"Kane" wrote in message
m...
On 17 Feb 2004 01:50:51 -0800, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

No, I think I'll write something first, before the lies and balogna
come rollin' down the river.

I'll offer some actual resources, data, clarifications of the role of
CPS, in other words the truth:

http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/

You might want to get with the program and actually read something.

According to The Plant I NEVER offer any data and It offers tons of
it. Oddly all we see from It and you are opinion pieces more often
calculated to increase circulation by sensationalizing.

Here, on the website above, is the opening page to the resources I've
quoted and cited so many times and the more intelligent of you have
tried to lie.........BUT ARE NOT AMONG THE MISSING IN THIS NG....the
truth beat their butts, as it always does.

Before you get too carried away with claims about the perpetrators of
child fatalities and abuse you might want to have a quick peek at:

http://tinyurl.com/2ft2s

This quote seems rather telling about your bogus nonsense:

"No matter how the fatal abuse occurs, one fact of great concern is
that the perpetrators are, by definition, individuals responsible for
the care and supervision of their victims. In 2001, one or both
parents were involved in 83 percent of child abuse or neglect
fatalities. (The other 17 percent of fatalities were the result of
maltreatment by nonparent caretakers.) In almost one-third (32
percent) of fatalities, the mother alone was found to be responsible.
These percentages are consistent with findings from previous years."

Poor Plant and Whore, seems they forgot that part of what I do, and
have since 1956 through 1960 in the military, and in business since,
and since 1976 about child welfare from county to state to national
level. Yah never really want to bring up claims you haven't researched
when you address me, you bozos.

Hmmm... I think anyone with a bit of common sense could've drawn the same
conclusions... and those conclusion are available from a number of other
sources as well but the site you post has a built in bias. They are in the
adoption business.

Except for a few valid stand-alone statistics.. they offer nothing more
than to promote a child fatality review process to help identify risk
factors that may assist prevention professionals, such as those engaged in
home visiting and parenting education, to prevent future deaths. A committee
of monday morning quarter-backs being well paid to do report what many
others have already done... and prbably better paid, too.

Their conclusion are self-serving, inflamatory, and obviously biased. It
lumps parents tgether with primary care-givers and uses undefinable, or at
the very least, subjective terms such as 'maltreatment' to bolster their
cause. Then there are acts of commission as well as ommission and says
nothing about intent.








But then if you did you couldn't plant your heads firmly so far up
your cloaca's and ignore the truth for your bogus claims.

Oh, and by the way, in that 17% of caretakes above? That percentage
also includes relative caregivers...kinship care....of about 30% of
the 17%....so tell me again about all those non-related foster parents
that are killing child compared to the bio production units and
relatives that are? And 32% of the total killed by their own mothers?

Dear me, I think you just drove a bit deeper into the dark territories
and are lost.

Between you yahoos, the politicos, and the
media in a couple of years we'll see the
old blood bath of children come back. The
data will show more deaths, more neglect,
more abuse, because NON of you will face
the truth of substance abuse and parental
failure and viciousness.

Fern! He's admitting that the tide is turning!

It's an "admission" when I point out the facts? Like YOU or The Plant
have the least grasp of what is going on? Or would tell the truth if
you had the facts?

R R R R R R

What he overlooks

I overlook nothing. I've researched for years and been the bane of CPS
in those instances where they truly screw up. I also note when it is
NOT in their purview and do NOT blame them in that case, as both you
yahoos do.

is that the "bloodbath" he
is describing

I reflect the researched FACTS as they are known. Something you dweebs
seem all to unfamiliar with.

is just part of his rabid
pipedream delusion and the harm done BY CPS
far outweighs

vapid false propaganda put out mostly by the losers that beat,
neglected, and killed their children and are not banned together in
denial and friendly loserhood.

what little good they stumble
onto with their abject incompetence.

No, I'm not "overlooking" a thing. You are just lying.
And there is no solution in what you and your little venomous leeches
propose.

Around here,

Around where, you block, your neighborhood, your city, your county,
your state? Where?

deaths in foster/adoptive care
outnumber deaths at the hands of blood parents
and live-in boyfriends.

Well, I should hope that's true, as there are many more blood parents
than foster/adoptive parents, and as for boyfriends, it would be
interesting to see the actual rates....(which I know and will supply
on request).

I appreciate the long hours of research and the mountains of data you
have produced to support your claims. I guess my newsreader, or usenet
lost some more posts....seems I can't find your cited proof.

Would you mind resending....after all, all that work lost...what a
shame that would be.

Non Fatal abuse
is epidemic in foster adopter homes.

I don't see any stats to back that up. I do see nationally, from
commonly used sources on national abuse reporting, that you are full
of Argentian Folliclarity. .

His bitter complaining

The only bitter complaining I do here about you is that you attempt to
lead needful parents that come to this ng for help into your snares of
misdirected rage...and away from the need to direct their energy at
what they CAN do to get their children back.

I notice also my bitterness at The Plant and friends being willing to
sacrifice these families....INTO LOSING THEIR CHILDREN...for The
Cause.

What I am even MORE bitter about is YOUR willingness to have them join
you as a loser to ease your own guilt or diguise it by you all sitting
around and chanting "Gee, Ain't it Awful" when you are lying.

You would sacrifice the children of these families just so YOU can
appear right. I am bitter you are sick enough to do what you did and
what you do.

about our success

You would brag about your "success?" I invite anyone reading to
google on your name in your addy for browser accessed archives of your
"success" and that of the little girl and her mother.

is a plea to have Sympathy for the Devil.

R R R R R... What "success" would that be...the right of parents to
kill and maim their children that you support?

When Kane talks bloodbath, you have to
remember that he IS Commander McBragg,
and likes to exaggerate where it suits him.

