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Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
http://www.vierascheibner.org/index....tent&Itemid=59
Vaccination Challenge This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd) and now prominent public campaigner, was sent to and published in the Medical Observer, an Australian medical newspaper, in February 1999. Medical Observer Pty Ltd Level 2, 100 Bay Road, Waverton NSW 2060 19 February 1999 Dear Editor, SIMON CHAPMAN TO TAKE HIS OWN MEDICINE On February 19, 1999, the Medical Observer published an article by Simon Chapman, in which he issued a challenge to the anti-vaccination movement in Australia. My response to his provocative article is as follows: If vaccines are such a blessing I challenge Simon Chapman to appear on television and allow himself to be injected with all baby vaccines, adjusted to his body weight by a doctor of my choice and in my presence. The vaccines to be administered to Simon are as follows: a.. DtaP: 3 doses within 4 months b.. Hib (any conjugates): 3 doses within 4 months c.. OPV or IPV: 3 doses within 4 months d.. Hep B: 3 doses within 1 month of each other. The time of the first dose represents month 0. There isn't a better way to demonstrate to us that vaccines are safe and effective than by Simon taking his own medicine. After every lot of vaccines an independent medical doctor and myself would assess Simon's reactions and the general state of health. Long-term reactions will be followed up for 3 years. If you do not publish my letter and/or Simon does not agree to this easy and safe demonstration, then it will show us all that vaccinators are dishonest and are afraid of their own medicine. In other words: put up or shut up. I will publicise this proposition and your response on the Internet to ensure that my response to Simon's challenge is widely known. Yours very sincerely, Viera Scheibner Ph.D Simon Chapman has been pretty quiet since this challenge and still is as of today. We issue the same challenge to all others in trusted positions of "authority" who actively promote the injection of these substances into humans, or indeed any other living creature. |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, "john" wrote:
This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd) and now prominent public campaigner, Another example of the logical fallacy of "argument from authority". "Principal Research Scientist" and "Dr" is one presumes proclaimed to add weight to her otherwise rather empty arguments. It would therefore be appropriate to consider them in a bit more detail. Firstly, she is not a Dr of medicine but a Geologist who gained her PhD in 1964. Her most notable contribution to science was a paper on "The Cretaceous and Jurassic Foraminifera of the Carpathian Klippen Belt in Slovakia" and her specialty in Australia was the Cretaceous and Permian Foraminifera of the Great Australian Basin in New South Wales. Scheibner claim to be a Principle Research Scientist concerns her training and experience as a Geologist and her appointment at the Geological Survey of New South Wales. She retired in 1987. She has never published a scientific paper on the subject of vaccination (or indeed any medical subject). Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian "perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle": |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Parry" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, "john" wrote: ad hominem |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Parry" wrote in message Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian "perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle": Bent spoon is a non award made by Pharma folk like Bowditch, ie people who flog or promote vaccines. Totally meaningless. As for Pseudoscientific, similar http://www.whale.to/a/pseudoscience_h.html |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:34:25 +0100, "john" wrote:
"Peter Parry" wrote in message Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian "perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle": Bent spoon is a non award To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding? -- Charles Berliner: Geschichte der Annaëlle http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:12:05 +0100, "john" wrote:
"Peter Parry" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, "john" wrote: ad hominem I don't think you understand the meaning of the phrase. Scheibner is using one of her old positions when in employment decades ago and her PhD inappropriately. Presumably she uses them to lend weight to her otherwise insubstantial articles. It is the deceitful use of her past history and irrelevant qualifications which is being commented on. One assumes she wishes readers to think her experience and qualifications give her some authority in the field in which she is writing. They do not. A Paleontologist is not usually the first stop when looking for medical advice and an expert on Permian Plankton fossil research is somewhat different from a medical research scientist. The quality of her amateur work since her retirement has, as you probably know, been subject to consistent criticism. Her inability to understand statistics is widely commented upon and Stephen Basser described her incompetent work on Japanese rates of SIDS as "At best sloppy, and at worst blatantly dishonest.” Notably, despite her self professed expertise in the field of vaccination she has not published a single scientific paper on the subject. |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:47:09 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:
