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-   -   Fathers the key to child behavior (http://www.parentingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=20755)

Paul Fritz June 1st 04 12:06 PM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 

"John Riggs" wrote in message
ws.com...
Thoughts? I'll tell you the same thing I told the last guy I worked

with
that complained about having to pay support ( and I don't mean the

abusive
support or collection systems ).
"Pay your support and be proud that you can.


Yeah right...............be proud you are being financially raped?

It's hard enough for your
kid,


Then it is the CP's fault

and you'd be ****ed if your ex withheld her support.


Nope

You kid will still
love you, regardless where they are, because you are their dad.


Had your head buried in the sand that long?

Try not to
miss any birthdays or special events and last but not least

"Smile"....those
are the things the kids remember".


You are assuming that the CP even allows you that


Yes, it's damned painful. Yes, it's a pain in the ass, but it isn't

your
kids fault.


Many times it is not even yourkid


What we really need to do is make the system work the same way for

both
genders ( it's getting there, just not fast enough ), and bust the

system of
abuse that is being leveled on ONE gender alone. ( I'm gonna get flamed

for
that ). The system is broke...and it needs a serious fixing.


The 'system is unconstitutional and immoral.


"justanotherdad" wrote in message
m...
The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to
"parent" their own kids hit home with me.

My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son.

This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how
prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my
attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic
studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good.

My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig
up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very
limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court
about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust.

It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me
financially.

I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father:

1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway."
Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support.
2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after
much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win
significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the
divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most
cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from
being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place.

And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child
support!!!

Thoughts?










NJ_Dad June 2nd 04 07:05 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.



"justanotherdad" wrote in message
m...
The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to
"parent" their own kids hit home with me.

My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son.

This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how
prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my
attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic
studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good.

My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig
up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very
limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court
about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust.

It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me
financially.

I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father:

1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway."
Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support.
2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after
much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win
significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the
divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most
cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from
being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place.

And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child
support!!!

Thoughts?





"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message

hlink.net...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...

"Joy" wrote in message
...
Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before

anybody
gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose

fathers
are
less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as

a
legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one

group
on
this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a

lot
of
studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a

parent
after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who

actually
had
a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My

"What
about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before*

the
divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't

have a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I

don't
think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids,

and
wondered if there are any such studies.
--------------------
I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from

home a
lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He

never
wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never
abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us.
After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his

place,
(couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he

tried
his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while

he
was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able

to
have 'adult' discourse with him.
He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally

able
to
bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I

spent
more
time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each

other.
He just had no use for kids.
So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the

kids
is
because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do

with
them.


I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation

and
relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes
into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to

parent
children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a
woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened

emotionally
by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive

fathers
away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do,

until
the fathers give up.




NJ_Dad June 2nd 04 07:05 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.



"justanotherdad" wrote in message
m...
The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to
"parent" their own kids hit home with me.

My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son.

This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how
prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my
attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic
studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good.

My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig
up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very
limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court
about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust.

It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me
financially.

I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father:

1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway."
Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support.
2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after
much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win
significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the
divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most
cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from
being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place.

And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child
support!!!

Thoughts?





"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message

hlink.net...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...

"Joy" wrote in message
...
Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before

anybody
gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose

fathers
are
less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as

a
legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one

group
on
this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a

lot
of
studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a

parent
after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who

actually
had
a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My

"What
about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before*

the
divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't

have a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I

don't
think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids,

and
wondered if there are any such studies.
--------------------
I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from

home a
lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He

never
wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never
abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us.
After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his

place,
(couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he

tried
his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while

he
was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able

to
have 'adult' discourse with him.
He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally

able
to
bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I

spent
more
time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each

other.
He just had no use for kids.
So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the

kids
is
because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do

with
them.


I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation

and
relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes
into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to

parent
children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a
woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened

emotionally
by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive

fathers
away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do,

until
the fathers give up.




NJ_Dad June 2nd 04 07:05 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.



"justanotherdad" wrote in message
m...
The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to
"parent" their own kids hit home with me.

My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son.

This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how
prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my
attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic
studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good.

My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig
up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very
limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court
about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust.

It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me
financially.

I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father:

1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway."
Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support.
2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after
much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win
significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the
divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most
cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from
being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place.

And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child
support!!!

Thoughts?





"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message

hlink.net...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...

"Joy" wrote in message
...
Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before

anybody
gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose

fathers
are
less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as

a
legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one

group
on
this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a

lot
of
studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a

parent
after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who

actually
had
a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My

"What
about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before*

the
divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't

have a
significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I

don't
think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids,

and
wondered if there are any such studies.
--------------------
I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from

home a
lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He

never
wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never
abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us.
After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his

place,
(couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he

tried
his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while

he
was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able

to
have 'adult' discourse with him.
He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally

able
to
bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I

spent
more
time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each

other.
He just had no use for kids.
So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the

kids
is
because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do

with
them.


I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation

and
relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes
into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to

parent
children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a
woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened

emotionally
by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive

fathers
away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do,

until
the fathers give up.




Rambler June 2nd 04 07:56 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 

"NJ_Dad" wrote in message
et...
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees

and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there

comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to

your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations,

print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and

complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.


Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a
great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why
divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide?

NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's
over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe
that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do
not have to deal with it.

Rambler



Rambler June 2nd 04 07:56 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 

"NJ_Dad" wrote in message
et...
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees

and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there

comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to

your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations,

print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and

complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.


Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a
great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why
divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide?

NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's
over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe
that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do
not have to deal with it.

Rambler



Rambler June 2nd 04 07:56 AM

Fathers the key to child behavior
 

"NJ_Dad" wrote in message
et...
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees

and
time from work but I finally have my son back.
What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's
costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend
a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there

comes
a moment when that bias can be broken. You just
have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to

your
son, and you have to be patient. You will have to
back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations,

print
and collect emails, and collect other evidence
of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on
time, and never ever let my fustrations get the
better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in
following up you can bring a moment of clarity to
a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and

complaining
about her misdeeds. You will have to take the
offense to make the nonsense stop.

Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says
your being intrusive or harassing. You know
the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need.
Everyone else's opinion is immaterial.

Just my two cents.


Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a
great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why
divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide?

NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's
over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe
that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do
not have to deal with it.

Rambler




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