Dual Language Program
 

I have enrolled my daughter in a public school that offers a Dual Language
Spanish/English class. Half the class is native Spanish speakers and half is
native English speakers. The children are taught from preK-2 in Spanish
through out the day except for language arts, where they break into groups
which is taught in their native language. In 3-4 grade they are then taught
the whole day in English except language arts is taught in the second language.
I did have some concerns before enrolling her in the program but I thought
that this year of preschool would be my trial year. I figured it was worth it
even if the least she learns is a few Spanish words and develops her social
skills. But now I am having to decide if I want to commit her to the program
for the next 4 years. In theory I love the idea of her being Bilingual,
Biliterate and Bicultural. This is the projected goal of the students in this
program. The children in programs like these have entered 5th grade not only
being proficient in both languages but are actually ahead in English then their
peers whom did not participate in the program. My main concern is that our
program is only in its first year and I don't have much to compare it to. I
was wondering if any of you have any such programs in your area or any personal
experience with these programs. I want to make sure I am making the most
informed decision. For those of you that aren't familiar maybe you could give
me some of your concerns, maybe they are things I haven't thought of.

Thanks,
~Kimberly
Mommy to Alexis Iliana 07/17/99 and
Emma Elidia & Aislyn Gabriela 10/01/02
come see us...
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aislynemma/

Dual Language Program
 

"KimandJuan" wrote in message
...

(snip...) The children in programs like these have entered 5th grade not
only
| being proficient in both languages but are actually ahead in English then
their
| peers whom did not participate in the program.

I'd like to peruse the evidence for this statement if you have it handy.

My main concern is that our
| program is only in its first year and I don't have much to compare it to.
I
| was wondering if any of you have any such programs in your area or any
personal
| experience with these programs. I want to make sure I am making the most
| informed decision. For those of you that aren't familiar maybe you could
give
| me some of your concerns, maybe they are things I haven't thought of.

I don't know about those programs but I can report that here in Calgary
where they have French Immersion public (though Catholic) grade schools,
they don't publish their English standardized reading test scores. That is,
you can look up ALL other public school reading and math test scores EXCEPT
those for the French Immersion schools. I suspect there is a reason for
that.

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls. I don't know if being fluent in another language can overcome
test scores when trying to get into college.

That's my take on it.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Dual Language Program
 

"KimandJuan" wrote in message
...

(snip...) The children in programs like these have entered 5th grade not
only
| being proficient in both languages but are actually ahead in English then
their
| peers whom did not participate in the program.

I'd like to peruse the evidence for this statement if you have it handy.

My main concern is that our
| program is only in its first year and I don't have much to compare it to.
I
| was wondering if any of you have any such programs in your area or any
personal
| experience with these programs. I want to make sure I am making the most
| informed decision. For those of you that aren't familiar maybe you could
give
| me some of your concerns, maybe they are things I haven't thought of.

I don't know about those programs but I can report that here in Calgary
where they have French Immersion public (though Catholic) grade schools,
they don't publish their English standardized reading test scores. That is,
you can look up ALL other public school reading and math test scores EXCEPT
those for the French Immersion schools. I suspect there is a reason for
that.

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls. I don't know if being fluent in another language can overcome
test scores when trying to get into college.

That's my take on it.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Dual Language Program
 

Sharon ) wrote:

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls.

I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more with
leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method whatsoever.
If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily helpful.
Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
nearly as much so.

I'd gladly drop fifty points off my SAT verbal score (which I could easily
spare) if it meant I could be fluent in a foreign language, anyway. But I doubt
it would mean doing that.

The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks I've
heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have been
complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the language
part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

--Helen

Dual Language Program
 

Sharon ) wrote:

I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost the
English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it for
my girls.

I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more with
leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method whatsoever.
If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily helpful.
Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
nearly as much so.

I'd gladly drop fifty points off my SAT verbal score (which I could easily
spare) if it meant I could be fluent in a foreign language, anyway. But I doubt
it would mean doing that.

The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks I've
heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have been
complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the language
part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

--Helen

Dual Language Program
 

Kimberly,

Well, I have no hard core data currently at my fingertips that would be
beneficial. As far as a personal opinion goes (based on previous research), I
would do it. My reasoning is that there are many benefits to dual language
schools other than just linguistics and writing. The "bicultural" aspect of
which you spoke strikes the strongest cord with me. Also, the strength a 2nd
language gives a child when mastering his first language is a huge benefit. It
sounds odd, but when studying more than one language, you get an insight into
your own that is invaluable.

