"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:RclHg.20572$Te.1788@trnddc07...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:eAdHg.18336$tP4.10346@clgrps12...

"Alex" wrote in message
...
xkatx wrote:
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

You sound frustrated! 1st thing I'd recommend is send the kids to the
folks for the night and then go and take a nice hot bubble bath. Soak
for
a couple of hours if you feel like it. The main point is to relax. Then
re-read this post and the others.

I'm pretty sure I am frustrated... When I was pregnant with A, I had
worked
sooooo hard to cut down on my smoking. Did VERY well for cutting down -
went from *almost* a pack a day down to about 8-10 a day... Big
difference
from about 20-25 in a single day! Now it's back to how it was, possibly
even worse... It's easily a pack a day, which is disgusting, EXPENSIVE,
and
gross. I really do think it's my frustration, as the increase has been
over
the last 2ish months.
A bubble bath of sorts sounds, actually, REALLY nice right now. Getting
rid
of the kids, though, might be a bit of a challenge... My parents are
working
during the week, which makes sleepovers wait until the weekends.
My mom also doesn't really enjoy doing diapers Poor A is still in
diapers lol
Maybe I'll see about Friday or Saturday night and just relax... Get
everything done the rest of this week, or maybe hop in the bath before
bed... Might sleep a bit better, at the least.

21 years ago I was Norm. Doing the exact ( well pretty close to anyway )
things he's doing. So I may be able to give you some insights to what
may
happen in the Future.

Big jerk! lol Just buggin'

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately
(actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?


Yes, by all means YOU should cut the ties with Norm. That means No
Overnight visits, no Sex, No meeting for drinks. Coffee/Soda would be
ok
if the conversation is about the kids & held is some semi public place (
ie The park, Coffee Shop etc..) Not in your house. If your still so
much
in love with him, meeting in your home could ignite those feelings
again,
and if he's like I was, He'll try his damdest to manipulate you into
doing
just that. Keeping the house off limits to him, hopefully, will give
you
a place ( physically & Mentally ) to escape to.

I do love him, I do care about him. When it comes down to making a
choice
between the kids and him, though, the kids are my first priority.
They're
not able to make their own decisions, nevermind lives. He is.
I do also know he's fairly miserable lately. I know he is. We have
mutual
friends, and every now and then I have short conversations with his
sister
or mom. He does talk to his mom on occasion, and the fact that he does
not
talk to friends and keeps to himself about things is fairly out of
character
for him, except when he's upset or something. Him and his brother went
out
one night to walk down the Ave (popular place to just kind of walk and
hang
out with all the different, interesting people) and his brother had told
me
that he had joked to Norm about picking up girls and all that, and he
said
Norm was dead serious when he told his brother that he is not at all
interested in that - he has me and the children.
His brother, I know, is also mutual ground for both of us. His brother,
I
know for a fact, is a real dink at times, but his brother has also been
in
this same position of being a knob and all that in the past. It's only
been
recently that his brother and I have actually communicated, though.

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.)
should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if
and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next
week,
whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and
calmly
tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

You should keep some avenue of communication open with him. I'm not sure
what would work best for you. Pick one, and stick to it. E-mail with a
Phone follow up maybe?? Remember he may be ill-responsible, but he is
still the father of the kids. Pretty soon he will either change and
become more active in the kids life, or he will disappear.

Also do not block any type of communication from Norm to the kids. At
least Holiday & birthday cards. Phone calls...??? Well Use your best
judgement at the time. Kids will remember that kind of stuff and the
tables may turn on you later in life, which you don't want.

I really don't know what type of communication would be best... TBH,
phone
doesn't work at all, nor does email. It does seem, though, that the best
is
in person - there tends to be less anger face to face than over the
phone,
and, mind you, the very few, odd times I've called, he just outwardly
refuses to return a call or call if he says he is going to. I've had the
cell phone turned off most of the time, though, which I think would be
his
first choice to call as he can block the phone number if calling the
cell.
He can't block the call if he calls the house number.
The fact that he doesn't call ever doesn't really bring up phone calls to
the kids. They're kind of not at the age to really care about the phone
anyways... B's 5 and a half, A's 1. B's only interested in calling
Grandpa
every time Mythbusters is on


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do
not
care to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Let them do the work, That's what they get paid for. Besides They will
go
after the most they can get.

