"Nikki" wrote in message
...
Circe wrote:
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message
...
"Circe" ) writes:
I'm not opposed to vasectomies; I'm just opposed to forcing anybody
to undergo a surgical procedure (or have an IUD or take BCPs or
anything else)
against their will. There are nearly always other alternatives.

Nobody's being forced into anything. There's always abstinence.

Well, there's "force" and there's "force". Telling your spouse you're
not going to have sex with him/her any more until he/she does X is a
form of coercion, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling herself.

Telling your spouse you are unwilling to do anything about birth control
is just as forceful. It is just more passive. If Bob and Sally have a
healthy sex life and want no more kids and Bob tells Sally that he will
not partake in any type of birth control he is forcing Sally into a few
options a) take care of it herself, b) risk pregnancy, c) avoid sex. In
each of those cases Bob has forced Sally's hand, IMO, unless they have
mutually agreed on one of those as a good solution for both of them. Lets
say that there is no mutual agreement though. I take it most people here
do not feel that the first option is any big deal as long as it is applied
to the woman and not the man simply because she has more options to choose
from. The second two choices are then bounced back and make the woman
look like the manipulator.

No, it's not a matter of the woman being the manipulator and the man not
being one, it's just a matter of life not always being fair. It is not fair
that there are only two methods of birth control that men control, and that
of those, one is both surgical and permanent. It is not fair that only women
get pregnant and give birth. It is not fair that a woman who IS pregnant has
the final say on whether to terminate that pregnancy or not.

What I think I am trying to say is that it is wrong-headed to go into a
discussion about a decision that affects both partners in unequal ways with
the idea that you can MAKE it "fair". You can't.

In a situation like the one you've just described, Sally is responsible for
what Sally chooses to do (or not do) and Bob is responsible for what Bob
chooses to do (or not to). The CONSEQUENCE of those choices affects them
both (although in different ways), but each person can only be responsible
for what he/she is responsible for. So, in this scenario, Sally and Bob sit
down and discuss what each is willing (or not willing) to do. If Sally
states that she would prefer to risk pregnancy than to use contraceptives
herself or have no sex, Bob gets to decide whether that changes his
decisions about using contraceptives himself or having sex himself. If
neither of them is willing to use contraception or stop having sex, then
they will likely wind up having more children, but it will be a MUTUAL
decision (because BOTH of them decided what each was willing to do based on
what the other was willing to do). It may not be the choice either would
have preferred (Sally might prefer Bob get the snip and Bob might prefer
that Sally use contraceptives) and if may affect Sally in a more direct way
(at least initially) than Bob, but in the end, it IS a mutual decision. BOTH
of them are having their hands forced EQUALLY, IMO, although the choices
each one has may not be deemed to be "fair" by either party.

Marriages in which both parties expect absolute parity on every issue are
doomed to failure. In all marriages, there are times when one party does
"more" than the other. Attempts to keep a mental balance sheet to somehow
ensure that each person does his/her "fair share" always lead to one or both
parties feeling certain that he/she is doing "more" than the other. The
recipe for success in a marriage is to do and give all you *can* do and
give; no more and no less. It doesn't mean there won't be times when each
partner feels some resentment that he/she is doing "more" than the other or
"not a fair share", but if either partner starts thinking that way for too
long, there will be problems. (Recent events in my 16-year marriage have
driven this point home to me in ways I am not prepared to go into here, but
suffice it to say that both my husband and I needed an attitude adjustment
and we got it!)
--
Be well, Barbara