On 19 Nov 2003 02:27:29 -0800, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

Daniel: Twisted but funny.

Kane wrote
In fact we have a population that is deeply unhappy
with their work. It isn't much of a stretch to see
that there might be a connection with how they viewed
work as a child and how they later view work as an adult.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Yes, it is. Nice of you to notice.

Erosion of pay, erosion of job security,
erosion of benefits, pensions that evaporated,
Enron, Anderson Accounting, etc..

That isn't the issue. In fact it's the psychologically healthy
individual who is most free to cut themselves loose from such public
calamities and will find work they like again.

Now let me see...haven't I seen it claimed in this very ng that about
90% or more of Americans are spanked and punished, no doubt a few with
punitive chores? Yes I think I have seen that.

Could it be possible the very progenitors of the economic chaos were
among such victims of childhood abusive parenting? Naw, we just know
that all those Enron and other company execs where among the
unspanked....R R R R

Those are just affectations of people who got
a bad work view in their youth. Right!

The executives that pulled off the immoral financial manipulations?
Why yes. The victims that were in their employ? Possibly.

But the latter didn't create the problem out of their childhood
experience. I'd bet those that were raised with healthy parenting
methods that included respect for work by NOT using it for punishment
had less trouble getting over the losses though.

They seem to be such healthy folks.

Of course, this all deflects away from any idea
that you might be deeply unhappy with your own work.

Yah gotta be kiddin' Can you think of anyone you read in these related
ngs that is more exhuberent and full of joy and fun than me? I LOVE to
pound you assholes. It's how I relax after a hard day of plotting
against CPS.

No, pal. I have a ball at what I do. Rarely in my life have I
tolerated bad working conditions. I always move up. Always.

By the way, you gone out looking for a job yet, or are you, after
2.5
years or more, still sitting on your ass in the home of your
"fiance"
living off her and the missing daughter, while you enjoy your
"sabbatical?"

I'm independent!

We know. It shows.

How you do that independence is the moral question, now isn't it.

These are the people who place a priority on
NO spanking, now trying to claim that several alternatives
are bad as well.

No, we actually place a priority on using other methods,
non-punitive ones, to discipline children.
Teaching a child doesn't require pain.

But do extra chores cause pain?

Yes, if they are punitive. The point was, as a parent (which you
thankfully are not) does one wish the child to grow up thinking of
work as onerous or attractive and a desirable activity.

If so, wouldn't that also apply to the chores
that are obligations every kid should have?

No, not if they are not coupled with others that are punitive. I
described not long ago in these ngs how I introduced "work" to my
children. They were practically running me down to get to be allowed
to do the laundry, scrub the kitchen floor, pull weeds with me in the
garden.

Yah see, Prick, folks like you that come from a punishment model can't
for a moment allow themselves to think of work as joy. My kids and
plenty of others I've known do so.

In watching them "work" it is hard to believe they are "working"
because of the intensity they give to the activity. They are obviously
enjoying it.

Did you "mission creep" into saying that kids
should not have obligatory chores at home?

Where did you see me say that? In fact I very carefully described how
I went about introducing them to work as desireable and to be sought
out for the satisfaction.

Besides cleaning up their own room, and their
own messes elsewhere in the house, I mean.

Ah, the liar stretches. Working really hard to try and create
something are we?

You think like a punitive parent. I thought like a trainer and coach.
I motived through gentle means. Sometimes a little tricky, but hey,
that's what working with other humans requires some of the time.

Mostly my kids just grew up working alongside me and they saw the joy
I took in my work and their world view was the same by absorbtion and
example.

Now in YOUR case, what would a child see of the work world?

But you are correct. Psychological abuse is a not a fit tactic for
replacement of CP. And it is psychological abuse to train a child
to
see work as onerous punishment. My own children are eager workers
that
enjoy their professions.

That's why the military gives people cookies and milk
to keep them from going AWOL.

I made work for them as children something they strived to do out
of
pleasure, not a punishment. That wanted to work...and thought of it
as
enjoyable as play.

And now they find flipping burgers like you enjoyable?

My daugher's first off the ranch job at 17 was working at KFC. Stunned
me, because she had more than enough mind to do less what to me was
grim work. She thrived. Ever been in the back of a KFC? You can feel
the grease in the air...ugh. I have one tough daughter, the same one
that at three was such an adventurer who I didn't squash, but
encouraged.

In a month she was assistant manager. Six, a manager. She just loved,
as she still does, the hardest work she can find. Drives a big pickup
and maintains it herself. Her age ten birthday present was a good auto
mechanics tool set from me. And a solid gross of imported silk
scarves. A very well rounded women.

She'd not be a victim like you pray on. Hell, she'd teach you
livestock castration with you as model if you tried on her what you
did to your "fiance."

So yes, if that were what she chose to set her mind to, she's be
perfectly happy flipping burgers and probably would set records for
speed and quality...as she does now in bookkeeping and accounting, her
field.

I am still wondering if any of the
anti-spankers are going to reject this new level of the game
that the zealots are playing.

We are not more monolithic in our thinking as you nasty little
child
haters are. But in your case you do all agree that pain is a valid
teaching tool, while we have little trouble agreeing that pain is
not
such a good thing for children.