My mother is an English teacher and I'm the first in my family to *not* choose
to be a teacher. My family and I discussed private vs. public, dual language
vs. traditional, college prep. vs. traditional, etc. Each time I feel the
pressure of doing right by the girls, they remind me that the main source of
success will be determined by the amount of help/motivation a child gets from
the parents regardless of the school. So, don't stress too much about it.
Yes, it will be important to offer them the best you can. But, you need to
tailor it to the child and also to what you will be teaching them at home on
your own. The very fact that you are concerned and involved will give your
kids an advantage that sadly many children never see, IMO.

Good luck!
Missy in Indiana http://hometown.aol.com/mhrust/overviewforng.html
Morgan Olivia & Julia Lucille 4/28/01 (YAY!)

Dual Language Program
 

Kimberly,

Well, I have no hard core data currently at my fingertips that would be
beneficial. As far as a personal opinion goes (based on previous research), I
would do it. My reasoning is that there are many benefits to dual language
schools other than just linguistics and writing. The "bicultural" aspect of
which you spoke strikes the strongest cord with me. Also, the strength a 2nd
language gives a child when mastering his first language is a huge benefit. It
sounds odd, but when studying more than one language, you get an insight into
your own that is invaluable.

My mother is an English teacher and I'm the first in my family to *not* choose
to be a teacher. My family and I discussed private vs. public, dual language
vs. traditional, college prep. vs. traditional, etc. Each time I feel the
pressure of doing right by the girls, they remind me that the main source of
success will be determined by the amount of help/motivation a child gets from
the parents regardless of the school. So, don't stress too much about it.
Yes, it will be important to offer them the best you can. But, you need to
tailor it to the child and also to what you will be teaching them at home on
your own. The very fact that you are concerned and involved will give your
kids an advantage that sadly many children never see, IMO.

Good luck!
Missy in Indiana http://hometown.aol.com/mhrust/overviewforng.html
Morgan Olivia & Julia Lucille 4/28/01 (YAY!)

Dual Language Program
 

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
| Sharon ) wrote:
|
| I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost
the
| English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
| requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it
for
| my girls.
|
| I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more
with
| leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method
whatsoever.
| If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily
helpful.
| Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
| nearly as much so.

Wouldn't it be an a priori reasonable assumption that the English language
vocabulary of student's taught entirely in English would be larger that that
for student's who have a lot of their subject instruction in another
language? Vocabulary is an important part of the verbal SAT. Students who
are fluent in a second language will ace the AP language exam but how will
they do on reading and math tests given in English?

(snip)

| The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks
I've
| heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have
been
| complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the
language
| part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

It seems to me the situation in the French immersion schools here would be
hopelessly conflated between "quality of the school" and "intrinsic merit of
French immersion when trying to test into top-tier schools." If it wasn't
then they would be publishing the reading and math scores. Why don't they
even publish the math scores I wonder? Perhaps its related the fact that
math is taught in French yet is being tested (later) in English? I don't
know.

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Dual Language Program
 

"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
| Sharon ) wrote:
|
| I can't see how working so much in another language can possibly boost
the
| English reading test scores. To the extent getting into a good college
| requires good standardized test scores, I probably wouldn't consider it
for
| my girls.
|
| I'd have said standardized test scores in English correlate far, far more
with
| leisure reading habits than they do with any instructional method
whatsoever.
| If anything, being literate in two languages would be extraordinarily
helpful.
| Latin was immensely helpful on the verbal SAT, and French would have been
| nearly as much so.

Wouldn't it be an a priori reasonable assumption that the English language
vocabulary of student's taught entirely in English would be larger that that
for student's who have a lot of their subject instruction in another
language? Vocabulary is an important part of the verbal SAT. Students who
are fluent in a second language will ace the AP language exam but how will
they do on reading and math tests given in English?

(snip)

| The main thing, however, is whether the teaching is any good. The folks
I've
| heard complaining about particular French-language schools in Canada have
been
| complaining about the quality of the schools, full stop, not about the
language
| part. But that's not relevant to the OP.

It seems to me the situation in the French immersion schools here would be
hopelessly conflated between "quality of the school" and "intrinsic merit of
French immersion when trying to test into top-tier schools." If it wasn't
then they would be publishing the reading and math scores. Why don't they
even publish the math scores I wonder? Perhaps its related the fact that
math is taught in French yet is being tested (later) in English? I don't
know.

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

Dual Language Program
 

lizzard woman wrote:

Why do you think the French Immersion public schools grade schools don't
publish the standardized test scores?

One thing that might be overlooked here is that we don't use SAT's for
our college and university application process. So the testing becomes
irrelavant.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau