"ME" wrote in message .. .
"TeacherMama" wrote in message
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"ME" wrote in message
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"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
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"ME" wrote in message
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snip

A girl I know gets pregnant a week before her 17th birthday.
Her boyfriend says the baby is not his and breaks it off with
her immediatley, but he does vow that if blood test reveal
he is the father he would support the child totally.
She goes through the pregnancy without him.
When the baby is 6 months old
Mom needs a car to get a job, since she has now graduated high
school. She works out a loan with her Aunt who tells her she
won't loan her the money unless she takes the baby's father
to court for child support. She does this. Dad requests blood tests.
Dad tells the domestic relations hearing officer of all Mom's
partners
at the time of conception....although he was the only one she was
with. Blood tests come back that he is indeed the daddy of the baby.
$45 a week is ordered, yippy. Years go by, no support.
----------------------------
What, did she think that somehow a court order was going to turn this
guy
into your version of a responsible parent? Get real, as soon as he
learned of her pregnancy he "says the baby is not his and breaks it
off
with
her immediatley". Buy a clue. He may have said he would "support the
child
totally" maybe just to get her off his back but his actions speak,
scream,
louder than words.

So Dad shouldn't be responsible for his actions? Let Dad off with
nothing
because
he said it wasn't his from day 1?
--------------------------
After 2 1/2
years she starts getting child support when Dad feels like paying
it.
He sees the child, then doesnt, then does, then doesnt
----------------------
Maybe when Dad feels like paying it is really when dad is ABLE to pay
it.

Dad is ABLE to pay....at least in this case
---------------------
....Baby is now 5
years old. Dad still doesn't pay child support like he is court
ordered and Mom can't get any help from the courts. (Seems the
enforcing officers just have too much to do with all the other
cases....ya know the ones who owe more back support) Baby
starts to see psychiatrists, therapists and any other 'ist' you can
imagine.
Baby is so emotionally disturbed he sees them 2-4 times a month
depending on behavior and emotional outbursts.
-------------------
And this is the fault of a person who isn't even there? I think it's
more
likely that it's the fault of the mother who IS there.

You miss the point that Dad was there....then wasn't....then was....he
would
see Baby tell him see ya next weekend etc.then not call for 6 months,
then
see him one day a week for the next 6 months then not call for another
few
months....you don't think that would hurt a child? Especially one so
young?
-------------------

Children pretty much tend to accept that what is happening in their
lives is normal--they have nothing else to compare it to. Has the
counselor made that statement that dad's lack of involvement is the
root of this child's problems? Or is their a diagnosis that people
involved with the child have chosen to blame on dad?

Noone 'blames' dad. The child's therapists have said (and is on the psych
evaluation) that the childs issues seem to be related to the choices of his
biological father. What exactly was said between the child and therpists is
not known.

Dad doesn't bother
to call, send a card, a letter, or send child support. (By the way,
Dad
owns
his own business, and for the last 4 years sat in bars 6 days a
week)
-----------------
snip

--------------------
Baby spends a week in the inpatient child psychiatry unit at 6 years
old
because he told Mom he wanted to kill himself. What came out
in therapy sessions? Dad did this, Dad did that, Dad didn't do this,
Dad didn't do that.
-------------------
Puh-leeeze! the only thing that dad didn't do was pay mommy the money
she
felt she deserved. Daddy was never around right?! So how could he
have
done this and not do that, blah blah. More likely that mommy TOLD the
poor
kid a bunch of stuff to tweak his head.

When baby started asking why dad isnt around all Mom said was 'because'
She dialed the phone and let baby speak to Dad so HE could tell Baby why
he
doesnt bother. Mom never told baby anything bad (or good) about Dad. She
thought it best to let baby make his own decision about Dad..
--------------------

And why would mom do that? Why would mom not direct her young child's
attention to something more positive?

Because children have the right to make their own decisions without one
parent telling them things about the other parent...The child has this right
and it should not be influenced by talk from the other parent. Let the child
make their own decision of the absent parent and then talk to them about it.

I didn't say anything about giving the child a biased opinion of
dad--I asked why she didn't redirect the child's attention to
something else.


