For many foster children, hard life begins as adults
 

test

A three-parter again folks..don't know why the newreader won't take
longer posts, but there yah go.......be prepared for some rich
entertainment though.

Part One of Three................





Through a fluke, Broward County receives more funding than it
should
for out
of home care. Yet the Grand Jury in that County found that foster
care
continued to be a major problem, despite the increase in funding.

To which, Kane replies:

But, but, but....Doug, not a few months ago you claimed foster care
was
going down....did you not. And that the "problem" was being
resolved,
did you not?

Hi, Kane,

The size of the foster care population is one thing. Funding is
another. I
said that through a fluke Broward County is receiving more funding
than it
should for foster care. And, no, I did not say that the problems of
abuse
and foster care bounce were being resolved.

Nor did I you said "bounce." Look at my statement above..not "bounce"
in it. We have had this conversation before, only a few months ago, and
you claimed foster care numbers were dropping...foster placement
numbers being "the problem."

And here we are, with MORE money, and the problem still in place.
Any
chance the problem is still money related? Like they have an abuse
problem in Florida, and Broward specifically that requires more CPS
services? 0:-

Well, I think that Florida taxpayers would need to know that a 340%
increase
did not solve the problem. You already know my opinion. I have
consistently maintained that money will not solve the problem.

You want to claim the money is exacerbating the problem, stop using a
correlation, (unprovable connection), and try some causal proofs. Got
any?

The problem is being driven by the increase...get that, INCREASE, in
the numbers of substantiated cases the BSO is conducting. It's the
county that went up, as I recall, while the others stayed level,
despite your prediction abuse substantiations would fall by using
"trained investigtors," r r r, which of course they did not have, and
had to hire out of CPS and off the street.

District 10 is now receiving $25,361,756 for out-of-home care,
according to DCF figures, which is a 340% increase over the 1998
allocation. This calculates to approximately $6,000 per child in
out-of-home care (foster care, shelters, relative placements,
and
group
homes), according to DCF's Administration. "

Despite the 340% increase in funding for out of home care, or most
likely
BECAUSE of it, DCF continues to employ caseworkers who are failing
to
meet
regularly with their wards or comply with other regulations.

This is were they go wacky. They think that foster care workers and
caseworkers are the same, so they are using Caseworker when someone
pointed out to the them FOSTER CARE WORKERS who do NOT do client case
work, aren't doing "casework as required." R R R ...and you fell for it
too...watch me prove it again, that there is a division of labor. This
one got totally mucked up here.

The
Grand Jury
notes that DCF, previously noted for its lack of accountablity,
remains
unwilling to supervise the work of its caseworkers.

You seem to have missed that investigations...by BSO increased.
That's
hardly the work of DCF, now is it. The LE investigators do the
removals, Doug. By their findings.

No, no, no. Read the paragraphs again, Kane. The 340% increase was
for out
of home care, not investigations. Out of home care. Out of home
care.
There is nothing in the paragraph about increases in funding for out
of home
care that says anything about any increase in investigations.

No, no, no, Douggie. The most simple logic, and recalling a fact or
two, tells us that because ONE program got increased it does not follow
that others didn't, and the fact? Historically? Easy. You know we
discussed the fact that all the four counties showed they had higer
costs per investigation by LEO.

Do you think there was no money allocated to pay those higher costs?
0:-

Give me some more of your logic. I could con'em at the craps table with
that and walk away rich.

LOL!!

Yes, Douggie. LOL all you wish, and know how very hollow it appears
after I point out your lapses in logic and fact. Unless they are in
arrears, they have to pay salaries for those investigations. Think the
sheriff's office waited to get paid?

Or are you so ignorant that you do know, "caseworker" that services
performed by one agency for another are billed the client agency? Even
the AG's office bills for services. Not only is it a required
accounting practice, it IS THE LAW in most states. Otherwise track is
lost of the funding streams..and that is, as they say, naughty.

"Unfortunately, foster workers, who are now referred to as Family
Services
Counselors, are often the lowest-paid, least-experienced DCF
professional
employees," the Grand Jury reports. "The demands on these workers
can be
tremendous. Although this Grand Jury has met several excellent
foster

workers, we have also seen the havoc a poor or lazy foster worker
can

create. Examples we have seen of the latter type of foster worker
a a
foster worker who failed to notify the foster parent of the foster
child's
potentially violent tendencies, knowing at the time younger foster
children
were in the home, and a foster worker who failed to perform a
proper
home
study prior to the placement of children in a home where a known
sexual
offender lived."

Well, I noticed this very paragraph, and something odd that brought
the
credibility of the grand jury into question.

In the next sentence, that you left off, they start talking about
this
foster workers errors, but in fact the issues quoted were NOT
foster at
all, but worker...regular worker issues of failure. Very confusing.
But
then you like that because you can post out of context and play.

No confusion, Kane. You have created a false duality that seems to
bother
you. The Grand Jury, the Independent research organization, nor I
suffer by
trying to base anything on your false duality. I would suggest you
learn
something about CPS field practice.

No, I've created no false duality. They have missed the boat, and then
you pushed into the water with YOUR igorance. If one reads through
carefully and knows and understands government and specifically CPS
organization and operations they know that foster families answer to
TWO kinds of personnel from CPS. The child's worker, which can change
in the wink of an eye, as children come and go, from many different
workers, and their own "worker." A foster care worker, certifier in
some states, various names around the country.

Just how would a client caseworker keep track of all the foster
families they place children with..they don't place all the children on
their out of home caseload with ONE foster family. They can have 20 or
30 or more children on their caseloads.