Yes, it's what they enjoy doing, I'm fairly sure. Really, it has nothing
to
do with the money - although money is obviously needed to survive and
live.
As far as how much, whatever. Obviously, I'd much rather have this
'family'
back as a family again where this isn't a concern, but that ain't going
to
be happening any time soon.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here,
would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to
his level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I)
because I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells
the kid that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B
asks
and I have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear
Norm tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work
and
have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and
come
over. There's been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue
because
I've almost said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a ****
about any of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other
things to do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've
come close...


Rule #1-- Never bash /put down / Say anything negative to ( or in front
of ) your kids about your Ex. A simple "I don't know" should be your
response. They will learn and you won't be making excuses.

I usually do just give the 'I don't know' line... So often that B said
the
other day, "I thought you knew everything! What do you mean you don't
know?
That makes no sense." (A line I know I use often enough when it comes to
something like, 'Why on earth did you just do *insert whatever here*?
What
do you mean you don't know? How can you not know? That doesn't make any
sense.')
I have always saved my bitching and complaining for when no one's around.
I've found that I've sat down and wrote things down and then crumple or
rip
it up after reading it over. If I really do feel the urge to **** and
moan
about something (him) and have the urge to say it to someone, it's ALWAYS
been at night, after bed time, when I'm alone and kids are in bed. One
thing I could never understand is bad mouthing the parent within earshot
of
the child... What does that tell them if Mommy or Daddy is a total loser?
I
know it wouldn't make the kid feel much better about themselves, knowing
or
hearing their parent is a total loser or worthless, as that other parent
is
still half of them - like it or not.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do
not
want to be a part of this family, based on your actions which speak
volumes, so from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like
this, and without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as
you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always
do.
We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act
towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them is far
from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but would
doing
something like this be totally and completely wrong?

I can see one of three things happening

1 He'll change his way and become more active in the kid's life
2 He'll just blow you off and ignore you and anything you may say and
still hound you.
3 He may disappear and either show up years in the future or not at
all.

Is it wrong to say that??? I don't know. You may feel better immediately
afterwards, then feel like a **** later on.

I believe in keeping it simple. Simply tell him " Look..Your not happy,
I'm not happy, the kids are not happy....What's happening has got to
stop.
It would may be best if you just left and when your really ready then
call
me" Then give him a chance to speak by asking " What do you think??"
If
he starts with the "Feel sorry for me routine", then steer the
conversation back on-line.

The way I interpret your thoughts is if you actually said it like that
you
would put him on the defensive and nothing good would get accomplished
from then on. The thought is right, just not its presentation.

He does have a major anger management issue. This is as clear as day. I
do
know his limits and I know I have pushed buttons, but I know when to stop
and when enough is enough.
I do get the guilt trip type lines quite often, but even more often is
the lies. Always lies, and to be honest, I really don't know what I
should or shouldn't believe the second it leaves his mouth. I now just
assume everything is a lie, as when I believe something he says, it turns
out to be so far from the truth.
At this point, I'm really not sure if I care what he thinks. I do like
the "you're not happy, I'm not happy, kids aren't happy" part, although I
don't think I care about what he thinks about it. Might just make it a
bit more fair to offer and ask what he thinks, but really, why should the
fairness only go one way?

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and
when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a
new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any
contact
at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite
some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as
I
see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to
live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...

Good luck
Alex

lol Thanks, I know I need it right now. It's kind of nice, though, to
hear a perspective more from the other side, as far as how to go about it
all. I don't want to cut him out of my life, and I definitely do not
want to cut him out of B or A's life. I also don't want them to go
through all this turmoil that has been around for a little while now, and
I do think it would be different if they were older. Yes, I know,
they'll eventually draw their own conclusions and make their own minds
up - one way or the other - but right now, I know that's far, far in the
future. I just don't see why for so long they should have to deal with
this or be involved with this, because it will be a fairly long, long
time before they can and will make their own choices...




If you interfere with the kid and the father, you will have that on your
conscience. If you can live with that, fine. In my situation, I couldn't
so my daughter's father could see her whenever he wanted. No, that wasn't
much but atleast I know in my heart I did nothing to interfere. I sleep at
night knowing he spent as much time with her as he wanted.