Her inability to understand statistics is widely commented upon and Stephen Basser described her incompetent work on Japanese rates of SIDS as "At best sloppy, and at worst blatantly dishonest.” Stephen Basser is good. Stephen Basser in "the Skeptic", Vol 17 No 1, in "Anti-immunisation sca The inconvenient facts": http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 51. MMWR. Summary of Notifiable Diseases MMWR 1991 Vol 41 No 55. Measles Table 3 lists the number of cases of measles and reported deaths from measles for the years 1960-69 in the USA. 51 Year Cases Deaths Ratio 1960 441,703 380 1:1162 1961 423,919 434 1: 977 1962 481,530 408 1:1180 1963 385,156 364 1:1058 1964 458,083 421 1:1088 1965 261,904 276 1: 949 1966 204,136 261 1: 782 1967 62,705 81 1: 774 1968 22,231 24 1: 926 1969 25,826 41 1: 629 Table 3. Measles cases and related deaths in the USA, 1960-69. What these figures demonstrate is a period of no significant change in cases or deaths (1960-64) followed by a period of marked decline (1965-69). Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of epidemiology would look at these figures and hypothesize that something occurred around about 1963-64 that resulted in a marked decline in the number of cases and deaths from measles. What happened at this time? Measles immunisation was introduced in the USA in 1963-64. Dr Scheibner, not surprisingly, does not report these figures, but she does claim that: ...vaccination against measles is totally ineffective and measles occurs irrespective of and despite vaccination. 2(p82) [emphasis added] If measles immunisation is "totally ineffective" then I would be interested in her explanation for the above figures, and for the experience in Finland, where a nationwide immunisation program resulted in a 99% decrease in the incidence of measles.52 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /quote The column "ratio" I added. It is very interesting to see that change in values. -- Charles Berliner: Geschichte der Annaëlle http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Parry" wrote in message strange that you should be defending vaccination as you don't seem to be in the medical industry |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:46:55 +0100, "john" wrote:
strange that you should be defending vaccination as you don't seem to be in the medical industry What is strange about promoting rational thinking against bigotry, ignorance and witchcraft? Vaccination needs no defending. Anyone with intelligence and an open mind can examine the objective evidence and see that. Do you expect me to promote the opposite? Do you expect me to espouse a closed mind, a promotion of ignorance, a cult of celebrity where who says what is more important than the truth of what they say? A willful dismissal of anything which doesn't suit pre-conceived prejudices and conspiracy theories? |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
Happy Oyster wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:47:09 +0100, Peter Parry wrote: Her inability to understand statistics is widely commented upon and Stephen Basser described her incompetent work on Japanese rates of SIDS as "At best sloppy, and at worst blatantly dishonest.” Stephen Basser is good. Stephen Basser in "the Skeptic", Vol 17 No 1, in "Anti-immunisation sca The inconvenient facts": http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm That page disappeared with the recreation of the site. You can read Stephen Basser's article at http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
Happy Oyster wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:34:25 +0100, "john" wrote: "Peter Parry" wrote in message Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian "perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle": Bent spoon is a non award If it's awarded, how can it be a "non award"? To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding? She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award. http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, "john" wrote: This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd) and now prominent public campaigner, Another example of the logical fallacy of "argument from authority". "Principal Research Scientist" and "Dr" is one presumes proclaimed to add weight to her otherwise rather empty arguments. It would therefore be appropriate to consider them in a bit more detail. Firstly, she is not a Dr of medicine but a Geologist who gained her PhD in 1964. Her most notable contribution to science was a paper on "The Cretaceous and Jurassic Foraminifera of the Carpathian Klippen Belt in Slovakia" and her specialty in Australia was the Cretaceous and Permian Foraminifera of the Great Australian Basin in New South Wales. Scheibner claim to be a Principle Research Scientist concerns her training and experience as a Geologist and her appointment at the Geological Survey of New South Wales. She retired in 1987. She has never published a scientific paper on the subject of vaccination (or indeed any medical subject). Her most recent award was in 1997, when she was awarded the "Bent Spoon Award". This award is presented annually to the Australian "perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle": Actually, her most recent award was the 1999 Anus Maximus Award. http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/histor...1999awards.htm -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:20:07 GMT, Peter Bowditch
wrote: Stephen Basser in "the Skeptic", Vol 17 No 1, in "Anti-immunisation sca The inconvenient facts": http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/1997/1_immunise.htm That page disappeared with the recreation of the site. You can read Stephen Basser's article at http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm Thank you! a) May I have it for my site and b) can you reach Stephen Basser? Aribert -- Charles Berliner: Geschichte der Annaëlle http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:33 GMT, Peter Bowditch
wrote: To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding? She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award. http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm I will have to look for updates on the links for 2007 and 2008... -- Charles Berliner: Geschichte der Annaëlle http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
