John Doe wrote in message ...
"CBI" wrote
"John Doe" wrote in message
(CBI) wrote

Consumers reports agrees that it makes no difference.

Care to provide a quotation/citation? An issue date?

It was discussed in the December 2003 issue. This is only
available on-line for a fee.
Now that I have shown you mine would you care to do the
same?

I wont subscribe to Consumer Reports to seek proof of your claim.
Perhaps what you recall isn't what was said. Or maybe they screwed up
royally.

You asked for the citation, it was given to you. I think that pretty
much takes care of it.

If you know how to use the Usenet archives, you have no need for
Consumer Reports.

Yep - there you go - a self selected bunch of anecdotes and you think
you have confirmatory data. Naive is the nicest word I can think to
describe your approach.

You had such a great opportunity and you booted it.

Had you cited Nourallah and Splieth in Caries Research. [2004
Mar-Apr;38(2):91-4] you would have had a story. Or you could have
cited Lazarescu et al in the Journal of Clinical Periodontol. [2003
Aug;30(8):726-31.]

Of course, CBI is far too astute and would promptly reply that Addy et
al showed no difference of effects in the International Dental Journal
[2003;53 Suppl 3:177-86.], to which you might have replied that it is
a review and not primary research. But CBI would have pulled out
Danser et al in J. Clin Periodontol [2003 Feb;30(2):138-44.] and shown
how little (if any) differences there are, even in the hands of
professionals.

No, instead you say this:

I don't mean everything users say is true, sometimes
even the consensus could be wrong. Sometimes you have to read between
the lines. In any case, the wealth of available information/opinions is
greater than any other single source in the world, and growing.

A quick search provides me some very enthusiastic and experienced
collaboration, and no experienced disagreement.

As for anecdotes - this has got to be the classic!

...ALL MY GRANDKIDS HAVE ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSHES. ALL MY GROWN KIDS HAVE
THEM ALSO. YES, I THINK THEY DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF CLEANING THEIR
TEETH. ALL OF THEM! ...ALL THREE OF MINE HAS ONE. AND THEY LOVE THEM
[the thread started with an all capital letter post, apparently the
others playfully followed suit]

Though the personal appeal (I know it because I know it) is the one
upsmanship of anecdote!

Mine is not guessing. I have been testing it for years. I posted about
them here 3 1/2 years ago. I know the difference between electric and
manual brushing. I can see and feel the difference.
If they work better.....

They are simply wonderful for those of us who appreciate good dental
health.

What was it you said? Oh, yeh - "...sometimes even the consensus
could be wrong."

Thru my own experience, I know without a doubt there is a big positive
difference using an electric toothbrush (given device integrity and
normal use).

So, back to the personal appeal - goody for you. In the real world,
we use data.

The one caveate, especially with kids, is that if they have more
fun with it and use it longer it may help.

I would caution against using an electric toothbrush for a long time.
Like any polisher/cleaner, manual or electric, a brush wears on
things. An electric toothbrush can and will accomplish more of that
abraisive action in a fraction of the time. You can accomplish the
same amount of cleaning in much less time, long as you reach the same
areas. Since you hold the brush head still, applying it to one point
is very easy. So you not only have the pulsing action, you can
concentrate the action in the exact right area (like in the back of
your mouth). But again, not good to do so for a long time, IMO.

You just love to speculate, don't you?

Very much. Inventing things requires lots of speculation. Sometimes I
speculate until dizzy. But the above is mostly fact.

To which I reply - provide me YOUR citation!

I actually think that is a good thing so long as you can keep track of
the difference between what is your own idle speculations and
what is established fact (or at least one with a modicum of
factual support).

Since I am not an engineer, I have to build the things I invent and
design. I turn speculation into fact all the time.

Yes, that you do, I have no doubt. Unfortunately, you definition of
fact is not consistent with the scientific definition. Hence, you are
neither an engineer or a scientist. You are...a salesman!

Since I have 32 teeth and years experience using various electric
toothbrushes, there isn't anything speculative about my opinion here.

Again. Buying rechargeable batteries and a recharger is important, not
to test the thing but to make the thing worthwhile for practical use.

BTW. The new Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) rechargeables are much better
than the old. They last 40% longer, do not degrade when only partially
discharged, and do not hurt the environment like NiCads used to. Any
modern device should use NiMHs. And never charge other types of
batteries in a NiMH charger unless the directions plainly state
otherwise.

Actually, Lithium Ion is the best for performance and environmental
safety. Power to weight is the best, no memory effect, and the
components are 98% recoverable.

But you knew that.

js