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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
This is so painful and I am so ashamed and hurt it is difficult to talk
about it but you are my family of choice and have been with me through thick and thin for over four years now and I love you all and need you now more than ever as my "real" family is very unhealthy for me and my son and not there for us anyway and have caused part of the problem. I'm going to tell the whole story so you get the whole picture so as best to understand the situation so that perhaps you will understand how my son and I got to the crisis point we are at and hopefully avoid judging and condemning me, please don't do that right now. I grew up with a mother who was emotionally vacant and neglectful to the point that I nearly died as a child of dehydration and abused my whole life by my father and his crazy family. I also inherited the genetic mental illness but I also inherited the high intelligence and creativity on my mother's side, but alas, not the money ;-) (It is my life's dream to study the genetics of psychiatric illnesses and I am in school now pursuing that.) But, and this is a huge one. There is something else that has been passed on. My son watched me be abused by men when he was very young. I don't remember a lot of my childhood so it's hard for me to relate to what all he can remember of his but somehow over the last two years my precious little boy has become very abusive to me emotionally and verbally and it has reached a crisis point to where he can not live with me. He is 16. I haven't been able to control him since he got bigger than me two years ago. He stopped going to school regularly, even though he is very intelligent and I taught him everything I know about computers and have given him everything I possibly can. He says he will go back next year and finish high school and I hope he does but he has a lot of pressure from the underachievers we live around who do not have his intelligence or skills. I know I haven't been able to show love for him like "normal" but I have loved him better than I was loved and I have not physically abused him, that I am proud of, especially for having bipolar disorder. I have done my best to take care of my mental health ever since I recognized that there was something wrong with me, looking for the right pills, since I was 18 and old enough to have my own insurance since my mother believes I am demon possessed and just need to go back to church. Just last year I finally got the right anti-depressant and am finally awake! All the others made me tired and fat. I could go on for paragraphs about side effects... But mainly being asleep is the one that affected my poor child the worst, I know what it feels like to be ignored, that hurts worst than any beating, in my opinion. Psychic scars hurt and I can see that I have hell to pay for what my mental illness and the abuse that has been heaped on me in the past has done to my little boy who stands before me an angry young man. The thing is, I am tired and small and hurt and out of everyone, I am the only one who stood by him all these years, why does he hate me so much that he wants to punish me so badly? Everyday he calls me names and I tell him not to talk to me like that but he goes on like I didn't say anything, he drives my car without a license, he smokes pot and cigarettes and drinks and tells me the child support that I get, that I finally get after all these years, is free money, that I don't earn it, that I don't do anything because keeping a roof over his head, the lights on, food in the fridge and on the table and tv in his room and internet on his computer and gas in the car isn't work, and fixing computers isn't anything, even he can do that. I used to have such confidence and sometimes I still do but then I come home. My college education means nothing to him even though he was THERE. I took him to the University of Wisconsin with me when he was five, he went to daycare and then kindergarten right there on campus, he got a wonderful, radical education. I've tried so hard to expose him to literature and art and politics and music and gave him all these computer skills that he is so proud of. He has new clothes, I don't. His computer runs 5 times faster than mine and has all the new stuff. I knew when I had him that I didn't have what it takes to be a mother, much less a young, single mother and I wanted to give him up for adoption but my mother and my aunt (the god squad) ripped up the papers "you're not giving away our grand baby" but after he was born it was all "you made your bed, you lie in it" "we raised ours alone, you can do it too." "you broke God's law (fornication), all these things that you are suffering, this is your punishment." That last one, my mom said that to me again just last month. She wasn't being cruel, she really believes that. And unfortunately, apparently so do I. It is not helpful. I didn't know that I had a mental illness until after he was born. I didn't know that it was genetic until a few years ago and when I found that out I had my tubes tied, it stops with me. I don't bother telling my mother any of this for obvious reasons or my aunt as they both are already old and overwhelmed with ill health and caring for other family members who are having health problems. I have no other family. His father lives far away and resents his existence and burden of child support and has his "own" family to support so I don't think he will take him in or be a good role model either. I have been calling the foster care people for two weeks and they have been giving me the run around while my son gets more and more aggressive and I get more and more frustrated. Friday I called 911 and said come get him before I hurt him but they said I was stuck with him until he is 18 and put me through to some intake worker who said she would mail me an appointment. I said we did not have time to wait for the mail and she hung up on me. I started calling numbers at random that were similar to hers and got a case worker who put me through to her supervisor but it was voice mail so I left a message. Sunday I got gas and my son insisted on driving and I was too tired and defeated to argue even though he doesn't have a license and puts up a fight every time I try to get him to get a permit, anyway we get to the store with the last of our money and he wants pop but we only have enough for the gas and a 99 cent mocha each. But I break down and get him the damn pop. (This is a side of me none of you have seen before isn't it.) Anyway, I come out of the store and he yells across the lot, "That's not the kind of pop I want you dumb crack!" I stare at him in shock. How did it get this bad? How is it that I haven't had a man in my life for 7 years since the last guy broke my back and I decided to focus on my son and yet he still turned into one of "them"? (Now someone will say "she has an us and them mentality, it's her fault. burn the witch. I have a them and them mentality. men who abuse and men who do not feel the need to offend. but burn away, i'm on fire anyway) How did I screw this up, the only thing that really matters? And who is going to save my soul? I point out that this is the same pop I got last week that he complained that I didn't get enough of back when we had money. This is all so familiar. I have made these same apologetic rationalizations to numerous abusive men in the past before and it is pointless. It has to stop. It has to stop with me. I get up and take the pop back into the store for a refund. The lady looks at me like I am crazy (!) but gives me my dollar fifty back and for the reason why I write down 'ungrateful kid' and she laughs with me. My son is irate and I hear about it all the way home how crazy I am while I tell him how he just isn't used to me standing up for myself and holding him accountable but I plan to do it more often. I will pay, I will pay big for this, but I have no idea yet. His friend comes over needing his computer fixed. Word travels fast when you fix computers for free. He asks if he can use my computer to format his friends hard drive. Hell no! That is taking a big risk that you will accidentally lose the data on your hard drive, take that risk on your own computer or, better yet, take that risk on your friend's computer. Here, take my windows '98 cd... and I advise him how to do it. I work on my webpage a little and post some of my poems and my newest song. I am taking physics and have a lot of studying to do, I love going to college, I am good at it. My computer is my life. I have been a computer technician since 1996, it is my link to this news group and my email which is an important social need and to the Internet where I am constantly keeping my overactive brain busy doing research learning and helping people with my knowledge and all my poems and songs and webpage and 2 years worth of data are on my 30 gigabyte hard drive. Monday I came home from school and turned on my computer and nothing happened... it wouldn't boot. It was as if my son had killed my dog. For you guys out there, imagine you had a prized Porsche that you cherished and showed off and took care of every day and your son got mad at you, had been mad at you for a lot of things that you just didn't know how to fix and you came home one day and your son asked if he could drive it and you said no and you came home and your Porsche was sitting in your drive way all crashed up, how angry would you be? I couldn't breathe. I couldn't speak. I got in my car and drove to his friend's house and he got in and I took him to the woods near there and told him how he hurt me and he had no right, he had crossed the last boundary, he no longer lived at my house and that when he went and told everyone how crazy I was to be sure and tell them what he had done. I did not hit him or touch him at all, he was not scared of me in any way, (he is a foot taller than me and much faster and I can't run, I have two compressed disks in my lower back) he was annoyed. I said I was going to smash up his computer but he pointed out that his is worth way more than mine and I'd just have to pay for it so what's the sense in that. He walked back to the car before I did and tried to use his keys to get in but I got in and went home and sat down and called 911 again. They put me through to crisis and I told them again how much worse things had gotten and to please find some place for my son to live because he could not live with me, he was hurting me and I was having a hard time holding it together and I did not want it to escalate either way. Do something! I have a counselor, he has a counselor, it's going to take more than that. His constant abuse is aggravating my PTSD and I don't want to be abusive to him. I've been accused of having a victim mentality on here before, I think maybe that is what has contributed to how he has learned to treat me so please don't beat me up about that, certainly that will make things worse. So, the police came to my house. I was surprised to see them as I thought I had handled it pretty well, having gotten my point across without resorting to violence but what I didn't know is that my son had told them that I tried to kill him. He said this in front of my only friend, who knows me really well, but they did not listen to her even though she is an adult, they listened to him, presumably because although he is a minor he looks like a man. So now those who have a history of picking on me for "having issues with men" can start blaming this on me for that. Or maybe it's all Eve's fault, but I already apologized for that at gunpoint when I was married to my psycho ex-husband in front of my son when he was three, he remembers that better than I do, I've gotten really good at dissociating (leaving your body when your body and spirit find it necessary to take a break from each other for awhile). And before you blame me for getting involved with abusive men, they are not abusive at first, it is like a spider's web. Very beautiful and intricate and silky soft and smooth but damned difficult to get out of and the harder you try to get out of it the more stuck you are. Precious few escape. And I have worked very hard at escaping, I attract psychos, they like my fiery personality and my lovingness combination and I never know they are a psycho until it's too late. I did abstain for all those years but I guess that was too late. Well, this is the biggest pity party I've had in a long time. Probably because I haven't had this much pain come to the surface in years. So, the police, once again, reinforced my fear and loathing of them although they were pretty kind and respectful when they went about it by NOT helping me. I have learned repeatedly that the police do not help women who are being abused by men, they only know how to punish and they are good at that and they tend to identify with the man. I have heard contrary from others, but this has been my experience time and time and time again regardless of my behavior or attitude or what part of the country I am in. Because my son lied to the police about how I reacted to him destroying my computer they took me to involuntary psych unit. It has been a long time since I have been treated with such indignity and it really brought out the abused child in me to be abandoned and ignored which about sums up what it's like to be locked up in the emergency room. It is completely useless as a health care tool. You get no sleep, you get NO medication, they make you take off all your clothes and wear a napkin (you might make a slingshot out of your brassiere or something), and when you ask for help no one will listen to you, because you are a mental patient. It brings back some very bad memories. I had two angels. I am hypoglycemic and nearly fainted on my way back from the bathroom because they also do not feed you on the psych ward in the middle of the night and I also needed my pain meds but fat chance I was even going to bother asking for that, much less my mental health meds, ironic though that may be. But for some reason I have the survival skill of tenacity, I asked every single nurse that walked by until one listened to me and she got me some 7UP. She also picked up the bloody gauze that was on the floor next to my bed that was there when I got there that I pointed out was a hospital liability but none of the other nurses would listen to me about it. (good thing I'm not THAT kind of crazy, sheesh, what if it had AIDS on it or something?) The other one was the security guard watching me. Being ignored really gets to me and I almost lost it and he came over and said you brought that book with you (a physics book) he said he had no idea what it was about but that if I filled my head with the book there would be no room for my mother, my mother was NOT there. And then he proceeded to watch over me, in a good way. I even fell asleep for awhile, in peace. They released me to the care of my counselor's office where, thankfully, they know me very well and they know I am not a violent psycho like my son and the police were making me out to be and they made arrangements to contact foster care on my behalf and let me go so I could get to class. A taxi took me home and when I got there my car was gone. Boy was I mad, lol. My son had run the gas out but at least it was all in one piece and my friend brought it to me and I went to school and tried to fake normal, that's like trying to pretend that you are not on fire. Who is this child and where is my real son? How do I get him back? Why won't the system stop screwing around and help us? Now what do I do? |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... This is so painful and I am so ashamed and hurt it is difficult to talk Snipped Continue trying like hell to get help for him. Foster care may not be the best choice long run but at this point, it might be best temporarily. You might want to tape some conversations where your son does become abusive as proof. With your disorder and now him already saying you tried to kill him, they are going to side with him. If things are getting so bad and you think it might be hard to not abuse him, throw him out of the house. Lock the doors, hide the car, get a friend to hang out with you, preferably a large male friend. I am sure you want to help him but I doubt you can. You are his mom and somewhere along the line he has lost total respect for you. Always let him know you love him but you can't help him. This most be the hardest thing for a mother. Have you tried standing up to him, not backing down? His freaking out about soda? He would have been wearing that soda plus some. Stand strong, you ARE the boss, not him. No matter how many wrongs you think you have done to him there are probably million rights. If you show weakness at this point, his abuse will become much worse. You need to get him away from you. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Betsy wrote:
In news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01, Unfortunately, my opinion is that foster care will be of no benefit to your son. You say he has a counselor, what are they doing? We go to the county mental health facility for that and they are not very helpful. My "case worker" rarely returns my calls and loses things like faxes and signed releases and other important paper work and fails to call me back to schedule appointments, especially now when I need him most. My sons counselor has not returned my calls all week. I get medication management that is very good, however. My psychiatrist believes in me and has been my hero more than once and treats me like a peer. Seriously, if things are perpetuation, the counselor sounds like he/she is not doing his/her job. That is because she is there more to be a sounding board for my poor, victim son who has had it so hard living with a mentally ill mother and all mentally ill people are violent, right? All I can say regarding some of your son's behavior is this: What consequences have occurred? I never learned this as a child or as an adult. I think I hate to punish my kid because we have been already "punished" so much just for existing, from my point of view. Society takes a punitive attitude toward mothers on welfare and we were on welfare a lot and homeless a lot until I got the help that I needed to think clearly and use the intelligence and creativity that goes along with this bipolar brain. From what I am reading, you are very good at telling your son how angry or upset or disappointed you are. That is not enough in many cases. He destroyed your computer, you tell him you are hurt. What else did you do? Did you remove HIS computer which, he pointed out, YOU paid for; so in essence it is yours? For the first time in his life, yes I did. I combined parts from his and parts from mine and built a new one for myself. If he wants a computer for himself he will have to go get a job. Thing is, he has the skills to get a really good job too, if we lived in a better town. Have there been priveleges removed for misbehavior? He did not get this way overnight, nor did he become this way just from seeing you abused. You set limits, but it sounds like you didn't enforce them. It also sounds to me like your son might want a little more firmness. He can walk all over you, and he knows it. This is part of the result of living with mood swings, dissociation, the fog of anti-depressants and the "shock" of post-traumatic stress disorder. And it is the result of simply not knowing how to set limits and normal consequences when all you've ever lived in is a war zone. I've read books about how to do it and even went to Parents Anonymous when he was little but I've never seen it role modeled. I always fantasized about some church family taking me in and teaching me how to parent but it never happened. I also fantasized about marrying a wonderful, normal man who would be a good husband to me and love me and be a good father to my son like happened for so many of my other friends but that didn't happen either. He may have some of his own mental illness. As you said, many times it is inherited, and he may have it. He doesn't have bipolar disorder. He may be exhibiting symptoms related to his use of marijuana though, I don't know, I don't use drugs. For me, drugs would be redundant. It didn't stop when you had your tubes tied, because you already had your son. Yes, it did. Keep pushing with counselors, and the state, and whatever agencies are available. Keep trying to get him evaluated. He may need anger management. To be honest, my mother would say he needs a "swat on his backside." At this point they are reacting as if I am the one with the problem. I am angry at the police for believing a lying teenager over two adult women at that house who told them that I would never try to kill my son. Then the police came back the next day to "warn" my son that "they" let me out and they didn't know why and if I came back and tried to harm him to call 911 to which my ADULT friend replied that my son was the one who hurt me but the police ignored her. And I am angry at the child services agency for ignoring my pleas for help all week and for then assigning me to a case worker who is on vacation in New York until July 21!!! It's a good thing my meds work because the system does not. I will persist, my son is worth it. I do not have any advice to offer, other than what I see, which doesn't really help now. Keep working on it. You have done your best, but one thing you must do, for yourself, is really look at things, so you can find where your responsibility lies. I tried to do that, even if I was sarcastic. Blaming everything, or most everything on a cycle of abuse is not the answer. You had some (a LOT) input into your son's behavior. Even a few years away from abusive relationships can be enough to turn opinions around. What part of SEVEN years of abstinence did you not hear me say? Then I started dating again and the guy I really liked turned out to be very bad news. So I gave up, obviously I'm not ready and I'm in therapy at the YWCA. You may still be able to do this, but you have to get strong in yourself. Until you do that, anyone and everyone will be able to "make you feel down." Tell yourself you are a good person, you deserve respect. Keep doing that every day, several times a day if needed. This is actually painful for me to do. I wrote a song about it. "I am ice and your sunlight is breaking me..." Could be worse. Johnny Cash's new song (he didn't write it) goes, "I hurt myself today, to see if I still feel..." at least I don't do that! Once YOU believe that, you can instill that into others. Follow through with things as well. It sounds to me like you gave your son a lot, but didn't expect much in return. As he became a man I began to treat him like a man, with fear. I saw this coming years ago and actually my aunt did try to help by taking him in to her house at the time but her extreme religious views were a huge problem and she treats men like they are gods. I remember saying something like maybe I should have moved in with her and had somebody doing my laundry and cooking me pork chops! But of course that would not have happened, I am just a girl in her eyes and would have been put to work regardless of my back injury or mood disorder. Needless to say he missed his freedom and it was too crowded there and he didn't like how she kept letting her adult sons use his personal stuff without his permission (her children didn't turn out so good and she won't listen to me or help me. So it built up to this point. My son has a computer of his own, same speed and "goodies" as mine. But he can not access it. It is a privelege, not a right. It is MINE, not his. He has use of it for school work, and games when chores are completed. My mother tells me I am too hard on him. I don't believe so. Well, yeah, but for us the computer is a much larger part of our lives as we are computer technicians. I wanted him to have skills he could always get work with and you get those skills with hands on experience. Also, computers as a hobby is something that he would have in common with middle class kids besides pot. Get strong in you, so you can be strong with others. That is the hardest thing to do, but so worth it. Good luck to you and your son. Betsy thank you. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Tiffany wrote:
Continue trying like hell to get help for him. Foster care may not be the best choice long run but at this point, it might be best temporarily. That is my hope. You might want to tape some conversations where your son does become abusive as proof. Very good idea. With your disorder and now him already saying you tried to kill him, they are going to side with him. That about sums it up. If things are getting so bad and you think it might be hard to not abuse him, throw him out of the house. Lock the doors, hide the car, get a friend to hang out with you, preferably a large male friend. I have no such friend it turns out. and my dog is a wimpy little cocker spaniel, lol. I am sure you want to help him but I doubt you can. You are his mom and somewhere along the line he has lost total respect for you. Which is very sad but also about sums it up. Always let him know you love him but you can't help him. This most be the hardest thing for a mother. Have you tried standing up to him, not backing down? Yeah, then he got revenge the next day by destroying the thing most precious to me. His freaking out about soda? He would have been wearing that soda plus some. And if you were a mental patient you would be in the psych unit for being violent to a minor. Especially if you did it in public, like right there at the gas station. Even though the little **** deserved it. Even though the police routinely behave much more violently, to mental patients. Stand strong, you ARE the boss, not him. No matter how many wrongs you think you have done to him there are probably million rights. If you show weakness at this point, his abuse will become much worse. You need to get him away from you. I know that I need to get him away from me. He is routinely triggering my PTSD. Much of what he is doing is just being a teenager but he has gone way past that point now. I see the child services lady today to beg her to put him in foster care. thank you. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:LEARa.82710$Ph3.10254@sccrnsc04... Tiffany wrote: Continue trying like hell to get help for him. Foster care may not be the best choice long run but at this point, it might be best temporarily. That is my hope. You might want to tape some conversations where your son does become abusive as proof. Very good idea. With your disorder and now him already saying you tried to kill him, they are going to side with him. That about sums it up. If things are getting so bad and you think it might be hard to not abuse him, throw him out of the house. Lock the doors, hide the car, get a friend to hang out with you, preferably a large male friend. I have no such friend it turns out. and my dog is a wimpy little cocker spaniel, lol. Oh you have one of those dogs that get all excited and pees all over! :) I am sure you want to help him but I doubt you can. You are his mom and somewhere along the line he has lost total respect for you. Which is very sad but also about sums it up. It is sad. There are no males role models for him to talk to? How about something like that army guy that yells at the kids on tv talk shows??? Always let him know you love him but you can't help him. This most be the hardest thing for a mother. Have you tried standing up to him, not backing down? Yeah, then he got revenge the next day by destroying the thing most precious to me. Thats ok..... now he has no PC..... he will learn to think before he reacts. Stay strong. All fails and he does something to your pc again, you can always get online to check emails and stuff at the library. His freaking out about soda? He would have been wearing that soda plus some. And if you were a mental patient you would be in the psych unit for being violent to a minor. Especially if you did it in public, like right there at the gas station. Even though the little **** deserved it. Even though the police routinely behave much more violently, to mental patients. lol... i know. mental patient or not, someone would have something to say seeing a mom tdump a soda on a kid. Stand strong, you ARE the boss, not him. No matter how many wrongs you think you have done to him there are probably million rights. If you show weakness at this point, his abuse will become much worse. You need to get him away from you. I know that I need to get him away from me. He is routinely triggering my PTSD. Much of what he is doing is just being a teenager but he has gone way past that point now. I see the child services lady today to beg her to put him in foster care. thank you. no thanks is necessary. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... This is so painful and I am so ashamed and hurt it is difficult to talk about it but you are my family of choice and have been with me through thick and thin for over four years now and I love you all and need you now more than ever as my "real" family is very unhealthy for me and my son and not there for us anyway and have caused part of the problem. I'm going to tell the whole story so you get the whole picture so as best to understand the situation so that perhaps you will understand how my son and I got to the crisis point we are at and hopefully avoid judging and condemning me, please don't do that right now. I grew up with a mother who was emotionally vacant and neglectful to the point that I nearly died as a child of dehydration and abused my whole life by my father and his crazy family. I also inherited the genetic mental illness but I also inherited the high intelligence and creativity on my mother's side, but alas, not the money ;-) (It is my life's dream to study the genetics of psychiatric illnesses and I am in school now pursuing that.) But, and this is a huge one. There is something else that has been passed on. My son watched me be abused by men when he was very young. I don't remember a lot of my childhood so it's hard for me to relate to what all he can remember of his but somehow over the last two years my precious little boy has become very abusive to me emotionally and verbally and it has reached a crisis point to where he can not live with me. He is 16. I haven't been able to control him since he got bigger than me two years ago. He stopped going to school regularly, even though he is very intelligent and I taught him everything I know about computers and have given him everything I possibly can. He says he will go back next year and finish high school and I hope he does but he has a lot of pressure from the underachievers we live around who do not have his intelligence or skills. I know I haven't been able to show love for him like "normal" but I have loved him better than I was loved and I have not physically abused him, that I am proud of, especially for having bipolar disorder. I have done my best to take care of my mental health ever since I recognized that there was something wrong with me, looking for the right pills, since I was 18 and old enough to have my own insurance since my mother believes I am demon possessed and just need to go back to church. Just last year I finally got the right anti-depressant and am finally awake! All the others made me tired and fat. I could go on for paragraphs about side effects... But mainly being asleep is the one that affected my poor child the worst, I know what it feels like to be ignored, that hurts worst than any beating, in my opinion. Psychic scars hurt and I can see that I have hell to pay for what my mental illness and the abuse that has been heaped on me in the past has done to my little boy who stands before me an angry young man. The thing is, I am tired and small and hurt and out of everyone, I am the only one who stood by him all these years, why does he hate me so much that he wants to punish me so badly? Everyday he calls me names and I tell him not to talk to me like that but he goes on like I didn't say anything, he drives my car without a license, he smokes pot and cigarettes and drinks and tells me the child support that I get, that I finally get after all these years, is free money, that I don't earn it, that I don't do anything because keeping a roof over his head, the lights on, food in the fridge and on the table and tv in his room and internet on his computer and gas in the car isn't work, and fixing computers isn't anything, even he can do that. I used to have such confidence and sometimes I still do but then I come home. My college education means nothing to him even though he was THERE. I took him to the University of Wisconsin with me when he was five, he went to daycare and then kindergarten right there on campus, he got a wonderful, radical education. I've tried so hard to expose him to literature and art and politics and music and gave him all these computer skills that he is so proud of. He has new clothes, I don't. His computer runs 5 times faster than mine and has all the new stuff. I knew when I had him that I didn't have what it takes to be a mother, much less a young, single mother and I wanted to give him up for adoption but my mother and my aunt (the god squad) ripped up the papers "you're not giving away our grand baby" but after he was born it was all "you made your bed, you lie in it" "we raised ours alone, you can do it too." "you broke God's law (fornication), all these things that you are suffering, this is your punishment." That last one, my mom said that to me again just last month. She wasn't being cruel, she really believes that. And unfortunately, apparently so do I. It is not helpful. I didn't know that I had a mental illness until after he was born. I didn't know that it was genetic until a few years ago and when I found that out I had my tubes tied, it stops with me. I don't bother telling my mother any of this for obvious reasons or my aunt as they both are already old and overwhelmed with ill health and caring for other family members who are having health problems. I have no other family. His father lives far away and resents his existence and burden of child support and has his "own" family to support so I don't think he will take him in or be a good role model either. I have been calling the foster care people for two weeks and they have been giving me the run around while my son gets more and more aggressive and I get more and more frustrated. Friday I called 911 and said come get him before I hurt him but they said I was stuck with him until he is 18 and put me through to some intake worker who said she would mail me an appointment. I said we did not have time to wait for the mail and she hung up on me. I started calling numbers at random that were similar to hers and got a case worker who put me through to her supervisor but it was voice mail so I left a message. Sunday I got gas and my son insisted on driving and I was too tired and defeated to argue even though he doesn't have a license and puts up a fight every time I try to get him to get a permit, anyway we get to the store with the last of our money and he wants pop but we only have enough for the gas and a 99 cent mocha each. But I break down and get him the damn pop. (This is a side of me none of you have seen before isn't it.) Anyway, I come out of the store and he yells across the lot, "That's not the kind of pop I want you dumb crack!" I stare at him in shock. How did it get this bad? How is it that I haven't had a man in my life for 7 years since the last guy broke my back and I decided to focus on my son and yet he still turned into one of "them"? (Now someone will say "she has an us and them mentality, it's her fault. burn the witch. I have a them and them mentality. men who abuse and men who do not feel the need to offend. but burn away, i'm on fire anyway) How did I screw this up, the only thing that really matters? And who is going to save my soul? I point out that this is the same pop I got last week that he complained that I didn't get enough of back when we had money. This is all so familiar. I have made these same apologetic rationalizations to numerous abusive men in the past before and it is pointless. It has to stop. It has to stop with me. I get up and take the pop back into the store for a refund. The lady looks at me like I am crazy (!) but gives me my dollar fifty back and for the reason why I write down 'ungrateful kid' and she laughs with me. My son is irate and I hear about it all the way home how crazy I am while I tell him how he just isn't used to me standing up for myself and holding him accountable but I plan to do it more often. I will pay, I will pay big for this, but I have no idea yet. His friend comes over needing his computer fixed. Word travels fast when you fix computers for free. He asks if he can use my computer to format his friends hard drive. Hell no! That is taking a big risk that you will accidentally lose the data on your hard drive, take that risk on your own computer or, better yet, take that risk on your friend's computer. Here, take my windows '98 cd... and I advise him how to do it. I work on my webpage a little and post some of my poems and my newest song. I am taking physics and have a lot of studying to do, I love going to college, I am good at it. My computer is my life. I have been a computer technician since 1996, it is my link to this news group and my email which is an important social need and to the Internet where I am constantly keeping my overactive brain busy doing research learning and helping people with my knowledge and all my poems and songs and webpage and 2 years worth of data are on my 30 gigabyte hard drive. Monday I came home from school and turned on my computer and nothing happened... it wouldn't boot. It was as if my son had killed my dog. For you guys out there, imagine you had a prized Porsche that you cherished and showed off and took care of every day and your son got mad at you, had been mad at you for a lot of things that you just didn't know how to fix and you came home one day and your son asked if he could drive it and you said no and you came home and your Porsche was sitting in your drive way all crashed up, how angry would you be? I couldn't breathe. I couldn't speak. I got in my car and drove to his friend's house and he got in and I took him to the woods near there and told him how he hurt me and he had no right, he had crossed the last boundary, he no longer lived at my house and that when he went and told everyone how crazy I was to be sure and tell them what he had done. I did not hit him or touch him at all, he was not scared of me in any way, (he is a foot taller than me and much faster and I can't run, I have two compressed disks in my lower back) he was annoyed. I said I was going to smash up his computer but he pointed out that his is worth way more than mine and I'd just have to pay for it so what's the sense in that. He walked back to the car before I did and tried to use his keys to get in but I got in and went home and sat down and called 911 again. They put me through to crisis and I told them again how much worse things had gotten and to please find some place for my son to live because he could not live with me, he was hurting me and I was having a hard time holding it together and I did not want it to escalate either way. Do something! I have a counselor, he has a counselor, it's going to take more than that. His constant abuse is aggravating my PTSD and I don't want to be abusive to him. I've been accused of having a victim mentality on here before, I think maybe that is what has contributed to how he has learned to treat me so please don't beat me up about that, certainly that will make things worse. So, the police came to my house. I was surprised to see them as I thought I had handled it pretty well, having gotten my point across without resorting to violence but what I didn't know is that my son had told them that I tried to kill him. He said this in front of my only friend, who knows me really well, but they did not listen to her even though she is an adult, they listened to him, presumably because although he is a minor he looks like a man. So now those who have a history of picking on me for "having issues with men" can start blaming this on me for that. Or maybe it's all Eve's fault, but I already apologized for that at gunpoint when I was married to my psycho ex-husband in front of my son when he was three, he remembers that better than I do, I've gotten really good at dissociating (leaving your body when your body and spirit find it necessary to take a break from each other for awhile). And before you blame me for getting involved with abusive men, they are not abusive at first, it is like a spider's web. Very beautiful and intricate and silky soft and smooth but damned difficult to get out of and the harder you try to get out of it the more stuck you are. Precious few escape. And I have worked very hard at escaping, I attract psychos, they like my fiery personality and my lovingness combination and I never know they are a psycho until it's too late. I did abstain for all those years but I guess that was too late. Well, this is the biggest pity party I've had in a long time. Probably because I haven't had this much pain come to the surface in years. So, the police, once again, reinforced my fear and loathing of them although they were pretty kind and respectful when they went about it by NOT helping me. I have learned repeatedly that the police do not help women who are being abused by men, they only know how to punish and they are good at that and they tend to identify with the man. I have heard contrary from others, but this has been my experience time and time and time again regardless of my behavior or attitude or what part of the country I am in. Because my son lied to the police about how I reacted to him destroying my computer they took me to involuntary psych unit. It has been a long time since I have been treated with such indignity and it really brought out the abused child in me to be abandoned and ignored which about sums up what it's like to be locked up in the emergency room. It is completely useless as a health care tool. You get no sleep, you get NO medication, they make you take off all your clothes and wear a napkin (you might make a slingshot out of your brassiere or something), and when you ask for help no one will listen to you, because you are a mental patient. It brings back some very bad memories. I had two angels. I am hypoglycemic and nearly fainted on my way back from the bathroom because they also do not feed you on the psych ward in the middle of the night and I also needed my pain meds but fat chance I was even going to bother asking for that, much less my mental health meds, ironic though that may be. But for some reason I have the survival skill of tenacity, I asked every single nurse that walked by until one listened to me and she got me some 7UP. She also picked up the bloody gauze that was on the floor next to my bed that was there when I got there that I pointed out was a hospital liability but none of the other nurses would listen to me about it. (good thing I'm not THAT kind of crazy, sheesh, what if it had AIDS on it or something?) The other one was the security guard watching me. Being ignored really gets to me and I almost lost it and he came over and said you brought that book with you (a physics book) he said he had no idea what it was about but that if I filled my head with the book there would be no room for my mother, my mother was NOT there. And then he proceeded to watch over me, in a good way. I even fell asleep for awhile, in peace. They released me to the care of my counselor's office where, thankfully, they know me very well and they know I am not a violent psycho like my son and the police were making me out to be and they made arrangements to contact foster care on my behalf and let me go so I could get to class. A taxi took me home and when I got there my car was gone. Boy was I mad, lol. My son had run the gas out but at least it was all in one piece and my friend brought it to me and I went to school and tried to fake normal, that's like trying to pretend that you are not on fire. Who is this child and where is my real son? How do I get him back? Why won't the system stop screwing around and help us? Now what do I do? If it was me, and of course this is the only way I can give you advice on this issue... and I DO know where you're coming from, in many ways. But if it was me, I'd try the Tough Love strategy. If he STEALS your car, you call the Police. If he disrespects you and your rules, kick him out. I remember what it was like to be 16 and your son is displaying similar behaviours. My parents gave me a choice. Either go to school (I dropped out in Gr.11), get a job, or get out. Of course, being the stubborn fool-headed girl I was, I got out. I packed some bags and went to stay with friends. It was the best thing my parents EVER did for me. ****ing wake-up call, let me tell you. Of course I got into some trouble, I even moved to a different city for awhile... but you know what? I came back, and not only have I grown up, I understand my parents and I would have done the same thing! And I will if my sons ever pull the **** that *I* did. You are NOT doing him any favours by catering to him. When he leaves your home as an adult, he won't have anyone to cater to him, and he'll grow up thinking the world owes him a favour. Lorian, please, please stand up for yourself. Do not let him disrespect you like that, YOU deserve better. Period. Christine |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