Bob Officer wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:27:04 +0100, in misc.health.alternative, "john" wrote: http://www.vierascheibner.org/index....tent&Itemid=59 Vaccination Challenge This letter by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd) Fallacy of citing a false authority. Viera Scheibner is a geologist, and a expert on Prehistoric Microscopic Plankton, not a person trained in the medical field. Past criticism of her abuses in the manipulation of stats has cast serious doubts on all of her claims and research. and now prominent public campaigner, was sent to and published in the translation is a loud mouth attention seeker. Medical Observer, an Australian medical newspaper, in February 1999. Isn't that like being published in the letters to the editor section of the newspaper? Not really something that even gets peer reviewed? Medical Observer Pty Ltd Level 2, 100 Bay Road, Waverton NSW 2060 19 February 1999 Dear Editor, SIMON CHAPMAN TO TAKE HIS OWN MEDICINE On February 19, 1999, the Medical Observer published an article by Simon Chapman, in which he issued a challenge to the anti-vaccination movement in Australia. My response to his provocative article is as follows: If vaccines are such a blessing I challenge Simon Chapman to appear on television and allow himself to be injected with all baby vaccines, adjusted to his body weight by a doctor of my choice and in my presence. The vaccines to be administered to Simon are as follows: a.. DtaP: 3 doses within 4 months b.. Hib (any conjugates): 3 doses within 4 months c.. OPV or IPV: 3 doses within 4 months d.. Hep B: 3 doses within 1 month of each other. The time of the first dose represents month 0. There isn't a better way to demonstrate to us that vaccines are safe and effective than by Simon taking his own medicine. After every lot of vaccines an independent medical doctor and myself would assess Simon's reactions and the general state of health. Long-term reactions will be followed up for 3 years. If you do not publish my letter and/or Simon does not agree to this easy and safe demonstration, then it will show us all that vaccinators are dishonest and are afraid of their own medicine. In other words: put up or shut up. I will publicise this proposition and your response on the Internet to ensure that my response to Simon's challenge is widely known. Yours very sincerely, Viera Scheibner Ph.D Simon Chapman has been pretty quiet since this challenge and still is as of today. Why give any credence to a person who is mouthing off outside her field of expertise and experience? The real question is why the editor even published the letter. Is there any evidence that the magazine did publish the letter? We only have Scheibner's word that it was sent. We issue the same challenge to all others in trusted positions of "authority" who actively promote the injection of these substances into humans, or indeed any other living creature. John If I looked in a dictionary at the word gullible, would your picture be there? I wonder why you even considered this person credible at all. Consider the body of her past work and then he current "research attempts". Read the criticism of her work by practitioners in the alt.medical field. and carefully consider not using her in citations. -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:58:45 -0700, Bob Officer wrote:
Viera Scheibner is a geologist, and a expert on Prehistoric Microscopic Plankton, If she messes up that the same way she messes up with vaccination, she must be a terrific "expert". -- Charles Berliner: Geschichte der Annaëlle http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_anna.htm |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Parry" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:46:55 +0100, "john" wrote: strange that you should be defending vaccination as you don't seem to be in the medical industry What is strange about promoting rational thinking against bigotry, ignorance and witchcraft? Vaccination needs no defending. Anyone with intelligence and an open mind can examine the objective evidence and see that. Do you expect me to promote the opposite? Do you expect me to espouse a closed mind, a promotion of ignorance, a cult of celebrity where who says what is more important than the truth of what they say? A willful dismissal of anything which doesn't suit pre-conceived prejudices and conspiracy theories? Yeah yeah, but vaccination is witchcraft, but I'd hardly expect you to own up to your real agenda, silly me. |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Parry" wrote in message ... One assumes she wishes readers to think her experience and qualifications give her some authority in the field in which she is writing. They do not. That is the fallacy of authority you are pushing. It is bogus http://www.whale.to/vaccine/authority.html A Paleontologist is not usually the first stop when looking for medical advice and an expert on Permian Plankton fossil research is somewhat different from a medical research scientist. The quality of her amateur work since her retirement has, as you probably know, been subject to consistent criticism. Her inability to understand statistics is widely commented upon and Stephen Basser described her incompetent work on Japanese rates of SIDS as "At best sloppy, and at worst blatantly dishonest." he would say that, if you want to see dishonest http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr54.html Notably, despite her self professed expertise in the field of vaccination she has not published a single scientific paper on the subject. Can't see the point, that is the fallacy of medical journal authority http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner_a.html medical journals are all allopathic generally speaking, anyway |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message To foul up things like Viera Scheibner does, is awarding? She also won the 1999 Anus Maximus Award. http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/scheibner.htm Anus is a good one from you |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message That page disappeared with the recreation of the site. You can read Stephen Basser's article at http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm Load of propaganda |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:59:56 +0100, "john" wrote:
but vaccination is witchcraft, When viewed with the brain of an Neandertal, perhaps. --- Gott läßt Israeliten 12000 Bewohner von Ai umbringen (Das Buch Josua, Kap. 8) *** http://www.reimbibel.de *** "Lock deren Heer aus ihrer Stadt * Den Raub, das Vieh dürft ihr euch teilen, und mach dann ganz Ai platt. * lass nun dein Heer nach Ai eilen." |
Vaccine Challenge Remains Unchallenged
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 06:19:33 +0100, "john" wrote:
medical journals are all allopathic generally speaking, anyway From the standpoint of an utter nut, perhaps. --- Gott läßt Israeliten 12000 Bewohner von Ai umbringen (Das Buch Josua, Kap. 8) *** http://www.reimbibel.de *** "Lock deren Heer aus ihrer Stadt * Den Raub, das Vieh dürft ihr euch teilen, und mach dann ganz Ai platt. * lass nun dein Heer nach Ai eilen." |
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