They certainly can make life interesting for a foster family, but any
complaints or problems goes back through two supervisors to the FOSTER
FAMILY WORKER, who does everything from accepting the first
application, to doing the home study, which includes crimcheck
handling, medical exam forms, handling references responses, financial
statement review, local non-crim bg check inhouse and out, home
inspection..then on to 90 day inhome checks and interviews with the
foster kids and foster parents (the kids worker, a seperate entity does
the 30 day or is supposed to), annual recertifications...a highly
complex bit with review of foster parent training for the year, another
home and grounds inspection, collecting water sample results in rural
well areas, ...deary me it goes on and on.

And how is this complex changing of the guard handled....different
workers..in fact one for every child is possible, with a foster home?
Which caseworker does the foster parent answer to, and when the foster
parents needs something that isn't specific to a child, who do they go
to? I'll tell yah. The foster home 'certifier' they are called around
here.

One each has about 50 foster families on their load...and it's not a
"caseload" but simply a work load. And that's all they do, all the live
long day, is ride herd on foster families.

You, sir are an ignorant twit that puts up a wonderful front, but
that's all it is.

Want some citations...again? We went through similar before on division
of labor in CPS worker units

I've got a few, but a real careful reading shows how confused this GJ
was...they are NOT experts in child welfare operations, nor should they
be. That's not the purpose of a GJ, or the people that serve on them.

Because of Florida's ongoing reform of privatization of foster
care
services, foster homes have increased and caseloads have gone
down.

A child in foster home does not lower caseloads, Doug. Anyone with
a
lick of knowledge would know, had they followed this over the past
year
or so, that the state had a great many open cases that were NOT
being
dealt with. Those cases are not close, but the remainder still
require
as much or more attention than they were getting before.

Of course a child in foster care does not lower caseloads.

Gee, we concur. Obviously we are making headway. 0:-

That speaks
nothing about the fact that foster care caseloads have dropped in
Broward
County, Florida. Considerably.

Well, we have to consider if that's a real drop, or the closing of
phantoms. Given the stories in the recent past about all those cases
that were not closed, that now are, it follows, if one actually KNOWS
CPS operations and field practice, that of course many of those were
foster placements that in fact had no kid in the placement. They had
gone home, as you know in many cases, and the file was not closed. If
it wasn't closed, then the fact of foster place in the real word was
skewed by recording a child as present when they were absent.

These are the little things that give you away, phony.

Oh. And the recent embarrassing exposure of malfeasance by these
same
contractors?

Yep. They are being held accountable. DCF employees were not held
accountable for their malfeasance.

Oh dear, here we go AGAIN with the insane, turned on its head logic.

You rabid anti Government types are full of this ****. Someone is not
accountable, but they are fired, they are demoted, they are
disciplined, and their malfeasance noted...yet somehow, "they are not
accountable." What would "accountable" consist of in your book, Doug, a
firing squad?

Some here seem about that rabid.

I don't approve of privatizing foster care. It's the point where
children are at most risk in the system, naturally...because there
is
no way to have 24/7 oversight. Putting another layer between the
worker
and this child is NOT good. And it's very costly...as the state is
learning.

Well, the article you cited speaks about the increase of funding that
went
to pay for the privatizing of foster care.

Yeeeees.

You say the money led to
improvement and cited the article.

Was the number of kids in foster care not reduced? 0:- Maybe I misread
you?

So, it appears you believe that
privatization has led to improvement.

No, that does not logically follow. "Privatization" is a general term.
So is "improvement." This is ONE such case, not all privatization.

Some privatization...as I've said in the past, is NOT working out..and
in fact in Florida we have examples of it. The scandals? You know, the
ones you folks feel you must post 48 times in a row for fear someone
might not notice and not be embarassed for being an "apologist." LOL.

It appears that going private is a good investment.

It depends on many factors. One of which will only tell in time. That
would be the safety of the children. You haven't noticed the number of
children that die or are injured in privatized foster care? I have. And
it's written about here. Is your lodged to firmly and your ears and
eyes blocked?

The quality review study found that caseplans were terrible.

Yes, and they, if memory serves, confused that with "foster care
horrors." It's not related to foster care at all.

Your duality.

You don't understand the "Quality Review Study" is a two parter. One by
a private firm, and this GJ report. They are in fact, in the GJ,
confusing foster family workers with caseworkers, because, as I've seen
many times before, the public, hell even the foster parents sometimes,
confuse the two. I've seen foster parents calling the child's
caseworker over their own recert paperwork being held up somewhere.
That's the newbie foster parents. And the client caseworker directs
them to please call their "certifier" the FOSTER PARENT WORKER for that
business.

DCF
caseworkers did not involve parents, children and other family
members to
contribute to setting goals for the plans. (This is such a basic
social
work best practice, that it is unlikely safety plans constructed
without
parent input have ANY effectiveness whatsoever).

Yep, and in states with money, Doug, they ARE involving more.

Oh, so it takes more MONEY for caseworkers to follow the basics of
their job
and involve clients in setting goals for safety/treatment plans?

No, it takes more TIME. Each case likely costs on average about the
same, but the time is the same for each as well, and if one has more of
them, eventually one runs out of time.

Your logic would have them having no case load cap at all, and being
held accountable for quality of work output. Brilliant, just
brilliant..."caaaasssseeeewwwwooooorrrrkkkkkeeeeer rrr" R R R R R
....phony.

At some point we know that quality of planning, setting, execution, and
plain old work, is going to top out and begin to suffer...it's not
malfesance or malpractice, it's mal funding....not enough money for
enough workers to hold caseloads to the standards set by national
review. Roughly 12 to 15 caseloads max for certain types of specialties
(you still don't think there are many of those, do you Doug? R R R )

An investigator, for instance, can have a lot of cases, because they
flow through their hands rather quickly. An ongoing worker, that is
doing the execution and supervision of the elements of the
caseplan...like those family unity meetings, etc. and appearing in
court, etc. and running shotgun on emergencies, etc. can't handle as
many.