turtledove wrote:
snipped First, I adore you. You are a courageous woman. I've always felt that way, even if our differences in opinions sometimes got in the way. Know that. Remember what a strong woman you ARE. Let that wash over you and bring you even more strength. Really feel it. You ARE a strong woman!!! I think you need to have your psychiatrist write you a letter that you can keep in your purse stating your mental abilities and stating that this is your son's problem and not yours. Also, have you thought about emancipating him? That way he is out of the house and isn't a danger to you and yours. About his computer...take it away. Even if this means no computer in the house. It's YOUR property, not his. He didn't pay for it. You are doing the best you can with what you have. There is NOTHING to feel guilty about. You are only doing what YOU can do. That is the only thing we can do. I don't know how much help any of this is. You have my friendship sweetheart. And you know my email addy if you want to talk off list. all my love, *brianne Thank you. I am going to print this out and sleep (yeah, right, sleep.) with it next to my pillow. I wish words of love did not hurt me but they do. I read this and sobbed. I am so weird. (I am ice and your sunlight is breaking me... "Eclipse" by me http://home.comcast.net/~lorian.gray/songs.html) |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Tiffany wrote:
Oh you have one of those dogs that get all excited and pees all over! LOL. I am so lucky with this dog. Not only does she not pee all over, Lady is a little tiny blonde cocker spaniel that was the runt of two other runts so she is very small. And then we inherited this little chihuahua that didn't like me, she was my son's dog but it looks like she's mine now too. Sasha has been actually reaching for me and smiling up at me so I like her better too. And I speak spanish, LOL. you quiero Taco Bell.... because it tastes like dog food, he he. just kidding. It is sad. There are no males role models for him to talk to? How about something like that army guy that yells at the kids on tv talk shows??? I don't know, I don't watch tv. We have digital cable and I don't know how to turn on the tv. I feel like Ozzy Osborne, I stand there with the digital remote and point it and click click click but nothing happens so I yell for Sharon but alas, she does not come running to make everything all right. Besides, I called and canceled the cable tv since my son doesn't live here anymore. The good men I have known like the one that I met at college but then had to give up because I got pregnant and decided to keep my baby, well he has remained a faithful friend all these years via mail and email and he has gone on to become a computer software expert and sold his computer company to Microsoft for $20 million and works directly for Bill Gates as a technical advisor (when I screw up, I screw up royal) always remain role models from a distance (that is what normal people do, they stay clear the hell away from uh, unhealthy people.) He has a lovely wife and three children and had a great conversation with my son recently where my son discovered that he actually knew a lot more about computer hardware than my millionaire software genius friend does and that boosted his self esteem and gave him a desire to move to Seattle and pursue a future in computer hardware there. I hope my son waits to finish high school to do that though. The only other man that comes close to normal is my brother but I forget I even have a brother because I never see him even though he lives right here in town. I don't blame him, he escaped the crazy family and made a life for himself and his wife and child, I try to leave him be. That's it. I have friends at the bar I go to on Saturday nights but I don't associate with them outside the bar at all. I have been abused all my life, I don't take risks like letting people into my life or my home. And obviously even after seven years of abstinence, despite my best bravado and attempts at choosiness the guy I attracted turned out to be soo loving and wonderful but is in fact a big time psycho, at least he has a history of being violent to other people, I've been told by more than one source. At least I've kept this guy away from my son and away from me as best I can but geez. So no wonder my son is finding it hard to become a good man. They only exist on tv. Thats ok..... now he has no PC..... he will learn to think before he reacts. Stay strong. All fails and he does something to your pc again, you can always get online to check emails and stuff at the library. I can't live without a PC anymore than others can live without a car for very long. And I can build one for next to nothing in about ten minutes. But yeah, I hope my son is learning to think before he reacts and not just getting madder and madder at me over there. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Betsy wrote:
In news:hvARa.83747$H17.25802@sccrnsc02, typed: Betsy wrote: In news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01, Blaming everything, or most everything on a cycle of abuse is not the answer. You had some (a LOT) input into your son's behavior. Even a few years away from abusive relationships can be enough to turn opinions around. What part of SEVEN years of abstinence did you not hear me say? Then I started dating again and the guy I really liked turned out to be very bad news. So I gave up, obviously I'm not ready and I'm in therapy at the YWCA. Apparently, I am not any help in this situation. My apologies for wasting time and space. Since I have nothing of value to offer I will shut up now. I do wish you the best, and hope everything works out for you You were helpful and I appreciated that you took the time to read my long request for help and you responded to my desperation. I just felt that you were focusing on my mental illness as the problem and viewing the entire context of the cycle of abuse as a way of me trying to avoid responsibility. And I apologize for my sarcasm, I think I'm just really stressed out about being abstinent for so long and it having all been for nothing. I'm still screwed up and my son is way more screwed up than I ever thought capable and I wish it were due to mental illness, there are pills for that. What is wrong here is so convoluted that only a lot of time and love and role models and expert help that we may not be able to get can help. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
CME wrote:
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... If it was me, and of course this is the only way I can give you advice on this issue... and I DO know where you're coming from, in many ways. But if it was me, I'd try the Tough Love strategy. If he STEALS your car, you call the Police. If he disrespects you and your rules, kick him out. I remember what it was like to be 16 and your son is displaying similar behaviours. My parents gave me a choice. Either go to school (I dropped out in Gr.11), get a job, or get out. Of course, being the stubborn fool-headed girl I was, I got out. I packed some bags and went to stay with friends. It was the best thing my parents EVER did for me. ****ing wake-up call, let me tell you. Of course I got into some trouble, I even moved to a different city for awhile... I'm so scared that he will wind up on the streets out there, he is not able to cut it with his peers now, and we just live in a working class neighborhood, he'd be ripped to shreds out there on the streets, he'd wind up on drugs, fodder for sexual predators, oh, god. but you know what? I came back, and not only have I grown up, I understand my parents and I would have done the same thing! And I will if my sons ever pull the **** that *I* did. You are NOT doing him any favours by catering to him. When he leaves your home as an adult, he won't have anyone to cater to him, sure he will, there are lots of women just like me! (bowing my head in shame, it all comes so clear to me now. the abusive guys i've loved, they abused me because they needed me to take care of them...) and he'll grow up thinking the world owes him a favour. Lorian, please, please stand up for yourself. Do not let him disrespect you like that, YOU deserve better. Period. well, i hear you but i can't feel it inside but for today i will take your word for it. maybe one day soon i will believe it about myself again. i am trying very hard to pretend and to take steps to stand up for myself but i am always pretending, so many people treat me like i don't matter, it's not just my son. it's the police, the hospital staff, the social services system, but then there are those rare people who see the glow in me and the light clicks back on... |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:hvARa.83747$H17.25802@sccrnsc02... "This is part of the result of living with mood swings, dissociation, the fog of anti-depressants and the "shock" of post-traumatic stress disorder. And it is the result of simply not knowing how to set limits and normal consequences when all you've ever lived in is a war zone." Don't you think living around and with someone with these problems would **** up about any kid? I sniped the rest of your post, cause you don't want my thoughts on it. you love this kid, let him go, if you have any family that he's comfotable at, let him go there, if anyone can provide foster care, let him go there. Jesus H Christ, the kids mother gets comited, is stung up on pain meds and sedatives, and he freaked out. Look, most people who suffer from co-depence have the same problem as you, no matter what, you don't see past your nose. No matter what, you'll feel like you got the raw end of the deal, wether it be by a cop, a social worker, or your son. Your shrink "believes in you" as you say, so it's cool with him, unless he calls you on some of this, in which case he ends up like the cops and social workers. When the only place you got left [to come for advice is usenet, something might be wrong. When every R/L person around you is telling you ya got a serious problem, you might be wrong When you still need to blame a man who isn't even around right now, you might got a problem. When you, as a grown women, needs to blame things on her mother, you might got a problem When all those things happen at the same time, over the same issue, you DO have a problem. Get some help, if not for yourself, do it for your kid. How do you expect your kid to function normally while you carry around all that bagage? |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
16 years of dealing with LL misandrist rantings......I'm surprised it didn't
happen sooner. But in her mind...it will always be someone else's fault "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:hvARa.83747$H17.25802@sccrnsc02... "This is part of the result of living with mood swings, dissociation, the fog of anti-depressants and the "shock" of post-traumatic stress disorder. And it is the result of simply not knowing how to set limits and normal consequences when all you've ever lived in is a war zone." Don't you think living around and with someone with these problems would **** up about any kid? I sniped the rest of your post, cause you don't want my thoughts on it. you love this kid, let him go, if you have any family that he's comfotable at, let him go there, if anyone can provide foster care, let him go there. Jesus H Christ, the kids mother gets comited, is stung up on pain meds and sedatives, and he freaked out. Look, most people who suffer from co-depence have the same problem as you, no matter what, you don't see past your nose. No matter what, you'll feel like you got the raw end of the deal, wether it be by a cop, a social worker, or your son. Your shrink "believes in you" as you say, so it's cool with him, unless he calls you on some of this, in which case he ends up like the cops and social workers. When the only place you got left [to come for advice is usenet, something might be wrong. When every R/L person around you is telling you ya got a serious problem, you might be wrong When you still need to blame a man who isn't even around right now, you might got a problem. When you, as a grown women, needs to blame things on her mother, you might got a problem When all those things happen at the same time, over the same issue, you DO have a problem. Get some help, if not for yourself, do it for your kid. How do you expect your kid to function normally while you carry around all that bagage? |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:W7PRa.88994$H17.27268@sccrnsc02... CME wrote: wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... If it was me, and of course this is the only way I can give you advice on this issue... and I DO know where you're coming from, in many ways. But if it was me, I'd try the Tough Love strategy. If he STEALS your car, you call the Police. If he disrespects you and your rules, kick him out. I remember what it was like to be 16 and your son is displaying similar behaviours. My parents gave me a choice. Either go to school (I dropped out in Gr.11), get a job, or get out. Of course, being the stubborn fool-headed girl I was, I got out. I packed some bags and went to stay with friends. It was the best thing my parents EVER did for me. ****ing wake-up call, let me tell you. Of course I got into some trouble, I even moved to a different city for awhile... I'm so scared that he will wind up on the streets out there, he is not able to cut it with his peers now, and we just live in a working class neighborhood, he'd be ripped to shreds out there on the streets, he'd wind up on drugs, fodder for sexual predators, oh, god. And you know what? That's the risk you take, but what you need to do is make him realize that if he's to live in your house, he needs to respect your rules and really the choice is his. If he leaves or you kick him out, it was his choice, and if he does wind up on the street, then you make him aware that he can always come home. but you know what? I came back, and not only have I grown up, I understand my parents and I would have done the same thing! And I will if my sons ever pull the **** that *I* did. You are NOT doing him any favours by catering to him. When he leaves your home as an adult, he won't have anyone to cater to him, sure he will, there are lots of women just like me! (bowing my head in shame, it all comes so clear to me now. the abusive guys i've loved, they abused me because they needed me to take care of them...) and he'll grow up thinking the world owes him a favour. Lorian, please, please stand up for yourself. Do not let him disrespect you like that, YOU deserve better. Period. well, i hear you but i can't feel it inside but for today i will take your word for it. maybe one day soon i will believe it about myself again. i am trying very hard to pretend and to take steps to stand up for myself but i am always pretending, so many people treat me like i don't matter, it's not just my son. it's the police, the hospital staff, the social services system, but then there are those rare people who see the glow in me and the light clicks back on... Just a thought, but have you ever considered that the way people see you, is a reflection of how you see yourself? How can you expect others to see your value, if YOU do not even see it? I'm a big believer in self-image and directing my own life... if you believe you're worthless etc, then why would others think differently? Not letting people walk all over you is part of that too, it's about self-respect. I've come a looooong way baby, because I *used* to see my value through others, namely men, and although I thought I was a good person, there was always that little voice inside of me, you know the one, the one that says you're nothing (well it was actually my mother in my head, but that's another story. lol) Well it's hard work to break that cycle, and therapy helped me see all these things (well that and just basic University classes). So if *I* can do it, so can you Lorian. Christine |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Paul Fritz" wrote in message ... 