I had antibiotics during labor and a c-section, which I think contributed). DD2- the cracks healed when she started latching better. Good luck, let us know how it goes! Mary W. |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
On Jan 31, 7:56*am, "Mary W." wrote:
On Jan 31, 5:16 am, " wrote: Hi All Before I post my BA and BS on m.k.p I could do with some advice. Despite thinking I knew what I was doing second time round I am again having horrible problems bf'ing. I was dismayed to find that my second had a much harder time learning to nurse than my first. I had thought it would be easier the second time. After 4 days of the baby being unsatisfied after every feed I spoke to bf consultant who suggested my latch isn't right. I agree as the nipple, as well as being cracked and sore, is also going flat shaped. From what i can figure out ds#2 has a small mouth and so is having trouble getting lots of breast tissuse in his mouth. I'm working on the positioning so the nipple is towards the roof of his mouth but even so he just doesn't seem to be getting enough milk at each feed. He has refused to sleep from day 2, so just to get some sleep we have supplemented at night. I know this will not help his latch but no sleep is not an option, so it's just a temporary measure. From tonight I am measuring the feeds so will reduce it each night, but for now they have to stay. First, I'd have them look for tongue tie as Sarah suggested. And try different holds - maybe the football hold? Is your milk in? Are you engorged - that can make it hard for them to latch. Try pumping just a little right before trying to latch on so you pull the nipple out and soften the breast some. When he's latched on, you can do breast compression to help him get more milk and get some hind milk which is fattier. DD1 was terribly sleepy with a bad latch her first week. The best thing we did was get a professional lactation consultant into our home and she really helped with our problems. You might consider a supplemental nursing system so that baby get's a bit more a feed and takes it from the breast. And if you supplement, try not to use bottles. They will likely mess up the latch more. DD1's problem was that she wouldn't keep her tongue down (it went to the roof of her mouth). We did suck training with our fingers and even used a bottle to help with her suck. Once she started getting sufficient milk she was more alert. The other thing you can do once baby latches is to use your thumb and pull down on his chin. This will sometimes encourage a better latch and proper fish lips. I've found that doing this works best during a letdown. The baby is happily getting milk and relaxes his chin enough to allow it. If your baby is not latching well enough to stimulate a letdown, you could try pumping just until you have a letdown, then use this method to work on his latch. --Betsy |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
Jeni, what did you use to give the supplement? It's possible at this
stage that giving this by bottle will make any problems harder to get over. One tip I picked up at LLL last week is to show and vocalise what the baby needs to do to latch, open your mouth wide and make ahhhh noises, a couple of mums reported great success with this as the baby mimicked them. Other than that the kind of help you are needing with positioning and getting a good latch is really best done face to face, I hope you can get the help you need at the drop in (btw, if it's Rachel or Judy can you say hi from me!). Cheers Anne |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
Hi again
Thank you so much for all your advice!! Well, in the end I had to take a step back to go forward. For two days I used nipple shields to let my nipples heal, as I could not even focus on trying to fix his latch whilst in so much pain and sleep deprived. I really was ready to jack all in. I was able to relax as it didn't hurt to latch him on and really watch what I and he was doing. I practiced lots of things like the nose to nipple, letting his head flop back slightly so he could open his mouth wide, and really making sure I bought him to me rather than craming my breast into his mouth. Because I have the energy and no pain I also made sure I kept him awake during a feed so he really got lots of milk - so lots of burping and mid boob nappy changes. I have gone from supplementing 180ml to just 80 last night, so we will be done with the bottles in a couple of days. He now has between 2 and 4 hour sleep periods and settles much easier without a dummy most of the time. He seems to have taken the various different nipple types in his stride, and we have managed lots of successful latches without the shields today. The mw watched as I did it this morning agreed it looked right. His bottom lip still doesn't flange brilliantly, but his chin and cheeks are tucked up to the breast and the nipple isn't going flat. It's still slightly uncomfortable but as the mw says they still need to toughen up. So all in all it's going in the right direction and I can start to enjoy bf'ing again instead of dreading it. Anne: If you mean Judy S - she delivered my baby at home and was wonderful!!! I didn't get down to the clinic as I wanted to wait till I had done with the shields, but hopefully I won't need to know. But great to know they are there if I do. Sarah: the imagining the mouth thing really helped me understand why he needs to let his head drop back a little to latch on - so thanks for that!. I do use the cross-body hold for one side and it easier to latch, but because my other nipple points at a weird angle I use the rugby ball hold for that side. Odd but it works - apparently my sister did the same thing so maybe it's genetic. Also - I did try feeding some ebm with a syringe but he looked at me like I was mad and it just dribbled out, so we are sticking to bottles as he doesn't seem confused by them thank goodness. They are the TT ones so more like a breast than the avent ones I used with ds#1. All in all a very relieved and happy mummy and a much more content little chap:). Thank you everyone. Jeni |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
Anne: If you mean Judy S - she delivered my baby at home and was wonderful!!! I didn't get down to the clinic as I wanted to wait till I had done with the shields, but hopefully I won't need to know. But great to know they are there if I do. I'm having memory loss and can't for the life of me recall her surname, but I suspect it's the same person, I know she covers your area. We were in pilates class together for a year or so, then I would bump into her at breastfeeding drop in and I did a breastfeeding info stall at a community centre with her once, she made buns and iced them to look like breasts!!!!! Anne |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
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Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
"NL" wrote:
Ok, what are "TT" bottles? I'm really intrigued by your description of them being more like the breast. A friend of mine started working part time and her daughter will not take a bottle at all and she's worried about her fluid intake... (She works two full days and one half day) I don't know yet if the baby's taking fluids with a spoon or a cup or something I'll need to ask her when I see her again. cu nicole I don't know what a TT bottle is but I had good luck with this bottle: http://www.adiri.com/products_html/natural_nurser.asp when my son wouldn't take a regular one. Also, Dr Brown's worked well for a friend of mine. Good luck to your friend. -- Rebecca Jo Mama to Alexander 6/6/05 & Jack 7/7/07 |
Bad latch,small mouth, cracked nipples
On 4 Feb, 17:45, NL wrote:
schrieb: snip Also - I did try feeding some ebm with a syringe but he looked at me like I was mad and it just dribbled out, so we are sticking to bottles as he doesn't seem confused by them thank goodness. They are the TT ones so more like a breast than the avent ones I used with ds#1. Ok, what are "TT" bottles? I'm really intrigued by your description of them being more like the breast. A friend of mine started working part time and her daughter will not take a bottle at all and she's worried about her fluid intake... (She works two full days and one half day) I don't know yet if the baby's taking fluids with a spoon or a cup or something I'll need to ask her when I see her again. cu nicole It's a Tommy Tippee one. DS#2 took to it no problems. I have just bought some TT dummies which seem to work better too. I know lots of women have success with Dr Brown's when their lo is very windy. Jeni |
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