An adoption worker can handle more, usually, if they are doing only
adoptoins, as was the case..and may be slipping now. Foster parent
workers, my "certifiers" can and do handle up to 50 with enough
experience, but often in the foster units it's divided up...new
applicants through certification by one or two workers in the unit that
do nothing else in busy urban practices, and ongoing certifiers that
have to do the day to day year in year out drudge work with the foster
families.

In that case, it's reversed. The new applicants foster workers can only
handle a few at a time, because the amount of work is so intense. I
listed some items earlier. They usually have no more than 20 or so at a
time, and many of those washout...bad crimchecks, bad financial
statements, bad health reports, etc. Or just get terrified during the
training when they start to glim on what the truth is about child abuse
and what it does to children and what they will do to each other, the
foster parents, and themselves as a result.

I hope you are remembering some of this, because I'm considering a test
smile because you seem to forget the education I've give you in the
past and keep insisting I don't know casework field practice, Silly
Boy.

"The Quality Service Review also criticized many case plans as
"cookie
cutter" and "one size fits all", citing numerous instances where
everyone
was assigned the same or similar tasks regardless of the relevance
of
such
assignments," said the Grand Jury. "It is very apparent to this
Grand
Jury
that too many case plans have been prepared without regard to the
foster
child or the child's biological family's needs or concerns. Even
more

apparent is the fact that no supervisor was conducting meaningful
reviews of
these case plans."

Sounds pretty bad to me. I notice you are cherry picking like mad,
though.

It is very bad. And the malpractice is going on in Broward County
now.

No it isn't. I Checked the hits I got were mostly all about medical
malpractice suits in Broward, and I'm still trying to find an actual
suit. Are are you just judging before the trial? Laying YOUR standards
on, when you don't even know case practice standards, and barely
understand policy?

their
biological
families. The study questioned whether the group of professionals
providing
services to a particular foster child possessed the necessary
collective
technical skills, knowledge of the family, and access to resources
to

organize effective services for families with complex needs.

Sounds like required spews. It's a very open ended kind of
statement.
One almost anyone could make about almost anyone else. I don't see
the
meat in the statement. It said the study "questioned." Not the
study
doubted, or found that it was not happening as it should. It was a
question. Phrased to appear as though they found something that
proved
services weren't happening.

It sounds like a very harsh criticism to me.

Of course...to YOU. It was a question. This is NOT a panel of experts.
They can't help but be a bit hesitant. They didn't even get it that
their national foster care expert was nonplussed at their question why
a foster care worker was not doing client casework duties. And you to
are confused about that.

YOu keep putting the spotlight on yourself. I guess if you learn enough
from me it will be easier to con the young innocent Kane of the future
that shows up here wonder what the hell you are selling and why. I
might die next week. But there will always be someone like me Doug. And
yah can't fool all of the people all of time, only some some of the
time. Like your two dupes, boober and greegor, the two second bananas.


They should, of course, as the grand jury, question a great many
things. I'm glad they do.

Me, too.

.....end part one of three...........

Pop wrote:
It's amazing you would think yhou could even hold a convo with any of
these
closed minds here unless yours is equally as closed.

As I said, this one wasn't being asked if I was on his dance card.

Others? Weeeeellll sometimes. 0:-

Do you REALLY think
anyone has any real interest in this group anymore?

Yep. If one is patient and the asses are sufficiently exposed now and
them some hopeful lurker pops out, Pop.

And they can always watch the action, of which there would have to be
some to watch, and private post to whoever they think would be most
helpful.

My concern is less for making earth shattering changes to the system
and more for some of us being here for parents who come a lookin'.
There's that kind of successful talent here the ****ants try to
coverup...because they are such losers and he is a consistent winner.
Many times over.

If the "newsgroup" can't survive this then let it go away by its own
weight. Prophecies of doom aren't really anything but more loser talk.

I just drop by now and then to see who's doing what and it's always
the
same - never anything OT.

If you think it's not OT then you aren't reading enough, or with
sufficient comprehension. There is litte going on that isn't ON TOPIC
these days. A dis**** sock or troll or two isn't anything to give
credence to. Most groups gottem, even the "informational" one's you
claim you are on your way to.

If ever anyone with half a brain steps in here
and decides to throw out the garbage, I'll gtive them a hand cleaning
up,
but until then it's not worth it.

I believe on my last dental x-ray certain angles showed that in fact I
have a complete brain, while back some years ago when I had a swollen
passageway for the nerve from the ear it was noticed that I have an
unusually large brain in certain portions.

Now on to some more informational groups.

Naw. That's either the whine of a loser, or the BS of a troll.

--
Let someone else do it

Yes, we will.

I'm retired!

Sure, you are. Tah.

Hi Kane,

You're sort of an enigma, aren't you? I found your post both good and not
so good, but it was all reasonable. Suspecting myself of also being a
rational human being, I decided to respond in kind (I hope). This used to
be an excellent group, a few years back, and I DO notice there are a few
good posts here and there; it just bugs me that the present makeup of the
group over the last few months must keep a substantial number of people
away, especially newbies. I know there are some very good forums, and I do
frequent them, but all in all, I prefer newgroups for manageability and
efficiency - thus, my interest in this one. There aren't many foster parent
ng's out there.
Yes, I am a foster parent; we do ages 12 and up, which turns out
naturally to be mostly 14-16 year olds. We also look for all the
Emergency/Respite care we can get, just because they provide variety,
education, and more rounded experience.
More comments inline. If you use search, look for "=== "; it's a
programmable keyboard:

wrote in message
oups.com...
....
Do you REALLY think
anyone has any real interest in this group anymore?

Yep. If one is patient and the asses are sufficiently exposed now and
them some hopeful lurker pops out, Pop.
=== I'm glad to hear that, really. Such a comment's enough to make me stop
by more often, just to see how things are; maybe even add a comment or two
here and there if I feel qualified.