WHY is this child, who has
never had dad full time in his life, so focussed on what he DOESN'T
have?

Because he sees all of his cousins, friends, neighborhood children, school
children who's fathers are taking them to games, the park, for ice cream,
playing with the outside---and the child wants to know why his dad doesnt do
these things.
Is that so hard of a concept to grasp? He sees what he doesnt have. If he
sees his friend with a trampoline he wants to know why he doesnt have one.

And if he wants one, is it immediately given to him? If he doesn't get
exactly what he wants, does he go into fits over it?

As you say he is focused on what he doesnt have by seeing others that have
it....children do that.

Yes, children do that--that is how children--and adults with credit
cards--are. But the answer is sometimes "no--can't do that." And
children need to learn to accept that. This child eventually needs to
understand that he has no power over the situation. Or is he given
everything he wants by mom, so he thinks he should be obeyed by dad,
too?


There is way more to this story than poor, helpless mom doing
all she can to help poor helpless baby deal with hateful, nasty dad.

I never said dad was nasty---he is absent and irresponsible...


Is there an underlying diagnosis that you are not sharing, such as
childhood schizophrenia or something?

no schizophrenia, diagnosis of ADHD and ODD

Ah, now that helps to understand the situation. Do you think that
dad's presence would "cure" him of these problems? I have had many
such children in my classroom over the years. Dad's unending presence
in his life will not fix him--he needs to learn to control his
behavior--and he needs help doing that. I am assuming that he is
taking some sort of medication to help him. And getting special help
at school. Solid, 2-parent families struggle to help their ADHD, ODD
children. There is no magical setting or situation that can make it
all better.

snip for length

Take the kid to the park on the weekend. Send a card on birthday's. Call
just to see how school went that day....All women can do is sit around
and
wait
for dad to live up to his responsibilities as a father.

All women can do is sit around and wait for a man to give them money?
NO to live up to the responsibility of being a father---didnt you see i said
before that forget about child support payments --- parental
responsibilities of the mother OR father is much more than child support in
form of money

You very plainly said that all women can do is sit around and wait for
dad to live up to his responsibilities. What do widowed women do? Sit
around and wait for another man? A home with both a mother and a
father is the ideal thing for children--but it is not always possible.
And "sitting around waiting" doesn't fix that.


What? Women can't work and earn money?
Sure they can--did I say that? NO But lets just let absent parent off
without helping to support his/her children---

Two different topics. Sure, both parents SHOULD be involved in their
children's lives. But, if that isn't happening, "sitting around
waiting" is not going to fix things. No matter what SHOULD be
happening, the parent with the child MUST do what needs to be done,
because "sitting around waiting" is not a viable option.


Women can't take children on
outings?
of course they can....

So is Baby's mom taking him to the park, ball games, etc, like the
other kids' fathers are? Instead of sitting around waiting for dad to
do so?

Women can't keep their children;s lives too full for moping?

You just read too much into what I was saying---children need both
parents -- wether they are together or seperated...absent parents dont have
to spend time with children is what you see, to say.

Yes, they certainly need both parents. They need both parents fully
involved in their day to day lives--not one as the real parent, and
the other as a paying visitor. But sometimes that just doesn't
happen. And sitting around waiting isn't going to make it happen.

Women can't point their children to the bright side of things? Women
are so dependent on men that their children end up in psyciiatric
hospitals if men don't do what women think they should? You are
painting a very grim picture of women here.

No I am not, you are by reading more into this than there is. I never said
any of those things. The presence of dad may have helped the issues. I never
even thought those things. You are the one painting the bad picture for
women....or any custodial parent out there.

Let's see--Dad doesn't visit regularly, kid ends up in psychiatric
hospital, Dad may have helped had he been there. Women are stuck with
sitting around waiting for dad to do the right thing. Hmmm... Sounds
pretty grim to me.


snip for length

This argument could
go on forever, and so could I. Women are in the wrong, men are in
the
wrong.
Men shouldn't have to pay for the choices of women? Women pay
for the choices of men each and every single day.

Are they? Please explain this statement a bit more clearly.