When Kane talks bloodbath you have to remember he's been studying this
issue for 30 years and more. He's seen the streams of drunks,
druggies, insane, and all around vicious parents doing things to their
children beyond belief.

The recent article about the mother in Texas directing the on camera
action with vivid descriptions of the raping molestation of her own
daugther by the child's step father was tame compared to the things
I've found in child abuse cases.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4045899/

I recall that The Plant posted that the rate of substanciated sexual
abuse of children was down. When I protested the methodology a little
buddy of It came to the rescue...that buddy has been missing for
months now.

I proceeded to produce more information that discredited the claim of
reduction in sexual abuse of children...as very likely bogus count
based on factors other than actual numbers of molestation, and
suddenly dead silence around here....NO comeback, nothing...but The
Plant from time to time would once again claim there is no need for
CPS because sex abuse was declining....(for one thing, ignoring that
the population is growing rapidly so all population based incident
ratios likely go down for a time until reporting catches up to the
census) and here's the info I offered in refutation:

http://www.ncjrs.org/html/ojjdp/jjbu...1_1/page5.html

This article does a good job of explaining why sexual abuse has been on the
decline. For example...

"One possibility is that reporting behaviors have changed. For example,
there could be an increased reluctance to report child sexual abuse because
of a so-called child abuse backlash. Some researchers who have analyzed
media coverage of child sexual abuse have found a more skeptical attitude
toward the topic in the 1990's (Beckett, 1996; Myers, 1994). According to
these researchers, the dominant message of recent publicity about child
sexual abuse has been that false allegations are frequent, that many
innocent people are being unfairly stigmatized, and that professionals are
being overly zealous in reporting possible cases of sexual abuse."

This stuff we've been saying for years.... and then this...


"Additional explanations for the decline in substantiated cases of child
sexual abuse include events that could be occurring after a report is made
to a CPS agency. It may be that fewer reports of sexual abuse are being
investigated or that fewer investigations are being substantiated. A
reduction in the number of investigations of alleged sexual abuse could be
due to changes in the type of cases CPS agencies accept as falling within
their jurisdiction. More and more of these agencies may be excluding certain
types of cases, such as extrafamilial child sexual abuse or abuse that
involves adolescent victims or offenders. CPS agencies may also be requiring
that more or better quality information be available before a report is
investigated."

Please note.. and I quote, "More and more of these agencies may be
excluding certain types of cases, such as extrafamilial child sexual abuse
or abuse that involves adolescent victims or offenders."

Another point many rant about... and CPS is finally begining to recognize.

And lastly, "For example, many CPS agencies have added a structured
decisionmaking component to their investigation procedures (English and
Pecora, 1994). It is possible that with greater structure, fewer cases meet
the criteria for substantiation than would have if the investigator had used
his or her clinical judgment. More cases in which sexual abuse did not in
fact occur may be getting screened out."

Seems that subjective interpretation has been limited
and the critera for substantiation radiacally changed resulting in a more
positive screening process.

What is demonstrated in your article.. was the earlier existance of vast
inconsistanices, improper screening, subjective interpretation, and
recognization that peer sex and even extrafamilial child sex is viewed
differently.

The public fought back... back-lash is it called. Even those charged with
mandatory reporting saw the injustices that resulted.

Your article give me hope that the tides are changing.. for the better. CPS
is being tamed.

bobb










Am I, and others in this ng, going to be treated to more silence on
issues of substance, and more lies? Of course we are....it's an
historical truism with you KCPS yahoo whining slobs.

He describes low level legal spanking as BEATING,

Yes, suspending children to beat with objects, making young women
stripe to be beaten in church, as The Plant defends as a Liberty
Interest of parents, certainly isn't beating...no sirree, just a
little low level spanking.

By they way, can YOU define where "low level legal spanking" crosses
over into abusive injurious "BEATING," before one has reached the
beating stage...not after the fact?

Show us the line.

So much for "legal."

so you know his "bloodbath" is a delusion.

From a google search on [child fatalities abuse]

http://tinyurl.com/2b33p

Heres' a list of organizations and folks that seem, like me, to think
there might be just a wee problem:

http://www.seanet.com/~duff/ire/kidsourc.htm

I tend to think of children being killed and maimed as something of a
bloodbath. I also think of the parents that come here that you yahoos
lead astray as something of a bloodbath.

You don't seem to think so though, do you?

Recently when stats revealed a drop in crime here,
Police did something laudible when they did not
claim they had caused it, and instead cited the
natural ebb and flow of such things.

Stats you aren't providing. And the natural ebb invariably is followed
the natural flow, have you ever noticed? So did the police department
cut back? Were they reduced in budget? That would have been smart, eh?

They similarly don't want to be blamed when
the natural variations go the OTHER way.
It was refreshing to see.

It would be refreshing to see you apply that to your bogus claims
about CPS then. You forgot that, didn't you, little couch growth?

I suspect Kane would have to exaggerate a
few deaths into a "bloodbath" to justify more
funds and would take credit for the other side
of the natural wave, asking for more funds.

Well, I do confess, I do not minimze by the use of terms like "a few
deaths" and I do understand data and statistics and correlations.

And I do understand chronological scope when looking at policy
setting.

YOU little twits always confine yourself to a blinders on snapshot of
a few events over a short period of time. I look at decades and
trends, and I'm here to tell you that when that ebb comes it is
followed by a flow, time after time over decades.

Hence it makes sense to not count on cutbacks as cures, or the level
of funding during a downturn (the case for the past 10 years) being
sufficient for what is obviously coming.

But talking "sense" to the senseless is rather naive of me, don't you
think?

However sigh, I'm endlessly optimistic and I HAVE actually seen
fools such as you and The Plant wake up and smell the coffee instead
of each others hindquarters.

Kane