(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
Vixen: Keep in mind that while LaVonne and Kane seem to agree
with kids having chores as expectations, that both of them
are against parents assigning chores like KP duty, chores
as punishment.

Yes, as it tends to cast work in a negative light. In fact we have a
population that is deeply unhappy with their work. It isn't much of a
stretch to see that there might be a connection with how they viewed
work as a child and how they later view work as an adult.

By the way, you gone out looking for a job yet, or are you, after 2.5
years or more, still sitting on your ass in the home of your "fiance"
living off her and the missing daughter, while you enjoy your
"sabbatical?"

These are the people who place a priority on
NO spanking, now trying to claim that several alternatives
are bad as well.

No, we actually place a priority on using other methods, non-punitive
ones, to discipline children. Teaching a child doesn't require pain.

But you are correct. Psychological abuse is a not a fit tactic for
replacement of CP. And it is psychological abuse to train a child to
see work as onerous punishment. My own children are eager workers that
enjoy their professions.

I made work for them as children something they strived to do out of
pleasure, not a punishment. That wanted to work...and thought of it as
enjoyable as play.

I am still wondering if any of the
anti-spankers are going to reject this new level of the game
that the zealots are playing.

We are not more monolithic in our thinking as you nasty little child
haters are. But in your case you do all agree that pain is a valid
teaching tool, while we have little trouble agreeing that pain is not
such a good thing for children.

I suspect that among non-spankers and anti-spankers
there are many who will NOT go along with this new
"social crime" concept.

I am pleased to debate reasonable people that can at least agree that
CP isn't an acceptable method of discipline. YOU are not among that
group, obviously.

Kane and LaVonne seem to be
evolving their rhetoric into new intrusions in what
resembles "mission creep".

Actually LaVonne and do not agree on the punishment issue. She is, if
I recall correctly, willing to use parent directed aversion to
discipline. She certainly doesn't, however, push it as a be all end
all solution for unwanted behaviors.

She'll correct me if I misunderstand her postings.

I have found repeatedly in my work with children that the further I
stayed from parent or caregiver administered punishments the more
skilled I became at a complete shift to more successful cooperation
from the child.

Children that see the parent or caregiver as a helper and supporter
tend to be more compliant because they are too busy learning to get
into resistence.

Even non-spankers now need to beware the likes of
Kane, LaVonne, Fox, Field and Strauss.

Nice try. No cigar. We have no problem with this issue. Even were we
disagree, and it isn't often, we know we are working toward a similar
goal. That goal is to bury you savages and your child abuse you
relable to avoid the embarrassment.

I notice for instance that after all these years not a single person
has taken up Chris' challenge to provide a better tape than the one he
provides. No one is brave enough, because deep down they know the
truth of their savagery and mental abberation in spanking children, to
put up that tape.

Now even non-spankers can be called Child Abusers.

Yes, of course they can, if they are using other methods that are in
fact abusive.

While some will absorb every newly evolved theory
no matter how crackpot, I suspect that a good size
portion of non-spankers and anti-spankers might
actually put a halt to this rabid socialist crap.

Don't you wish.

Non-spankers tend to be open to find more and more nonabusive methods
of parenting. The read, they discuss with each other, they experiment
with their children to see what works and doesn't. Most tend to find
what I found...the less aversive an intervention is the more powerful
it is in gaining compliance and the more desireable behavior from the
child.

Now if you want your child to grow up to be yet another cold blooded
child torturer you will continue the methods of the punishers.

This crap you offer is so transparent as to be laughable. There is no
non-spanking camp to attempt to split. We are mindless twits
dedicated, as you spankers are, to one method of parenting.

It's the spankers that don't support each other.

You just wallow together in your sickness and stupidity shoring up the
flimsy protection against admitting you are sick as a result of the
beatings and emotional pain of YOUR childhoods.

So, put up that tape. In fact put up a video of a spanking of a child
by one of you and show us and yourselves the sick reality of
"spanking" for discipline.

Not a one of you has the guts.

And you know the most probable outcome...MORE spankers will, in shock
at what it looks like from outside, distance themselves from the sick
practice and seek information and training on how to parent without
pain and humiliation of the child.

What does that tell you, Greegor the Whore?

Kane