Then maybe if there's nothing much to discuss, I'll let it ride. I'll let
him either do his own good or bad - either cause his own positive
relationship or negative one. It appears from what others have said that it
wouldn't be asking or demanding too much for him to give notice - call
before he comes, set a day/time of when abouts he could make it (and
actually show up) or something like that.

You also need to consider that it might be very uncomfortable for him to
see the kids with you around. Maybe that prevents him from coming over.
How do you react when he is there? (No need to answer that, just think
about it)

I did think about that. To be honest, and give him credit, I do think it is
partly because of me, and partly him. I *feel* (I could be wrong, though,
but this is what I feel anyways) that he does see what he is or isn't doing.
Normally A goes running to him - whenever he'd walk in the door from work,
for example, she would run to him and grab him, reach for him if he was
beside me and I was carrying her, and I don't know how many times I felt
like I had to pry her head away from Norm - or B - while we're trying to eat
supper and I'm feeding her. That's not so much anymore, and while visiting
with Grandma and Auntie at their place, B was off playing with the other
kids, I was sitting around visiting with them and the neighbours, with A in
her stroller, and one of the neighbours made a comment about 'Mommy's
Girl' - and Donna said something like, "She's only mommy's girl until daddy
is around" - without thinking I said that's only because she never ever sees
him and it's like a treat when he's around. Convo was dropped immediately,
and yea, I do regret that, but I couldn't handle her choice of words when
she thinks *everything* is fine.
I do think, though, that he is embarrassed of his own actions and doings a
lot of the time. He's kind of more like a follower. If someone says
something, he just goes along with it regardless. If I'm there or not, I
think he feels that he has or will disappoint me, which is why he
disappears. (example: Taking off with the boss to go out drinking in the
afternoon, getting drunk the whole afternoon and then not coming home
because he knows I'd be disappointed.) But for this type of case, yes, I
have expressed being disappointed - going to the bar when you should be at
work? Not coming home? I've told him that I'm alright with him going out
for a few drinks or just hanging out with the guys from work. I've only
asked that he call if he's planning on being home a bit later and bringing
it up maybe the night before (hey, these are the plans, go for a few rounds
of pool and a couple drinks after work.) - OR even calling at the time,
before it's long past when he'd be home. I've even told him that I'd be
less upset/disappointed/angry/whatever if it even came down to him going
after work and calling when he realized he was standing in the pub. I've
tried to make it clear I'd rather know he was somewhere, rather than
wondering. I've even told him that if he calls at let's say 11pm (and he
was supposed to be done work and home at 5) and is drunk and stranded at the
bar, I'd much rather call him a cab, ask a friend to pick him up or come
over to stay with the kids, or if need be, even pack the kids up.
I really do believe it's the disappointing part that he runs from. If he
knows damn well he's messed up, he finds it easier to run and hide than
admit he screwed up. I've tried so hard to be calm and not let it bother
me, and have tried to make it clear that it's alright to mess up - he does
it, I do it, every human makes mistakes or dumb choices - it's not the end
of the world.
I really don't know if I handled that wrong in the past, but I probably did
at first, which didn't help for later times.

What happen to the father of your other kid?

B's father? Not even sure... We don't really talk. I did email him a while
back around when school was out for the summer mainly because I was going to
see if he could spare a bit of extra cash after the summer for when school
starts. I realized the hard way just how expensive school can be, and the
kid doesn't even really need much for school supplies... He does live in the
city, but other than that, I've drifted away from the mutual friends and
places we'd often run into eachother at. We really don't talk much at all.

I feel for your kids, truly. They don't ask to be put in such situations.
But kids rebound from a lot. They have to, don't they?

I guess they do... If Norm calls, then fine. If he stops by unexpectedly or
uninvited, I don't think I'll grab the kids and say we're just walking out
the door (if that isn't the real case) but I won't rearrange existing plans
to his liking. Maybe next time I see him or we talk, I'll let him know
that. Last time we talked, I did tell him that the door is always open to
him, and he said he knows that. Maybe I'll just say if he wants to drop by,
or for us to come over (as he only rides a bike and doesn't drive) I would
appreciate a bit of notice just in case we do have other plans.