And they can always watch the action, of which there would have to be
some to watch, and private post to whoever they think would be most
helpful.
=== What do you mean by private post? I don't think this group provides
such a function? Or do you simply mean to address them directly and go
off-group if it's appropriate. Personally, I don't approve of going
off-group in most cases since it deprives the rest of the group of seeing
possibly very important answers or things they hadn't thought of.


My concern is less for making earth shattering changes to the system
and more for some of us being here for parents who come a lookin'.
There's that kind of successful talent here the ****ants try to
coverup...because they are such losers and he is a consistent winner.
Many times over.
=== You must be some sort of an oldtimer here, eh? I like your attitude
and that's interesting enough to bring me back more often. I'm always open
to new resources and if this is one, I'll increase my interest to see if
I've been wrong in my assessment. Actually, your post is exactly the sort
of thing I was hoping would happen: Someone in touch with reality and the
goals of the group's purpose.

If the "newsgroup" can't survive this then let it go away by its own
weight. Prophecies of doom aren't really anything but more loser talk.
=== Agreed, but, groups such as this one are importnat, IMO, because there
aren't many of them. I recall when I was first getting into FPing and
looking for data. I could google millions of hits, but 99% of them were no
good or were extremist or otherwise unusable.

I just drop by now and then to see who's doing what and it's always
the
same - never anything OT.
=== I mis-spoke or something there; that makes no sense.

If you think it's not OT then you aren't reading enough, or with
sufficient comprehension. There is litte going on that isn't ON TOPIC
these days. A dis**** sock or troll or two isn't anything to give
credence to. Most groups gottem, even the "informational" one's you
claim you are on your way to.
=== Well, I sure don't see much that's ON topic, but then I do admit that
since I'm not here often, I see the whole gaggle of lots of posts all at
once. Other than learning who might be a "real" poster, it's pretty hard to
tell who's who unless it's a WexWimpy, who seems to use this for his own
news blog. I've looked at several of those posts and there's nothing in
them that isn't pulled from some news event or release somewhere. I may
have had the Wex... thing in mind when I said those things, not sure now.
Yeah, I know it'd be easy enough to killfile, but I don't believe in
killfiles because they mask problems one should be aware of. IMO, at least.

If ever anyone with half a brain steps in here
and decides to throw out the garbage, I'll gtive them a hand cleaning
up,
but until then it's not worth it.

I believe on my last dental x-ray certain angles showed that in fact I
have a complete brain, while back some years ago when I had a swollen
passageway for the nerve from the ear it was noticed that I have an
unusually large brain in certain portions.
=== LOL! Does that mean you have -other- large organs, too?

Now on to some more informational groups.

Naw. That's either the whine of a loser, or the BS of a troll.
=== You really should think more before you pull out the troll weapon. I
WILL respond to flames in kind, if it interests me at all, but I will never
initiate anything of the sort. If that's how you feel, then so be it; your
opinions aren't very important to me, which is as it should be, and
vice-versa.
FYI, where I went, though it's none of your business, appears from the
logs to have been:
spamcop.net, alt.msdos., als.dos.batch, home repair, and
alt.social-security.disability. Oh, and alt.home.pc.security.
If you consider those to be BS, then I feel sorry for you and have
nothing else to say. Even if I was going to alt.****.**** (made up, not
real I don't think), it'd still be possible for it to be informative, not
BS. Like porno, it's in the eye/mind of the beholder. I have a total of
about twenty groups I frequent, and about 8 that I actively participate in
w/r to giving helpful answers. Mostly I lurk, looking for things I didn't
know, and if I see a post that's been ignored, probably because no one has a
good response, I'll try to at least give that OP a lead to where he might
get more leads.

--
Let someone else do it

Yes, we will.
=== Yes, I bet you will, too. Don't be a stepping stone; stick up for
yourslef and your beliefs. It's looking like you decided to turn
counter-troll here toward the end, eh? Enigma comes to mind, esp when I
consider some of the other posts of yours that I have read.

I'm retired!

Sure, you are. Tah.

=== Yes, I am, arsehole. It's NOYB, but I'm "retired" for health reasons,
on disability, and I'd give my left arm to be able to go back to work. I'm
59 and housebound; so the internet's a part of my new life's goals to give
back to the world some of the good it's given to me.
I won't go further into that because I'm not looking for sympathy; hate
that. But I AM looking for decent people who want to help others and who
accept others into the effort.

It's no skin off my arse whether you care or not, or what any of your
opinions are; I don't kn ow you from Adam, but I do thank you for the chance
to spend a few minutes doing something interesting. Perhaps some other
decent people will also read this and come out of lurking for a comment or
two, and show the true culture of this newsgroup, not just the slums part of
the community.

Regards,

Pop

Pop wrote:
Hi Kane,

You're sort of an enigma, aren't you?

Not if you read enough of my posts. I have depth. I'm not one
dimensional. I can hate the mistakes CPS makes, foster parents make,
judges make. I can also point out why they are likely too without an
assumption they are a pack of evil jacklegs and assorted other
insinuations some folks use here.

Now and then there truly are bad people that get into positions of
power. The assumptions promoted in this and other ngs related to this
one, say CPS, repeately try to portray all parties that do excellent
work, dedicated, running sometimes at top speed until they drop, as
painted with the same brush of evil.

They have even promoted the idea that it's morally right to kill them
if they cross you. That would, very likely, as I respond to these many
things, make me appear enigmatic I suppose.

I found your post both good and not
so good,

We have something in common. 0:-

but it was all reasonable.

I suspect at times I'm not. At least not to some that lie and have
serious emotional shortcomings they need or think they need support
for.

Suspecting myself of also being a
rational human being, I decided to respond in kind (I hope). This
used to
be an excellent group, a few years back, and I DO notice there are a
few
good posts here and there; it just bugs me that the present makeup of
the
group over the last few months must keep a substantial number of
people
away, especially newbies.