16 years of dealing with LL misandrist rantings......I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But in her mind...it will always be someone else's fault That is so unfair Paul, I didn't see her blaming her son's behaviour on anyone BUT herself. Give your ****ing agenda a rest. Christine "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:hvARa.83747$H17.25802@sccrnsc02... "This is part of the result of living with mood swings, dissociation, the fog of anti-depressants and the "shock" of post-traumatic stress disorder. And it is the result of simply not knowing how to set limits and normal consequences when all you've ever lived in is a war zone." Don't you think living around and with someone with these problems would **** up about any kid? I sniped the rest of your post, cause you don't want my thoughts on it. you love this kid, let him go, if you have any family that he's comfotable at, let him go there, if anyone can provide foster care, let him go there. Jesus H Christ, the kids mother gets comited, is stung up on pain meds and sedatives, and he freaked out. Look, most people who suffer from co-depence have the same problem as you, no matter what, you don't see past your nose. No matter what, you'll feel like you got the raw end of the deal, wether it be by a cop, a social worker, or your son. Your shrink "believes in you" as you say, so it's cool with him, unless he calls you on some of this, in which case he ends up like the cops and social workers. When the only place you got left [to come for advice is usenet, something might be wrong. When every R/L person around you is telling you ya got a serious problem, you might be wrong When you still need to blame a man who isn't even around right now, you might got a problem. When you, as a grown women, needs to blame things on her mother, you might got a problem When all those things happen at the same time, over the same issue, you DO have a problem. Get some help, if not for yourself, do it for your kid. How do you expect your kid to function normally while you carry around all that bagage? |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
CME wrote in message ... And you know what? That's the risk you take, but what you need to do is make him realize that if he's to live in your house, he needs to respect your rules and really the choice is his. If he leaves or you kick him out, Snip other good advice I have to disagree here Christine as my POV is a lot different to yours. I do not live in "my" house with my son, I live in our house. House rules are two way, I don't set them, we agree to them. Obviously at Freddie's age some basics are more my domain than his but at the age of Lorian's son, and I have two grown sons go through this stage, there has to be a big element of give and take based on mutual respect. It seems that going through an angst stage where he has little respect for her or anyone else for that matter. He is testing his limits and is finding that they are almost limitless at the moment. He will not stop until he realises that treating people with contempt if not the best way in life. He will be thinking, and not without reason, that everyone around him is treating him with contempt too. He thinks that he knows better than his mother and is ready and confident enough to find out for himself. To us it is a dreadfull stage in the development of an adolescent boy, to him it is merely testing the water and establishing himself as an adult capable of finding his own way in life. I left home a 16. I was fed up with the restrictions and expectations of my father. We fought all the time. I disagreed with everything he said and stood for. I was going to change the world. I would play Bob Dylan records at full volume just to **** him off! To an outsider I was an arrogant arsehole with a big attitude. To myself and my piers I was a self confident ground breaker who new where he was going for myself. I suppose the biggest breakthrough was made by my mother as I still remember it clearly. After a full blast rendition of a Bob Dylan track entitled "My back Pages" from the Anotherside of LP, she quietly said that she really liked that one. I was thoroughly ****ed off that I had had the opposite affect to that intended and went to listen to it again quietly. I had only heard what I wanted to hear and completely overlooked the chorus. Here are the words from http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/backpages.html Crimson flames tied through my ears Rollin' high and mighty traps Pounced with fire on flaming roads Using ideas as my maps "We'll meet on edges, soon," said I Proud 'neath heated brow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth "Rip down all hate," I screamed Lies that life is black and white Spoke from my skull. I dreamed Romantic facts of musketeers Foundationed deep, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Girls' faces formed the forward path From phony jealousy To memorizing politics Of ancient history Flung down by corpse evangelists Unthought of, though, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. A self-ordained professor's tongue Too serious to fool Spouted out that liberty Is just equality in school "Equality," I spoke the word As if a wedding vow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand At the mongrel dogs who teach Fearing not that I'd become my enemy In the instant that I preach My pathway led by confusion boats Mutiny from stern to bow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats Too noble to neglect Deceived me into thinking I had something to protect Good and bad, I define these terms Quite clear, no doubt, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. My teenage hero had already seen the light! and my mother had seen it before I had! Lets hope that Lorian's son also has some kind of defining moment that he will see for himself, however that may happen. Dennis |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Dennis Here" youreply wrote in message ... CME wrote in message ... And you know what? That's the risk you take, but what you need to do is make him realize that if he's to live in your house, he needs to respect your rules and really the choice is his. If he leaves or you kick him out, Snip other good advice I have to disagree here Christine as my POV is a lot different to yours. I do not live in "my" house with my son, I live in our house. House rules are two way, I don't set them, we agree to them. Obviously at Freddie's age some basics are more my domain than his but at the age of Lorian's son, and I have two grown sons go through this stage, there has to be a big element of give and take based on mutual respect. It seems that going through an angst stage where he has little respect for her or anyone else for that matter. He is testing his limits and is finding that they are almost limitless at the moment. I agree with you there, and the 'our' house if a good point. But I'm alittle old school in the thought that it's my house, because I'm paying the rent, etc. lol I guess it's my father leaping out of my throat when I say that. Wow, who knew? lol ..He will not stop until he realises that treating people with contempt if not the best way in life. He will be thinking, and not without reason, that everyone around him is treating him with contempt too. He thinks that he knows better than his mother and is ready and confident enough to find out for himself. To us it is a dreadfull stage in the development of an adolescent boy, to him it is merely testing the water and establishing himself as an adult capable of finding his own way in life. I left home a 16. I was fed up with the restrictions and expectations of my father. We fought all the time. I disagreed with everything he said and stood for. I was going to change the world. I would play Bob Dylan records at full volume just to **** him off! To an outsider I was an arrogant arsehole with a big attitude. To myself and my piers I was a self confident ground breaker who new where he was going for myself. I suppose the biggest breakthrough was made by my mother as I still remember it clearly. After a full blast rendition of a Bob Dylan track entitled "My back Pages" from the Anotherside of LP, she quietly said that she really liked that one. I was thoroughly ****ed off that I had had the opposite affect to that intended and went to listen to it again quietly. I had only heard what I wanted to hear and completely overlooked the chorus. Here are the words from http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/backpages.html Crimson flames tied through my ears Rollin' high and mighty traps Pounced with fire on flaming roads Using ideas as my maps "We'll meet on edges, soon," said I Proud 'neath heated brow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth "Rip down all hate," I screamed Lies that life is black and white Spoke from my skull. I dreamed Romantic facts of musketeers Foundationed deep, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Girls' faces formed the forward path From phony jealousy To memorizing politics Of ancient history Flung down by corpse evangelists Unthought of, though, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. A self-ordained professor's tongue Too serious to fool Spouted out that liberty Is just equality in school "Equality," I spoke the word As if a wedding vow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand At the mongrel dogs who teach Fearing not that I'd become my enemy In the instant that I preach My pathway led by confusion boats Mutiny from stern to bow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats Too noble to neglect Deceived me into thinking I had something to protect Good and bad, I define these terms Quite clear, no doubt, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. My teenage hero had already seen the light! and my mother had seen it before I had! Lets hope that Lorian's son also has some kind of defining moment that he will see for himself, however that may happen. Dennis Yeah, mine was probably when I left home and realized how bloody naive I was. The only thing that kept me alive was that I had brains, and I learned fast. I even remember spending a cold, hungry night outside walking the piers of Victoria because I had no where else to go. What a rough awakening. But my truly defining moment didn't come until later, when I became pregnant. I knew I was responsible for someone other than myself, and I needed to get my **** together. I'm proud that I've made it. Christine |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
CME wrote:
And you know what? That's the risk you take, but what you need to do is make him realize that if he's to live in your house, he needs to respect your rules and really the choice is his. If he leaves or you kick him out, it was his choice, and if he does wind up on the street, then you make him aware that he can always come home. Scary, but good advice. If/when he lives with me again. Just a thought, but have you ever considered that the way people see you, is a reflection of how you see yourself? How can you expect others to see your value, if YOU do not even see it? yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. I'm a big believer in self-image and directing my own life... if you believe you're worthless etc, then why would others think differently? Not letting people walk all over you is part of that too, it's about self-respect. It's also about me just being too tired and defeated to say no. And a learned fear of saying no. I've come a looooong way baby, because I *used* to see my value through others, namely men, this one I figured out a few months ago and I realized that even though I wasn't dating anyone I was still relying on the approval I got from the men in my life that I fixed computers for, or bought computer parts from, or that worked at the bar that I liked to go to on Saturday nights (safe men, because I have a rule against dating bar staff) or just any man that thought I was pretty or funny or smart or whatever. That was a high that I knew deep down that could vanish at any moment and that it wasn't right to rely on others for my self-esteem. So, I stopped going to the bar for awhile and distanced myself from everybody emotionally and asked myself what I liked to do that was just for me. This took awhile. I remembered that in college I had studied creative writing. So, I started going to poetry readings. Then I started writing poetry again and my creativity came back like a flood, I still can hardly keep up enough pen and scraps of paper to write it all down as it comes to me. This is where lasting self esteem comes from, within. And now I have a reputation at the bar (it's really my main social outlet, I have good friends there who are all sober as they work there and they are educated and intelligent and respect me) for being a writer and they like my songs and encourage me as I pursue my education in genetics. It's my son who doesn't respect me. and although I thought I was a good person, there was always that little voice inside of me, you know the one, the one that says you're nothing (well it was actually my mother in my head, but that's another story. lol) I take a pill for that, LOL. Sometimes my mother does try to help me love myself and I do respect her for the fact that she did leave my father and she did raise my brother and I alone and she did go get a job as a bus driver that she has had all these years and she is now doing that and caring for my dying stepdad too. It's just that she has a lot of shame issues herself so ultimately that is what comes through from her. And I don't know that I will ever overcome my childhood, I can't usually remember it except in times of extreme duress. Well it's hard work to break that cycle, and therapy helped me see all these things (well that and just basic University classes). So if *I* can do it, so can you Lorian. I'm glad you have such confidence in me, and thank you for sharing your story, it does give me hope that if I continue to work hard and seek help for my son and I that we can make a better way. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Paul Fritz wrote:
16 years of dealing with LL misandrist rantings......I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But in her mind...it will always be someone else's fault I shouldn't respond to this but I am going to. First, I asked for people with condemnation and judgment not to reply but you, Paul Fritz, overstepped my boundaries once again because you do not have any respect for women's boundaries, because you are an abuser. Second, you have no right to judge me as a "misandrist" which means man hater. You are a woman hater, that is clear from your years of posting lies and hate about women here and on alt.child-support so I have often wondered about your daughter and her reaction to how you view women so derogatively, especially since you so rarely talk about your daughter online at all, preferring instead to target ME for your hatred and rage and tooting your own horn. Third, I did not place blame for my son's abusive attitude toward me on anything other than the fact that I and I alone raised him in an environment where he saw me being abused by men and now that has come back to bite me in the ass and I, and I alone, have done everything within my power to change the course of his future. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
CME wrote:
"Paul Fritz" wrote in message ... 16 years of dealing with LL misandrist rantings......I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But in her mind...it will always be someone else's fault That is so unfair Paul, I didn't see her blaming her son's behaviour on anyone BUT herself. Give your ****ing agenda a rest. Thank you Christine, sometimes Paul needs a reality check and I appreciate the validation. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Dennis Here wrote:
So you should be! I did the classic out of my bedroom window on a rope escape when I left home. A sleeping bag over my shoulder with a few basics wrapped up inside. It was towards the end of the "beatnik" era in the mid sixties. I think I had just finished reading Jack Keroac's "On the Road" , a must read at the time. The first night I slept under Bournemouth pier, then I found a bandstand in the park before graduation to derelict buildings in London. Money was short so I went to Kent and got casual work on the hop and fruit farms and found a crowd of people just like me! Actually Lorian could do worse than give him a copy wrapped up in a sleeping bag! "On The Road" is a classic! and I've been trying to get him to read the commonly banned "Catcher in the Rye" I think he could relate a lot and maybe feel better. I don't mind kids with an "attitude" as long as they have had the basic grounding during their formative years, which, I have to say, seem to be fewer with each generation. I still believe that the first ones into these things are also the first ones to come out the other end and get on with their lives. Seems it did neither of us any harm though it took years to build a relationship with my father again. I had only just got there when he died. What you are both forgetting is how the street is a whole different place now than it was in the '60s or even the '80s. We have AIDS for one thing, a lot more adults out there who are also homeless, a lot more hard core drugs, and precious few resources to go around for all who need them out there. He is not street smart, he wouldn't make it, it would destroy him. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Rolly The Pervert wrote:
wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. Then you haven't really been paying attention until now. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. I have been blaming myself since before he was born, so has everyone else, what more do you want from me? Also, know where he's comming from. I do put myself in his shoes and he is still a child and I already said repeatedly that I knew how he must hurt to have lived with me because I knew how it hurt to live with my parents. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. I do. It tortures me. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. I don't smoke, I always find myself apologizing for that when I say that I do not have a cigarette but I would give them one if I did (even though this only perpetuates their addiction. Relief is relief.) And I have always helped those less fortunate to me no matter how poor I have gotten, I even have advice to others on how to do so on my webpage: http://home.comcast.net/~lorian.gray/spiraloflife.html Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. I hope this happens for us one day soon. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. I think you do not know me very well at all to make that kind of judgment about me as a person and I am very suspicious of who you are but I trust that you want the best for my son and that you still see that I am a positive in his life. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. Wrong. I have always taken responsibility for my son from the day I found out I was pregnant with him, everyone else abandoned us and their responsibility to him and to me and had nothing but contempt, including society in general. Hate the poor may as well be our country's motto. But I have always stood by my son and have always tried my best to get help from the people who are getting PAID to help families like ours but the system has failed us repeatedly. I did not do this alone and I will not accept all the blame alone either. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Thank you. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:IXjSa.101987$H17.31522@sccrnsc02... Dennis Here wrote: So you should be! I did the classic out of my bedroom window on a rope escape when I left home. A sleeping bag over my shoulder with a few basics wrapped up inside. It was towards the end of the "beatnik" era in the mid sixties. I think I had just finished reading Jack Keroac's "On the Road" , a must read at the time. The first night I slept under Bournemouth pier, then I found a bandstand in the park before graduation to derelict buildings in London. Money was short so I went to Kent and got casual work on the hop and fruit farms and found a crowd of people just like me! Actually Lorian could do worse than give him a copy wrapped up in a sleeping bag! "On The Road" is a classic! and I've been trying to get him to read the commonly banned "Catcher in the Rye" I think he could relate a lot and maybe feel better. I don't mind kids with an "attitude" as long as they have had the basic grounding during their formative years, which, I have to say, seem to be fewer with each generation. I still believe that the first ones into these things are also the first ones to come out the other end and get on with their lives. Seems it did neither of us any harm though it took years to build a relationship with my father again. I had only just got there when he died. What you are both forgetting is how the street is a whole different place now than it was in the '60s or even the '80s. We have AIDS for one thing, a lot more adults out there who are also homeless, a lot more hard core drugs, and precious few resources to go around for all who need them out there. He is not street smart, he wouldn't make it, it would destroy him. No it wouldn't. I was on the street in the mid 90's. If he's smart, and stays away from the hard core drugs (crack and heroin) he'll make it out again. And as a male, he has alot more going for him, then I did at 17. It was a rough time for me, but you know what? I look back, mostly in fondness. Although I made some poor decisions, I wouldn't change them because it wouldn't make me the person I am today. If he has skills, he'll be just fine. He's at that age, where you have to let him go... but make sure he knows that you love him no matter what. Christine |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Rolly The Pervert wrote in message ... You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Tom, you are showing wisdom way beyond your years. A good post based on the reality of the current situation. The past will only give an understanding, it cannot help in the here and now. Dennis |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:fzhSa.101124$H17.30287@sccrnsc02... Paul Fritz wrote: 16 years of dealing with LL misandrist rantings......I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But in her mind...it will always be someone else's fault I shouldn't respond to this but I am going to. Cause you have no self control Hit the nail on the head that time First, I asked for people with condemnation and judgment not to reply but you, Paul Fritz, overstepped my boundaries once again because you do not have any respect for women's boundaries, because you are an abuser. No it's usenet. You askign anyone not to reply is over stepping your boundries. After all these years, looney still hasn't grasped the concept of an unmoderated NG Second, you have no right to judge me as a "misandrist" which means man hater. You are a woman hater, that is clear from your years of posting lies and hate about women here and on alt.child-support so I have often wondered about your daughter and her reaction to how you view women so derogatively, especially since you so rarely talk about your daughter online at all, preferring instead to target ME for your hatred and rage and tooting your own horn. Now she uses his kid as a weapon, and starts with the I'm a Woman, your an abuser BS. What is comical is that looney says 'I' have no right to judge, and then jumps to her own looney tunes judgements. It grinds her that I am sucessful in most things, from child raising to business........ LooNey Lorian still can't accept responsibility for her own ****. why she is where she is and I am where I am. Third, I did not place blame for my son's abusive attitude toward me on anything other than the fact that I and I alone raised him in an environment where he saw me being abused by men and now that has come back to bite me in the ass and I, and I alone, have done everything within my power to change the course of his future. What a crock of ****. You got that right..........in looney land, it is still somebody else's fault, she has got her head so far up her ass she cannot see what the damage of her misandrist life has done to her son. You failed to move on, your still living and acting as if you are with someone who beats you. whatever any man has ever done to you can't come close to what you've done to yourself. You've reduced yourself to someone who takes pills for pain, pills to sleep, pills to not be depressed, pills to not be manic. Your someone who is still in every 2nd post blaming everything since you left on your X on him and the men in your life. You atract what you put out lady, if your a co-dependant, your gonna atract control freaks and assorted assholes. You got some repressed something that you can't get past, it's why you've sounded like a broken record all these years. And before you go calling me a manhater, I came here at your request, cause you cried and whined about being trolled abusively. I subbed, read, and when I pointed out that no on was trolling you, you had been a willing participant, and what they were saying wasn't completely untrue, you flipped on me, called me a woman hater ( there went a year long friendship because I wouldnt co-sign your bull**** huh ) *ps, if she replies to this and denies, I'll have a bot setup to repost everything that happened here that month. You are not the first for that to happen. Looney constantly whines about how 'abusive' am, yet she has been killfiled for so years.....the only post I see of hers are responses from somebody else. Get a grip, your son needs you, it's time to help him heel from all the years of being the son of a looney mar00n. Pick your ass up, take it to a CODA meeting, and get some help. Your not responsible for your disease, but you are for your recovery baby |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! Lisa |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... Snip Lorian, OMG....this post!!!.. I cannot even begin to imagine how you must have suffered, firstly as a child and now as an adult. Not only were you shortchanged by your parents, but their abuse of you was their legacy to you and is probably the cause of your illness. And this legacy of theirs has not only hurt you, but is being handed down to your son, but not deliberately on your part. You've obviously worked hard at not being your mother or father...But that's one hell of a tough thing to do...It's a known fact that abuse is a hard cycle to break...and all credit to you for what you've done...You've broken the physical cycle from what I can gather...but the psychological one is the hardest....but you are obviously trying and deserve credit for it. I cant imaging how worn down and tired you must be. These teenage years of your sons are probably going to be the hardest too, my heart goes out to you. I think you should be congratulated on the gift of education you've given your son. I reckon this is one part of you that hasnt been contanimated by your parents. You were clear, determined and knew what you were doing. I would say this most definitely came across to your son, otherwise he wouldnt be as knowledgeable as he is. I'd say he has a quiet respect for this side of you. Now if your parents had left you alone, brought you up with kindness, decency and been good to you, then the mother that educated your son would be the same mother that knew how to set boundaries, say no and be comfortable in her own skin (if that makes sense). Unfortuantely they stripped you of this and it's been your downfall. I dont think it's your fault, I think its theirs. As a result your son has had to deal with two mothers, the one that knew what she was doing and the other one that was grasping at straws, grappling with herself and unsure. He probably sensed this from a very young age and got away with murder, now he's older and fighting back, or more to the point begging for help but doesnt have the know how. Reading your post about the mocha drink he *sounds* like one hell of a spoilt brat!! (Sorry, no offence intended). I would say though it's more a case that you are the only person that he has that he can really truly be himself with, and is letting out all his frustrations on you. I believe kicking him out on to the street will probably destroy him and ruin all the hard work you've put in, not to mention a waste of all the hours of agony that you've gone through. You'd be perpetuating the cycle too..... Breaking it however, is tough and I dont think you will be able to do