Nathan A. Barclay wrote:

"Chris" wrote in message
primarily out of our Parent Effectiveness Training (P.E.T.) and Teacher
Effectiveness Training (T.E.T.) classes, where we employ a simple but
revealing classroom exercise. Participants are asked to recall the
specific ways they themselves coped with power-based discipline when they
were youngsters. The question yields nearly identical lists in every
class, which confirms how universal children's coping mechanisms are. The
complete list is reproduced below, in no particular order. Note how varied
these recurring themes are. (Can you pick out the particular coping
methods you employed as a youngster?)



The more I think about this exercise, the more it looks like something
deliberately contrived to generate a particular emotional reaction.
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Quite right, to generate an awareness of the results of one's actions
in another person, something that is systematically avoided and even
denied by the opposing philosophies. We ARE, after all, interested in
the actual cause and effect upon children's minds and behaviors!!


An
objective analysis would try to pin down how control by adults is likely to
affect individual children.
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It is disingenuous and has abusive motives to even try to find some
group of children for which abusive punishment might be suitable, and
it does nothing but point up the desperate neurotic origin of your
sick little perversion. Child torturing has never been effective, all
it does is act as a compensation for your own early abuse.


This exercise, instead, creates an amalgam of
negative effects across all the people in the group, a combination that will
almost certainly be significantly longer and uglier than a typical child is
likely to exhibit.
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Nonsense, these are what is felt, not necessarily "exhibited". YOU
don't like the anti-behaviorist emphasis on invisible internal
processes, you would like to claim the human mind is some "black box",
one that cannot BE understood, when each of us is totally aware of
what everything another does to us and how it affects us, IF WE ADMIT
and accept it to awareness instead of repressing it and substituting
your "anti-self" abusive philosophy for it. Yes, behaviorism is nothing
more than a mean-spirited and itself a neurotic symptom-ridden illness
that rejects feeling response and the sanctity of the self.


Worse, a person might add something to the list because
it happened once or twice, but have others end up thinking it happened on a
much more regular basis.
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You're merely afraid of being taken to task for ALL your crimes, like
a criminal in the dock.


I'm not saying that efforts to control children through force don't have
negative consequences, or that parents should adopt a dismissive attitude
toward the risk of such consequences. But it is important not to blow the
risks out of proportion either.
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In other words you want to establish permissive excuses for crimes
against children so that your own crimes can be excused, and even
so that you can avail yourself of them when again when you need your
next "fix" of compensatory viciousness for your neurosis that was
caused by YOUR OWN abuse as a child.


If parents want to do a risk/benefit
analysis regarding whether the risk involved in exerting their authority
--------------------
"Exerting 'their' authority", nooooooooooo.

You misunderstand, this whole exercise is intended to show you that
authority is NOT yours, that the entire notion of parental "authority"
is entirely ILLEGITIMATE, and that use of it always comes to NO GOOD.

We realize that your loss of authority will be discomforting to you,
because of your desperate need to feel power after having been so
abused and your power so stolen from you as a child, but allowing you
to pass on this violence to yet another generation would be a very
wrong thing to do.

Instead we have to stop the abuse of this generation, even if it
deprives you former victims of your compensatory outlet, because
THAT IS HOW THE SICKNESS IS TRANSMITTED generation to generation!


in
certain types of situations is likely to be greater or less than the
benefits, they need an accurate appraisal of the risks, not an exaggerated
one.
Nathan
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Nonsense, you're fishing for an excuse to abuse.
Steve