Actually you are correct, when it comes to asfp. Wex sticks to his news
updates. A few wackos come and babble about health issues. There is
almost no postings I can see that look at systems issues, and offer
anything.

It would be enriched if foster parents came here more, but they get
viciously attacked, which is quite and insult, considering the work
they do as volunteers. Everything from being more prone to abuse and
kill than bio families, a flat out lie, and or being in it for the
money, a giant joke.

I know there are some very good forums, and I do
frequent them, but all in all, I prefer newgroups for manageability
and
efficiency - thus, my interest in this one. There aren't many foster
parent
ng's out there.

No, there aren't. Mostly folks have to go to webpage provided forums,
I've been told.

Have this unmoderated forum invites all kinds of vicious thugs, who
work hard to both maintain their ignorance, and foist lies about
fostering, while harrassing any foster's or the curious that come here
for information and exchanges of their experience.

Yes, I am a foster parent; we do ages 12 and up, which turns out
naturally to be mostly 14-16 year olds. We also look for all the
Emergency/Respite care we can get, just because they provide variety,

education, and more rounded experience.

I respectfully bow. My mother fostered for a time, as did my sister
much longer. I have what might be called an extended family by proxie,
very large. I'm "uncle" to many that are not blood related to me.

More comments inline. If you use search, look for "=== "; it's a

programmable keyboard:

It's quite a challenge, isn't it. I worked with 11 to 16 year olds,
boys, for some years in mental health treatment. You, of course, are
more likely to have seen much more serious problems. The treatment
centers screen OUT the more difficult....and you KNOW where they get
housed. 0:-

That's why I bow, most respectfully. See yah in comments below.

wrote in message
oups.com...
...
Do you REALLY think
anyone has any real interest in this group anymore?

Yep. If one is patient and the asses are sufficiently exposed now
and
them some hopeful lurker pops out, Pop.
=== I'm glad to hear that, really. Such a comment's enough to make
me stop
by more often, just to see how things are; maybe even add a comment
or two
here and there if I feel qualified.


And they can always watch the action, of which there would have to
be
some to watch, and private post to whoever they think would be most
helpful.
=== What do you mean by private post? I don't think this group
provides
such a function? Or do you simply mean to address them directly and
go
off-group if it's appropriate. Personally, I don't approve of going
off-group in most cases since it deprives the rest of the group of
seeing
possibly very important answers or things they hadn't thought of.

I agree, but sometimes they might wish to discuss an issue they don't
need a lot of braying jackasses attacking them for. You know, like
discussing the realities of the foster subsidy. The jackasses
immediatly ignore the real costs of caring for other's children and
bray that you are doing it for that new SUV you are
driving...forgetting that 5 or 6 kids take up rather a lot of room and
foster kids need a great deal of hauling.

My concern is less for making earth shattering changes to the
system
and more for some of us being here for parents who come a lookin'.
There's that kind of successful talent here the ****ants try to
coverup...because they are such losers and he is a consistent
winner.
Many times over.
=== You must be some sort of an oldtimer here, eh?

I think I'm coming up on three years.

I like your attitude

You may feel lonesome at times in this ng then. R R R R R

and that's interesting enough to bring me back more often. I'm
always open
to new resources and if this is one, I'll increase my interest to see
if
I've been wrong in my assessment. Actually, your post is exactly the
sort
of thing I was hoping would happen: Someone in touch with reality
and the
goals of the group's purpose.

Well, I've been lonesome here for a long time. Stick around. I spent a
great many years interfacing with the CPS establishment in various
capacities. They have a love-hate relationship with me. But I hear
occasionally they appreciated my directness and the fact that I was so
often right about the kids.

I did a confrontation for a friend in 1976, three years as an advisory
committee member on human services matters to a county board of
commissioners, a year of that as chair, about a year of workstudy with
a tandem practicum at CPS in 80-81, watched the development of child
protection, and made a pest of myself as a mental health worker with
children lobbying the state for better care both in CPS and our
custody.

In about 1990 I was asked to help the grandparent of one of my
charges...actually another kid in the neighboring unit for girls, who
was struggling with the abusive parents, and CPS, for custody of the
child. The rest is history...about a thousand such relatives in similar
perdicaments until about a year or so ago when I eased up.

I tend to know the system well, and especially the foster and adopt
portions.

Often I knew policy in the surrounding states better than a lot of
caseworkers.

If the "newsgroup" can't survive this then let it go away by its
own
weight. Prophecies of doom aren't really anything but more loser
talk.
=== Agreed, but, groups such as this one are importnat, IMO, because
there
aren't many of them. I recall when I was first getting into FPing
and
looking for data. I could google millions of hits, but 99% of them
were no
good or were extremist or otherwise unusable.

This is not any middle ground. It is the playground of the fringies
with serious emotional problems mostly. Ever work with parents of the
boys you care for? O:-

Multiply by say five and you have some of the nutso babblings here.
Even the ones that are educated and can appear rational.

It you and others such as you would stick it out and not let yourselves
be overcome by these twits this could become a valuable resource as it
once was.

I just drop by now and then to see who's doing what and it's
always
the
same - never anything OT.
=== I mis-spoke or something there; that makes no sense.

Never mind. It's less than important. I was probably being a smartass,
as I tend to occasionally when I get tired of slapping these fools
awake. Waste of time actually, as the brain deadness hasn't a thing to
do with being sleepy.

If you think it's not OT then you aren't reading enough, or with
sufficient comprehension. There is litte going on that isn't ON
TOPIC
these days. A dis**** sock or troll or two isn't anything to give
credence to. Most groups gottem, even the "informational" one's you
claim you are on your way to.
=== Well, I sure don't see much that's ON topic, but then I do admit
that
since I'm not here often, I see the whole gaggle of lots of posts all
at
once. Other than learning who might be a "real" poster, it's pretty
hard to
tell who's who unless it's a WexWimpy, who seems to use this for his
own
news blog.