it on your own, simply cos you havent got the tools or know how (thanks to your parents). This is where fostering to a good home where there are other kids would be a good idea. It would help him in the future, but do nothing for you as a parent. And you need help too Going by what you've said it seems to me that this lad didnt really have many rules or boundaries imposed on him, probably becuase you didnt know how to say no.....not that you didnt want to...just probably cos you didnt know when it was appropriate....God!!...I hope I'm not offending you here.... This lad sounds as though he really and truly needs genuine love and attention, to know that he is cherished, *important to somebody*, ideally you...and needed. You really need to let him know that you truly love him and that love is unconditional. After all, given what he witnessed as a child you are hardly in a position to expect pristine behaviour when your own wasnt that great....and he know this and will flog it to the death if you let him. You cant threaten him with the door because his behaviour is in the gutter, when he grew up watching your behaviour with these men. If he's willing, sit him down, tell him about your own childhood, how you felt at the time and how it affected you growing up. Acknowledge to him that maybe you werent the best parent starting off but now you know you were wrong. *Ask* him what he needs from you. Make it quite clear that he is as much a part of the family as you are and this is his home, it always will be. Tell him that you *need* his help at sorting this out and that you are going to keep trying, you will never give up on him. Get him to open up to you if you can. However, at some point you really have to set boundaries and rules, give him responsiblity in the home. If this is his home, as much as yours, then he should treat it as such and pull his weight. And these rules have to apply to you too. He is entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from you too, just as my lads are entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from me. Threatening to throw him on the street is just a more subtle way of perpetuating the cycle of abuse that you recieved, it's instilling fear and builds hostility in his mind. If he's not willing to listen, or it ends up in a fight, sit down and write a letter/email to him. Dont doubt he will read it, a letter never goes unread. However, I do feel it would do him the world of good to go and see how other people live. Call it fostering if you like, but I'd be more inclined to tell him that this is a great opportunity for him to go and see how other people live. Be open about the fact that it will show him how wrong some of the things you did were, and this is a great chance to break the loop. After all, in years to come he might have a family of his own and this time seeing how another family behave might be his saving grace. If he does go to another family though make sure you see or speak to him every single day, without fail, at the same time every day too, so that he knows he can rely on you. First thing in the morning to wish him well and last thing after dinner to see how he is and how he got on. When he comes home ask him what he thinks, and get him to talk in detail if you can, be open about the differences between how you dealt with hiim and how they do. Make it quite clear that this is only a temporary arrangement, that you are under no circumstances turning your back on him or giving up on him. And while he is off with this other family you should foster yourself out too.....Parenting classes are a start and I'm sure if you asked around someone could give you some idea of where to go...... Well, all the above are only my opinion, for what its worth and hope I havent offened you, as that is not my intention. I'm not really qualified or experienced enough either cos my lads are still only young at 11 and 13, I dont have the wisdom of hindsight as of yet...as many others here in the group do......However, I really feel for what you are going through and hope you and your son manage to get through this. Best of luck Dolores Who is this child and where is my real son? How do I get him back? Why won't the system stop screwing around and help us? Now what do I do? |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01...
They released me to the care of my counselor's office where, thankfully, they know me very well and they know I am not a violent psycho like my son and the police were making me out to be and they made arrangements to contact foster care on my behalf and let me go so I could get to class. Lorian, I'm sorry things have gotten to this point. Both you and your son are clearly suffering a great deal. I think it's a very good thing that you're working with the foster care system to find a stable home for him. That seems the best solution in the short term given your resources and his age. Some distance between you two will allow you both to get your equilibrium back and figure out what to do with the assistance of neutral counselors. I hope that you can spend some time tending to your own needs and he, separately, can be helped with the tremendous issues he must be facing. Peace to you both. lm |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
Lisa aka Surfer wrote:
Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! Lisa Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusive to me on here as always and I won't put up with it from you either. And I was able to resolve things with Betsy as I apologized for my sarcasm and she did get through to me in email. Because she did truly care for me and my son's best interests. You never have. You have always been catty and superior and very hurtful to me and I will not allow you to continue to do that to me here. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Lisa aka Surfer" wrote in message ... "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! you're a sweatheart as always :) I just got in from the beach and my bum is all sun burnt again lol |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03... Lisa aka Surfer wrote: Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! Lisa Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusiveslap And what you gonna do about it? **** off bitch |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
dolores wrote:
wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... Snip Lorian, OMG....this post!!!.. I cannot even begin to imagine how you must have suffered, firstly as a child and now as an adult. Not only were you shortchanged by your parents, but their abuse of you was their legacy to you and is probably the cause of your illness. I was born with my mental illness, manic-depression, also called bipolar disorder, is genetic. But what has really been a problem is the PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) and that did come from abuse from my parents and the abusers in my life. And this legacy of theirs has not only hurt you, but is being handed down to your son, but not deliberately on your part. You've obviously worked hard at not being your mother or father...But that's one hell of a tough thing to do...It's a known fact that abuse is a hard cycle to break...and all credit to you for what you've done...You've broken the physical cycle from what I can gather...but the psychological one is the hardest....but you are obviously trying and deserve credit for it. I cant imaging how worn down and tired you must be. These teenage years of your sons are probably going to be the hardest too, my heart goes out to you. I think you should be congratulated on the gift of education you've given your son. I reckon this is one part of you that hasnt been contanimated by your parents. You were clear, determined and knew what you were doing. I would say this most definitely came across to your son, otherwise he wouldnt be as knowledgeable as he is. I'd say he has a quiet respect for this side of you. Now if your parents had left you alone, brought you up with kindness, decency and been good to you, then the mother that educated your son would be the same mother that knew how to set boundaries, say no and be comfortable in her own skin (if that makes sense). That is exactly what I feel like. Unfortuantely they stripped you of this and it's been your downfall. I dont think it's your fault, I think its theirs. As a result your son has had to deal with two mothers, the one that knew what she was doing and the other one that was grasping at straws, grappling with herself and unsure. He probably sensed this from a very young age and got away with murder, this has always been one of my fears, that one of my abusers would kill me and get away with it, because I am "crazy", they would claim self defense and with no witnesses... even though I have never been violent. now he's older and fighting back, or more to the point begging for help but doesnt have the know how. Reading your post about the mocha drink he *sounds* like one hell of a spoilt brat!! (Sorry, no offence intended). I would say though it's more a case that you are the only person that he has that he can really truly be himself with, and is letting out all his frustrations on you. I believe kicking him out on to the street will probably destroy him and ruin all the hard work you've put in, not to mention a waste of all the hours of agony that you've gone through. You'd be perpetuating the cycle too..... Breaking it however, is tough and I dont think you will be able to do it on your own, simply cos you havent got the tools or know how (thanks to your parents). This is where fostering to a good home where there are other kids would be a good idea. It would help him in the future, but do nothing for you as a parent. And you need help too. I wish the system would recognize that. Thank you. Going by what you've said it seems to me that this lad didnt really have many rules or boundaries imposed on him, probably becuase you didnt know how to say no.....not that you didnt want to...just probably cos you didnt know when it was appropriate....God!!...I hope I'm not offending you here.... Also, as he became a man beginning two years ago I became afraid to say no, that is how I react to men, even though he is my own son, and that is how he got this way over time. I saw this happening two years ago and tried to get help then, even placing him temporarily in my aunt's home and trying to get help from they system but nobody really heard me. This lad sounds as though he really and truly needs genuine love and attention, to know that he is cherished, *important to somebody*, ideally you...and needed. You really need to let him know that you truly love him and that love is unconditional. After all, given what he witnessed as a child you are hardly in a position to expect pristine behaviour when your own wasnt that great....and he know this and will flog it to the death if you let him. You cant threaten him with the door because his behaviour is in the gutter, when he grew up watching your behaviour with these men. What's weird for him probably is that all my friends are men. I am a computer technician, how many other women computer technicians do you think I know? None. All the computer hardware and software sales clerks are men, all the tech support people I talk to are men, all the security guards, bartenders, cooks, dishwashes, dj's, and barbacks I hang out with at the bar I go to are men, and in my physics class at school they are mostly men. But they all stay where I meet them, I always come home alone. So, he hasn't had any real role models in his daily life. The guys who did enter our lives were always unhealthy and didn't stay for long, I did my best. If he's willing, sit him down, tell him about your own childhood, how you felt at the time and how it affected you growing up. Acknowledge to him that maybe you werent the best parent starting off but now you know you were wrong. *Ask* him what he needs from you. Make it quite clear that he is as much a part of the family as you are and this is his home, it always will be. Tell him that you *need* his help at sorting this out and that you are going to keep trying, you will never give up on him. Get him to open up to you if you can. I will do that when we are ready. However, at some point you really have to set boundaries and rules, give him responsiblity in the home. If this is his home, as much as yours, then he should treat it as such and pull his weight. And these rules have to apply to you too. He is entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from you too, just as my lads are entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from me. What exactly does this look like? Threatening to throw him on the street is just a more subtle way of perpetuating the cycle of abuse that you recieved, it's instilling fear and builds hostility in his mind. yeah, I can see that. I didn't do that, I just pointed out that when he told me how I didn't do anything around here that if he thought he could manage a household better he could go get himself emancipated and manage his own household. If he's not willing to listen, or it ends up in a fight, sit down and write a letter/email to him. Dont doubt he will read it, a letter never goes unread. However, I do feel it would do him the world of good to go and see how other people live. Call it fostering if you like, but I'd be more inclined to tell him that this is a great opportunity for him to go and see how other people live. Be open about the fact that it will show him how wrong some of the things you did were, and this is a great chance to break the loop. After all, in years to come he might have a family of his own and this time seeing how another family behave might be his saving grace. Can I go to a foster home? Can someone parent me so that I can learn what it feels like to have two parents who love me? No? damn. If he does go to another family though make sure you see or speak to him every single day, without fail, at the same time every day too, so that he knows he can rely on you. First thing in the morning to wish him well and last thing after dinner to see how he is and how he got on. When he comes home ask him what he thinks, and get him to talk in detail if you can, be open about the differences between how you dealt with hiim and how they do. Make it quite clear that this is only a temporary arrangement, that you are under no circumstances turning your back on him or giving up on him. I will. And while he is off with this other family you should foster yourself out too.....Parenting classes are a start and I'm sure if you asked around someone could give you some idea of where to go...... ] ok. I will look for parents anonymous. Well, all the above are only my opinion, for what its worth and hope I havent offened you, as that is not my intention. I'm not really qualified or experienced enough either cos my lads are still only young at 11 and 13, I dont have the wisdom of hindsight as of yet...as many others here in the group do......However, I really feel for what you are going through and hope you and your son manage to get through this. Best of luck thank you for being there for me when I need you Dolores. This means a lot to me. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... "Lisa aka Surfer" wrote in message ... "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! you're a sweatheart as always :) I just got in from the beach and my bum is all sun burnt again lol Oh for goodness sakes,,,,,were you in Gatineau again? LOL.....silly There's water proof sunscreen you know Surf |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Lisa aka Surfer" wrote in message ... "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... "Lisa aka Surfer" wrote in message ... "Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:rfhSa.101006$H17.30659@sccrnsc02... yeah, because when I have confidence others react to that. When I am depressed I try to isolate myself so as not to be a burden onothers, but my poor son has always been around me through these mood swings and through the fall out of the trauma of the abuse I've taken from others and he must have felt so powerless to help me and of course I was not able to be there for him emotionally, that is a big part of why he is so angry at me I am sure. Also, my confidence level is a main factor of my manic-depression. When I am manic, I am very confident when I am depressed I feel worthless, no matter what. The meds help a lot but only go so far. You know what, this is the sanest thing i've ever read from you. This is all real stuff. Don't tolerate what your kid is doing because of this stuff, but accepting you played a part in causing it is a huge deal. Also, know where he's comming from. Think of when your at wits end with everything around you. imagine being your son, unable to stop it. Think of how it hurts you to be rejected by people you care about, then think of how he must have felt when you were in your harder moments. My advice, let him cool off in foster care. Take some time for yourself, sleep in a bit if your work situation permits it, try to eat a bit better then normal for a while, try to go for a half hour walk everyday, call a friend once a day, don't dump on them, ask them how they are, and listen, and once a day, without telling anyone, do something for someone you don't know. Throw some change at a bum, drop some old clothes off at a womans shelter, volunteer somewhere, offeer a homeless guy a cigarette ( if you smoke ) doensn't have to be anything huge, just don't tell anyone. Then after al that, sit down with your son, have a frank discussion. Tell him you know he's had it rough, tell him what you just said here about how you know you affect him. Then tell him that despite all that, the two of you need to have a relationship together where you have some respect for each other. It'll be hard at first, but i don't think your son is a bad kid, just a hurt one acting bad. I think you'll both find alot of forgiveness. Good luck, I don't like you as a person, and It shouldn't matter who does and who doesn't anyways. you do have a child, and the both of you deserve each other. When you start taking responsibility for the stuff you have a part in, you won't feel the need to **** on yourself unfairly anymore Lorian. I replied to this mostly cause it looks like your starting to do that. Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! you're a sweatheart as always :) I just got in from the beach and my bum is all sun burnt again lol Oh for goodness sakes,,,,,were you in Gatineau again? Oka beach actually hehe,. more people. some of those guys though , lol, well i wouldn't if I were them LOL.....silly There's water proof sunscreen you know heh hot ass ... lol Surf |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
"Rolly The Pervert" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03... Lisa aka Surfer wrote: Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! Lisa Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusiveslap And what you gonna do about it? **** off bitch Typical looney lorain.......straight out of the 'women's studies' textbook.............if they don't agree with you, label them abusive etc. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03... Lisa aka Surfer wrote: Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well these days!!!! Lisa Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusive to me on here as always and I won't put up with it from you either. And I was able to resolve things with Betsy as I apologized for my sarcasm and she did get through to me in email. Because she did truly care for me and my son's best interests. You never have. You have always been catty and superior and very hurtful to me and I will not allow you to continue to do that to me here. L, you need to let go of this 'being abused online' stuff. No one can hurt you unless you let them, online. Don't read their posts for god sake. |
help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)
wrote in message news:vZDSa.107781$N7.14327@sccrnsc03... dolores wrote: wrote in message news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... Snip Lorian, OMG....this post!!!.. I cannot even begin to imagine how you must have suffered, firstly as a child and now as an adult. Not only were you shortchanged by your parents, but their abuse of you was their legacy to you and is probably the cause of your illness. I was born with my mental illness, manic-depression, also called bipolar disorder, is genetic. But what has really been a problem is the PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) and that did come from abuse from my parents and the abusers in my life. And this legacy of theirs has not only hurt you, but is being handed down to your son, but not deliberately on your part. You've obviously worked hard at not being your mother or father...But that's one hell of a tough thing to do...It's a known fact that abuse is a hard cycle to break...and all credit to you for what you've done...You've broken the physical cycle from what I can gather...but the psychological one is the hardest....but you are obviously trying and deserve credit for it. I cant imaging how worn down and tired you must be. These teenage years of your sons are probably going to be the hardest too, my heart goes out to you. I think you should be congratulated on the gift of education you've given your son. I reckon this is one part of you that hasnt been contanimated by your parents. You were clear, determined and knew what you were doing. I would say this most definitely came across to your son, otherwise he wouldnt be as knowledgeable as he is. I'd say he has a quiet respect for this side of you. Now if your parents had left you alone, brought you up with kindness, decency and been good to you, then the mother that educated your son would be the same mother that knew how to set boundaries, say no and be comfortable in her own skin (if that makes sense). That is exactly what I feel like. Unfortuantely they stripped you of this and it's been your downfall. I dont think it's your fault, I think its theirs. As a result your son has had to deal with two mothers, the one that knew what she was doing and the other one that was grasping at straws, grappling with herself and unsure. He probably sensed this from a very young age and got away with murder, this has always been one of my fears, that one of my abusers would kill me and get away with it, because I am "crazy", they would claim self defense and with no witnesses... even though I have never been violent. No I didn't mean *real* murder (getting away with murder must be an Irish phrase). I meant that he knew he could push the boundaries with you cos he could tell you had difficulty saying no.... now he's older and fighting back, or more to the point begging for help but doesnt have the know how. Reading your post about the mocha drink he *sounds* like one hell of a spoilt brat!! (Sorry, no offence intended). I would say though it's more a case that you are the only person that he has that he can really truly be himself with, and is letting out all his frustrations on you. I believe kicking him out on to the street will probably destroy him and ruin all the hard work you've put in, not to mention a waste of all the hours of agony that you've gone through. You'd be perpetuating the cycle too..... Breaking it however, is tough and I dont think you will be able to do it on your own, simply cos you havent got the tools or know how (thanks to your parents). This is where fostering to a good home where there are other kids would be a good idea. It would help him in the future, but do nothing for you as a parent. And you need help too. I wish the system would recognize that. Thank you. Going by what you've said it seems to me that this lad didnt really have many rules or boundaries imposed on him, probably becuase you didnt know how to say no.....not that you didnt want to...just probably cos you didnt know when it was appropriate....God!!...I hope I'm not offending you here.... Also, as he became a man beginning two years ago I became afraid to say no, that is how I react to men, even though he is my own son, and that is how he got this way over time. I saw this happening two years ago and tried to get help then, even placing him temporarily in my aunt's home and trying to get help from they system but nobody really heard me. This lad sounds as though he really and truly needs genuine love and attention, to know that he is cherished, *important to somebody*, ideally you...and needed. You really need to let him know that you truly love him and that love is unconditional. After all, given what he witnessed as a child you are hardly in a position to expect pristine behaviour when your own wasnt that great....and he know this and will flog it to the death if you let him. You cant threaten him with the door because his behaviour is in the gutter, when he grew up watching your behaviour with these men. What's weird for him probably is that all my friends are men. I am a computer technician, how many other women computer technicians do you think I know? None. All the computer hardware and software sales clerks are men, all the tech support people I talk to are men, all the security guards, bartenders, cooks, dishwashes, dj's, and barbacks I hang out with at the bar I go to are men, and in my physics class at school they are mostly men. But they all stay where I meet them, I always come home alone. So, he hasn't had any real role models in his daily life. The guys who did enter our lives were always unhealthy and didn't stay for long, I did my best. If he's willing, sit him down, tell him about your own childhood, how you felt at the time and how it affected you growing up. Acknowledge to him that maybe you werent the best parent starting off but now you know you were wrong. *Ask* him what he needs from you. Make it quite clear that he is as much a part of the family as you are and this is his home, it always will be. Tell him that you *need* his help at sorting this out and that you are going to keep trying, you will never give up on him. Get him to open up to you if you can. I will do that when we are ready. However, at some point you really have to set boundaries and rules, give him responsiblity in the home. If this is his home, as much as yours, then he should treat it as such and pull his weight. And these rules have to apply to you too. He is entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from you too, just as my lads are entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from me. What exactly does this look like? Threatening to throw him on the street is just a more subtle way of perpetuating the cycle of abuse that you recieved, it's instilling fear and builds hostility in his mind. yeah, I can see that. I didn't do that, I just pointed out that when he told me how I didn't do anything around here that if he thought he could manage a household better he could go get himself emancipated and manage his own household. Oh I didnt mean *you* threatened it, I meant a few others that replied to your post suggested it, and (personally) I dont this would be good in your particular situation, after all who else has this lad got....and it would probably cause more problems than it would solve, I think. If he's not willing to listen, or it ends up in a fight, sit down and write a letter/email to him. Dont doubt he will read it, a letter never goes unread. However, I do feel it would do him the world of good to go and see how other people live. Call it fostering if you like, but I'd be more inclined to tell him that this is a great opportunity for him to go and see how other people live. Be open about the fact that it will show him how wrong some of the things you did were, and this is a great chance to break the loop. After all, in years to come he might have a family of his own and this time seeing how another family behave might be his saving grace. Can I go to a foster home? Can someone parent me so that I can learn what it feels like to have two parents who love me? No? damn. This is what I think would have been ideal for you when you first became pregnant. I think social services should try and help, not just you, but all first time mothers that have come from an abusive family by placing them in a family that could be considered relatively normal (cos there's no such thing as an ideal family). Long term it would save the Gov. a whole lot of money and there'd be a lot less children in this world suffering, simply cos the parents had no idea how to be parents. If he does go to another family though make sure you see or speak to him every single day, without fail, at the same time every day too, so that he knows he can rely on you. First thing in the morning to wish him well and last thing after dinner to see how he is and how he got on. When he comes home ask him what he thinks, and get him to talk in detail if you can, be open about the differences between how you dealt with hiim and how they do. Make it quite clear that this is only a temporary arrangement, that you are under no circumstances turning your back on him or giving up on him. I will. And while he is off with this other family you should foster yourself out too.....Parenting classes are a start and I'm sure if you asked around someone could give you some idea of where to go...... ] ok. I will look for parents anonymous. Oh yeah!!.. I never thought of this group. Did you ever consider going to them before, when your lad was little? Well, all the above are only my opinion, for what its worth and hope I havent offened you, as that is not my intention. I'm not really qualified or experienced enough either cos my lads are still only young at 11 and 13, I dont have the wisdom of hindsight as of yet...as many others here in the group do......However, I really feel for what you are going through and hope you and your son manage to get through this. Best of luck thank you for being there for me when I need you Dolores. This means a lot to me. I dont know if I would call this *being there* for you, but I hope things do get better for you. Dolores |
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