toto wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:39:22 -0800, Doan wrote:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands might increase the chances
of a child going into the street, the literature on the experimental
analysis of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention to
inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of more inappropriate
behavior. Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason with
their children about dashing into the street will likely to have the
opposite impact. Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward
it."
Of course that is true. However, you fail to note that spanking also
increases the rate of children going into the street according to
Embry. A little honesty would be nice Doan. Note that most of those
who advocate for non-spanking do not advocate scolding, reprimanding,
or nagging either. I would say that there are much better ways of
keeping children from going into the street (depending on the age of
the child involved, different methods will be used). The most
important part of parenting is catching them being good and giving
them attention when their behavior is appropriate. Stating your rules
in positive terms is also good. "Hold hands near the street:" "Walk
on the sidewalk." "Cross streets at the corner after looking both
ways." All of these are reasonable ways of defining the rules for
children. Then praise them when they do the right thing. It works
much better than punishment *after* the fact anyway. Prevention is
much better than punishment of any kind.
A key part of his study, the one under discussion, was that children
below a certain age might well be endangered by trying to teach 'safe
crossing.' I fully agree.
The point of the study (and why the older children were left out of the
"baseline observed" group of 13 families, about 25 persons) was that the
program was about seeing if simple avoidance of the street could be
taught successfully.
At six months they still had good results, so there was some validity.
Embry, however, did NOT stop there or make claims they now had a perfect
way to teach children to stay out of the street. At best it was a
direction to look, and for others to test by replication. Such
experiments were done by others, and the replications produced similar
results.
That put the bow on the package.
There is a NZ study using Embry's program was a key one in that
replication. It was done as part of a master thesis and it was much more
heavily documented. At least the pile of paper is thicker.
The point you make about spanking increasing the unwanted behavior is
well taken, and prove again and again.
If a child stops the behavior, under 3 or four years of age, it's out of
terror when the parent is present. Those children STILL do the unwanted
behavior at a higher rate, when the parent is absent.
If the parent has to BE there, then the parent can supervise, as they
should with children that young.
Onother important finding in the experiment was the the rate of parental
supervision went UP after the program was activated. Not bad.
And of course, totally in line with reality for keeping very young
children safe in play by roadways.
http://www.neverhitachild.org/embry.html
"Spanking... increases the rate of street entries by children", wrote
Dr. Dennis Embry in a letter to Children Magazine.
Since 1977 I have been heading up the only long-term project designed
to counteract pedestrian accidents to preschool-aged children.
(Surprisingly, getting struck by a car is about the third leading
cause of death to young children in the United States.)
Actual observation of parents and children shows that spanking,
scolding, reprimanding and nagging INCREASES the rate of street
entries by children. Children use going into the street as a
near-perfect way to gain parents' attention.
Now there is a promising new educational intervention program, called
Safe Playing. The underlying principles of the program are simple:
1. Define safe boundaries in a POSITIVE way. 'Safe players play on
the grass or sidewalk.'
2. Give stickers for safe play. That makes it more fun than
playing dangerously.
3. Praise your child for safe play.
These three principles have an almost instant effect on increasing
safe play. We have observed children who had been spanked many times a
day for going into the street, yet they continued to do it. The moment
the family began giving stickers and praise for safe play, the
children stopped going into the street.
Dennis D. Embry, Ph.D.
University of Kansas
Lawrence Kansas
--
Dorothy
Yep. And Doan has this before many times. He just choses, like a fool,
and self important twit, to ignore it.
Embry would not LIE about this. He himself thought, before he started
getting results from his study and work in this field, that spanking was
a good tool to teach children to stay out of roadways.
No one paid him to lie about it. He simply is reporting what others have
found as well. The truth.
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
Thanks for your input. Stick around.
Doan's about to make a complete fool of himself yet again.
By the way, do you have access to a copy of the study?
Suddenly it's just turning up everywhere, according to Doan, after being
impossible to find for many years. 0:-
Kane
--
Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be,
the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very
alien he doth appear? Kane 2006