Wex has a unique story. He was peripheral to the Rilya lost child
debacle in Florida. She's still not found but the ones allegedly
responsible are finally going to come to trial.

Wex thought he had the child in question in his care...the missing
child. I suspect he had good reason to think that, but being a decent
sort, cannot post the circumstances here...and there's a
confidentiality block on of course.

He pressed the issue..DCFS..pressed back and pulled his cert.

He has not let that deter him in his support of children and their
safety. He posts material more balanced in bias than any other poster
in this and another related group. Some of it is food for
thought...rather a lot, in fact. And get's forwarded around.

I don't know why he has the time, but good for him. I've badgered him
at times, but more for drawing attention to him so people will take a
moment to look at what he posts.

I've looked at several of those posts and there's nothing in
them that isn't pulled from some news event or release somewhere. I
may
have had the Wex... thing in mind when I said those things, not sure
now.

Wex is a bridge from the way it was, to the way it is now, with the
potential to once more become a valuable resource. While the rest of us
sort out the mess of the braying crazies here, he just keeps plugging
along putting up the news...news that might be worth referring to one
day, that drops off the media sources website after a week or so.

Yeah, I know it'd be easy enough to killfile, but I don't believe in
killfiles because they mask problems one should be aware of. IMO, at
least.

If you Usenet-google read, you see everything. I make it a point to
google read from time to time.

If ever anyone with half a brain steps in here
and decides to throw out the garbage, I'll gtive them a hand
cleaning
up,
but until then it's not worth it.

I believe on my last dental x-ray certain angles showed that in
fact I
have a complete brain, while back some years ago when I had a
swollen
passageway for the nerve from the ear it was noticed that I have an
unusually large brain in certain portions.
=== LOL! Does that mean you have -other- large organs, too?

My hands?

Now on to some more informational groups.

Naw. That's either the whine of a loser, or the BS of a troll.
=== You really should think more before you pull out the troll
weapon. I
WILL respond to flames in kind, if it interests me at all, but I will
never
initiate anything of the sort. If that's how you feel, then so be
it; your
opinions aren't very important to me, which is as it should be, and
vice-versa.

Bait.

And you got the message, apparently. Isn't the air a tad clearer now?

Considering what comes here a little checkup never hurts. Usually those
that can and do contribute can stand a little jab to see if a Troll
grunt ensues. You aren't a troll, obviously.

FYI, where I went, though it's none of your business, appears from
the
logs to have been:
spamcop.net, alt.msdos., als.dos.batch, home repair, and
alt.social-security.disability. Oh, and alt.home.pc.security.
If you consider those to be BS, then I feel sorry for you and have

nothing else to say.

No. A test poke. Nothing more. I've no malice.

Even if I was going to alt.****.**** (made up, not
real I don't think), it'd still be possible for it to be informative,
not
BS. Like porno, it's in the eye/mind of the beholder. I have a
total of
about twenty groups I frequent, and about 8 that I actively
participate in
w/r to giving helpful answers.

I could never keep up with that many, but I have one that I contribute
a lot too that occupies me mostly.
alt.support.child-protective-services. Drop by. If you think THIS is a
sinkhole have a gander there.

Mostly I lurk, looking for things I didn't
know, and if I see a post that's been ignored, probably because no
one has a
good response, I'll try to at least give that OP a lead to where he
might
get more leads.

--
Let someone else do it

Yes, we will.
=== Yes, I bet you will, too. Don't be a stepping stone; stick up
for
yourslef and your beliefs. It's looking like you decided to turn
counter-troll here toward the end, eh? Enigma comes to mind, esp
when I
consider some of the other posts of yours that I have read.

1. One that is puzzling, ambiguous, or inexplicable.
2. A perplexing speech or text; a riddle.

Hmm....and I thought I was being very clear. 0:-

I'm retired!

Sure, you are. Tah.

=== Yes, I am, arsehole.

Troll bait, sorry. Nice troll bait back at me though.

It's NOYB, but I'm "retired" for health reasons,
on disability, and I'd give my left arm to be able to go back to
work. I'm
59 and housebound; so the internet's a part of my new life's goals to
give
back to the world some of the good it's given to me.

Pooh. Sorry you are dinged out. Well, you can foster, so I wouldn't
count you out by any means.

I won't go further into that because I'm not looking for sympathy;
hate
that. But I AM looking for decent people who want to help others and
who
accept others into the effort.

This may not be the place, but hey, a little housecleaning, dusting out
the corners, a few chess moves I know that tend to can the fools, and
who knows?

It's no skin off my arse whether you care or not, or what any of your

opinions are; I don't kn ow you from Adam, but I do thank you for the
chance
to spend a few minutes doing something interesting.

You are entirely welcome.

Perhaps some other
decent people will also read this and come out of lurking for a
comment or
two, and show the true culture of this newsgroup, not just the slums
part of
the community.

Never can tell. My, I'm naive enough to think it's possible. Others
might refer to it as hopeful.

Regards,

Best

Pop

Kane

Pop wrote:
Hi Kane,

You're sort of an enigma, aren't you?

Not if you read enough of my posts. I have depth. I'm not one
dimensional. I can hate the mistakes CPS makes, foster parents make,
judges make. I can also point out why they are likely too without an
assumption they are a pack of evil jacklegs and assorted other
insinuations some folks use here.

Now and then there truly are bad people that get into positions of
power. The assumptions promoted in this and other ngs related to this
one, say CPS, repeately try to portray all parties that do excellent
work, dedicated, running sometimes at top speed until they drop, as
painted with the same brush of evil.

