In ,
David desJardins wrote:

*dragonlady writes:
* According to Miss Manners (also Emily Post and other such experts) an
* invitation is NOT a demand for a gift, one is NOT under an obligation to
* bring gifts, and putting "no presents" on an invitation implies that
* there normally IS an obligation and is therefore improper.
*
*If that's what Miss Manners and Emily Post think, they are wrong.

You can say that as often as you like, but it will not magically become
correct. The thing is, among MANY members of American "polite society,"
for want of a better term, what dragonlady says is in fact believed to be
true. Formal etiquette is basically a codification of the rules of polite
society, right? So MM and EP are not wrong! Certainly if you tell me you
disagree with them, and that people you know disagree with them, hey, no
problem...but I know LOTS of people do do not disagree with them, so for
at least "a whole lot of urban/suburban well-educated Jewish and/or
Christian relatively well-off people" they are correct.


*Putting "No Presents" just implies that you don't want any presents. It
*doesn't imply that there would have been an obligation to bring presents
*if that statement were omitted. That's the fundamental mistake.

The thing is, you would never write "no presents" on an invitation unless
there were an underlying assumption that without such notation, presents
would be brought. It would be rude of a host to make that assumption.

You wouldn't issue an invitation to a party and write "no elephants
allowed" on it, would you? No, because you don't assume people will bring
elephants unless otherwise instructed. Similarly, gifts. One must not
assume gifts will be forthcoming unless guests are otherwise instructed,
it's considered rude.

As for me, I don't really care if someone writes "no gifts," I
pretty much just figure they don't know any better, it's not like I find
it offensive. But many of my older-than-me family members DO find it
offensive, as do many others in my social circle.


FWIW.

hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large