They have even promoted the idea that it's morally right to kill them
if they cross you. That would, very likely, as I respond to these many
things, make me appear enigmatic I suppose.

I found your post both good and not
so good,

We have something in common. 0:-

but it was all reasonable.

I suspect at times I'm not. At least not to some that lie and have
serious emotional shortcomings they need or think they need support
for.

Suspecting myself of also being a
rational human being, I decided to respond in kind (I hope). This
used to
be an excellent group, a few years back, and I DO notice there are a
few
good posts here and there; it just bugs me that the present makeup of
the
group over the last few months must keep a substantial number of
people
away, especially newbies.

Actually you are correct, when it comes to asfp. Wex sticks to his news
updates. A few wackos come and babble about health issues. There is
almost no postings I can see that look at systems issues, and offer
anything.

It would be enriched if foster parents came here more, but they get
viciously attacked, which is quite and insult, considering the work
they do as volunteers. Everything from being more prone to abuse and
kill than bio families, a flat out lie, and or being in it for the
money, a giant joke.

I know there are some very good forums, and I do
frequent them, but all in all, I prefer newgroups for manageability
and
efficiency - thus, my interest in this one. There aren't many foster
parent
ng's out there.

No, there aren't. Mostly folks have to go to webpage provided forums,
I've been told.

Have this unmoderated forum invites all kinds of vicious thugs, who
work hard to both maintain their ignorance, and foist lies about
fostering, while harrassing any foster's or the curious that come here
for information and exchanges of their experience.

Yes, I am a foster parent; we do ages 12 and up, which turns out
naturally to be mostly 14-16 year olds. We also look for all the
Emergency/Respite care we can get, just because they provide variety,

education, and more rounded experience.

I respectfully bow. My mother fostered for a time, as did my sister
much longer. I have what might be called an extended family by proxie,
very large. I'm "uncle" to many that are not blood related to me.

More comments inline. If you use search, look for "=== "; it's a

programmable keyboard:

It's quite a challenge, isn't it. I worked with 11 to 16 year olds,
boys, for some years in mental health treatment. You, of course, are
more likely to have seen much more serious problems. The treatment
centers screen OUT the more difficult....and you KNOW where they get
housed. 0:-

That's why I bow, most respectfully. See yah in comments below.

wrote in message
oups.com...
...
Do you REALLY think
anyone has any real interest in this group anymore?

Yep. If one is patient and the asses are sufficiently exposed now
and
them some hopeful lurker pops out, Pop.
=== I'm glad to hear that, really. Such a comment's enough to make
me stop
by more often, just to see how things are; maybe even add a comment
or two
here and there if I feel qualified.


And they can always watch the action, of which there would have to
be
some to watch, and private post to whoever they think would be most
helpful.
=== What do you mean by private post? I don't think this group
provides
such a function? Or do you simply mean to address them directly and
go
off-group if it's appropriate. Personally, I don't approve of going
off-group in most cases since it deprives the rest of the group of
seeing
possibly very important answers or things they hadn't thought of.

I agree, but sometimes they might wish to discuss an issue they don't
need a lot of braying jackasses attacking them for. You know, like
discussing the realities of the foster subsidy. The jackasses
immediatly ignore the real costs of caring for other's children and
bray that you are doing it for that new SUV you are
driving...forgetting that 5 or 6 kids take up rather a lot of room and
foster kids need a great deal of hauling.

My concern is less for making earth shattering changes to the
system
and more for some of us being here for parents who come a lookin'.
There's that kind of successful talent here the ****ants try to
coverup...because they are such losers and he is a consistent
winner.
Many times over.
=== You must be some sort of an oldtimer here, eh?

I think I'm coming up on three years.

I like your attitude

You may feel lonesome at times in this ng then. R R R R R

and that's interesting enough to bring me back more often. I'm
always open
to new resources and if this is one, I'll increase my interest to see
if
I've been wrong in my assessment. Actually, your post is exactly the
sort
of thing I was hoping would happen: Someone in touch with reality
and the
goals of the group's purpose.

Well, I've been lonesome here for a long time. Stick around. I spent a
great many years interfacing with the CPS establishment in various
capacities. They have a love-hate relationship with me. But I hear
occasionally they appreciated my directness and the fact that I was so
often right about the kids.

I did a confrontation for a friend in 1976, three years as an advisory
committee member on human services matters to a county board of
commissioners, a year of that as chair, about a year of workstudy with
a tandem practicum at CPS in 80-81, watched the development of child
protection, and made a pest of myself as a mental health worker with
children lobbying the state for better care both in CPS and our
custody.

In about 1990 I was asked to help the grandparent of one of my
charges...actually another kid in the neighboring unit for girls, who
was struggling with the abusive parents, and CPS, for custody of the
child. The rest is history...about a thousand such relatives in similar
perdicaments until about a year or so ago when I eased up.

I tend to know the system well, and especially the foster and adopt
portions.

Often I knew policy in the surrounding states better than a lot of
caseworkers.

If the "newsgroup" can't survive this then let it go away by its
own
weight. Prophecies of doom aren't really anything but more loser
talk.
=== Agreed, but, groups such as this one are importnat, IMO, because
there
aren't many of them. I recall when I was first getting into FPing
and
looking for data. I could google millions of hits, but 99% of them
were no
good or were extremist or otherwise unusable.

This is not any middle ground. It is the playground of the fringies
with serious emotional problems mostly. Ever work with parents of the
boys you care for? O:-

Multiply by say five and you have some of the nutso babblings here.
Even the ones that are educated and can appear rational.

It you and others such as you would stick it out and not let yourselves
be overcome by these twits this could become a valuable resource as it
once was.

I just drop by now and then to see who's doing what and it's
always
the
same - never anything OT.
=== I mis-spoke or something there; that makes no sense.

Never mind. It's less than important. I was probably being a smartass,
as I tend to occasionally when I get tired of slapping these fools
awake. Waste of time actually, as the brain deadness hasn't a thing to
do with being sleepy.

If you think it's not OT then you aren't reading enough, or with
sufficient comprehension. There is litte going on that isn't ON
TOPIC
these days. A dis**** sock or troll or two isn't anything to give
credence to. Most groups gottem, even the "informational" one's you
claim you are on your way to.
=== Well, I sure don't see much that's ON topic, but then I do admit
that
since I'm not here often, I see the whole gaggle of lots of posts all
at
once. Other than learning who might be a "real" poster, it's pretty
hard to
tell who's who unless it's a WexWimpy, who seems to use this for his
own
news blog.

Wex has a unique story. He was peripheral to the Rilya lost child
debacle in Florida. She's still not found but the ones allegedly
responsible are finally going to come to trial.

Wex thought he had the child in question in his care...the missing
child. I suspect he had good reason to think that, but being a decent
sort, cannot post the circumstances here...and there's a
confidentiality block on of course.

He pressed the issue..DCFS..pressed back and pulled his cert.

He has not let that deter him in his support of children and their
safety. He posts material more balanced in bias than any other poster
in this and another related group. Some of it is food for
thought...rather a lot, in fact. And get's forwarded around.

I don't know why he has the time, but good for him. I've badgered him
at times, but more for drawing attention to him so people will take a
moment to look at what he posts.

I've looked at several of those posts and there's nothing in
them that isn't pulled from some news event or release somewhere. I
may
have had the Wex... thing in mind when I said those things, not sure
now.

Wex is a bridge from the way it was, to the way it is now, with the
potential to once more become a valuable resource. While the rest of us
sort out the mess of the braying crazies here, he just keeps plugging
along putting up the news...news that might be worth referring to one
day, that drops off the media sources website after a week or so.

Yeah, I know it'd be easy enough to killfile, but I don't believe in
killfiles because they mask problems one should be aware of. IMO, at
least.

If you Usenet-google read, you see everything. I make it a point to
google read from time to time.

If ever anyone with half a brain steps in here
and decides to throw out the garbage, I'll gtive them a hand
cleaning
up,
but until then it's not worth it.

I believe on my last dental x-ray certain angles showed that in
fact I
have a complete brain, while back some years ago when I had a
swollen
passageway for the nerve from the ear it was noticed that I have an
unusually large brain in certain portions.
=== LOL! Does that mean you have -other- large organs, too?

My hands?

Now on to some more informational groups.

Naw. That's either the whine of a loser, or the BS of a troll.
=== You really should think more before you pull out the troll
weapon. I
WILL respond to flames in kind, if it interests me at all, but I will
never
initiate anything of the sort. If that's how you feel, then so be
it; your
opinions aren't very important to me, which is as it should be, and
vice-versa.

Bait.

And you got the message, apparently. Isn't the air a tad clearer now?

Considering what comes here a little checkup never hurts. Usually those
that can and do contribute can stand a little jab to see if a Troll
grunt ensues. You aren't a troll, obviously.

FYI, where I went, though it's none of your business, appears from
the
logs to have been:
spamcop.net, alt.msdos., als.dos.batch, home repair, and
alt.social-security.disability. Oh, and alt.home.pc.security.
If you consider those to be BS, then I feel sorry for you and have

nothing else to say.

No. A test poke. Nothing more. I've no malice.

Even if I was going to alt.****.**** (made up, not
real I don't think), it'd still be possible for it to be informative,
not
BS. Like porno, it's in the eye/mind of the beholder. I have a
total of
about twenty groups I frequent, and about 8 that I actively
participate in
w/r to giving helpful answers.

I could never keep up with that many, but I have one that I contribute
a lot too that occupies me mostly.
alt.support.child-protective-services. Drop by. If you think THIS is a
sinkhole have a gander there.

Mostly I lurk, looking for things I didn't
know, and if I see a post that's been ignored, probably because no
one has a
good response, I'll try to at least give that OP a lead to where he
might
get more leads.

--
Let someone else do it

Yes, we will.
=== Yes, I bet you will, too. Don't be a stepping stone; stick up
for
yourslef and your beliefs. It's looking like you decided to turn
counter-troll here toward the end, eh? Enigma comes to mind, esp
when I
consider some of the other posts of yours that I have read.

1. One that is puzzling, ambiguous, or inexplicable.
2. A perplexing speech or text; a riddle.

Hmm....and I thought I was being very clear. 0:-

I'm retired!

Sure, you are. Tah.

=== Yes, I am, arsehole.

Troll bait, sorry. Nice troll bait back at me though.

It's NOYB, but I'm "retired" for health reasons,
on disability, and I'd give my left arm to be able to go back to
work. I'm
59 and housebound; so the internet's a part of my new life's goals to
give
back to the world some of the good it's given to me.

Pooh. Sorry you are dinged out. Well, you can foster, so I wouldn't
count you out by any means.

I won't go further into that because I'm not looking for sympathy;
hate
that. But I AM looking for decent people who want to help others and
who
accept others into the effort.

This may not be the place, but hey, a little housecleaning, dusting out
the corners, a few chess moves I know that tend to can the fools, and
who knows?

It's no skin off my arse whether you care or not, or what any of your

opinions are; I don't kn ow you from Adam, but I do thank you for the
chance
to spend a few minutes doing something interesting.

You are entirely welcome.

Perhaps some other
decent people will also read this and come out of lurking for a
comment or
two, and show the true culture of this newsgroup, not just the slums
part of
the community.

Never can tell. Myself, I'm naive enough to think it's possible. Others
might refer to me as hopeful. As time passes the former disability
looks more likely than the latter quality of character. Makes me feel
foolish sometimes to continue to hope...but there you have it.

I've won before. 0:-

Regards,

Best

Pop

Kane