I suspect that among non-spankers and anti-spankers
there are many who will NOT go along with this new
"social crime" concept.

I am pleased to debate

Is that what this is?

Well, yes, except for when you are lying.

It's all about you debating and pontificating your wonderfulness.

I've lived and continue to live a very rich and full life. I'm sorry
if it hurts that you have only your ass sitting gigolo life to look at
and your new business of bottle and can recycling...and you even lie
about that.

Just got a call from my doctor yesterday (I live waaaay out in the
country) about my annual exam and lab results. Seems I'm healthy as a
horse. Sorry. I know that diappoints you. I'll probably outlive
you...but then I haven't displaced any little girls by giving them
cold naked showers while I stood by.

Except for creeps like you I have no enemies.

Seems like you've got some unresolved "issues" that are
not exactly topics for your mental masturbation debating.

What would my unresolved issues be then, Herr Doctor?

reasonable people that can at least agree that
CP isn't an acceptable method of discipline. YOU are not among that
group, obviously.

Obviously.

Obviously.

Kane and LaVonne seem to be
evolving their rhetoric into new intrusions in what
resembles "mission creep".

I notice you avoided the point about "mission creep".

What would you like me to respond with? That you lie as usual? Because
you do. There's on "mission creep." LaVonne and I have been fully
disclosing our position on spanking for some years now. The only
possible misunderstanding on your part that you might think is
"mission creep" is when we run across new data and information that
expands the position of non-punitive parenting.

The idea that punitive parents are coming closer and closer to being
controlled by the state isn't OUR idea. It's the public's. And it's
coming not because WE want it (in fact I've stated in aps that I do
not want it) is going to be a gift from creatins such as you that
don't get the point, and wallow in your power and sick control of
little children.

Children that see the parent or caregiver as a helper and supporter
tend to be more compliant because they are too busy learning to get
into resistence.

Golly, Kane, us CAT TRAINERS never thought of that!

So tell us, Whore, can your cat bark, and can you punish a child into
not wetting themselves?

That goal is to bury you savages and your child abuse you
relable to avoid the embarrassment.

Has this goal been ratified by the rank and file?

More all the time. From nearly 100% of the schools using CP to less
than half currently would be, I'd say, some intrusion into the file of
the ranks, now wouldn't you?

Criminals aren't very comfortable with what stops their predations,
and child abusers less so. Their voice isn't the one the public will
listen to.

NOW had to kick out the radicals a few years ago
before the rank and file mambers got their messages out.

Yes, I tend to think of the radicals as the "spankers", don't you? And
the moderates as more reasonable and thoughtful in promoting human
rights over one sex or the other. I think of them as non-punitive.

Thanks for the good example of my point.

You just keep doing that. When are you ever going to learn....r r r r

I notice for instance that after all these years not a single
person
has taken up Chris' challenge to provide a better tape than the one
he
provides. No one is brave enough, because deep down they know the
truth of their savagery and mental abberation in spanking children,
to
put up that tape.

Yeah, mental abberation. sure.

So you have sent in your own child spanking tape then, I presume. You
will lead the way then.

Yes, mental abberations. Very sure indeed.

Now even non-spankers can be called Child Abusers.

Yes, of course they can, if they are using other methods that are
in
fact abusive.

Nobody is not, according to Strauss's latest.
But does having some flakey radical CALL every
parent a Child Abuser really make it so?
Especially after Strauss having to eat his words
about prior biased screwups on his research?

I find that the media tends to report the extreme view and their own
sell the advertising bias. If Strauss claims to have found emotional
abuse in one hundred percent of families my guess is that the media
failed to report the various levels, from seldom and mild, to frequent
and severe.

They are, like you, prone to lie for their own reasons.

Tis a shame really, but intelligent folks have learned to account for
it and that is seen in our growing immunity to advertising.

Why haven't YOU figured that out yet?

Non-spankers tend to be open to find more and more nonabusive
methods
of parenting. The read, they discuss with each other, they
experiment
with their children to see what works and doesn't. Most tend to
find
what I found...the less aversive an intervention is the more
powerful
it is in gaining compliance and the more desireable behavior from
the
child.

Is that why Child Protection is TEN YEARS BEHIND
on compliance? Somebody wanted a less aversive
way to make them comply with their contract?

I know you have this need to spew in your rabid fashion every hundred
lines or so of posting, but we were talking about CP and children,
were we not?

Your question is senseless in that context. But then you render
yourself senseless by sitting on your brain so long it goes to sleep.

Now if you want your child to grow up to be
yet another cold blooded child torturer you
will continue the methods of the punishers.

Cycle of Abuse garbage again eh? GAO disproved.

I've wondered about how they could be so far off. How about a citation
and source access. I'd like to look at how they came to that
conclusion when field work shows different.

Intergenerational child abuse isn't a fantasy. And anyone with half a
brain could figure out, given that it's well established, that about
80% of all learning is by example.

Even airline pilots and surgeons learn most of what they need to do by
watching and following the example of more experienced collegues.

This crap you offer is so transparent as to be laughable. There is
no
non-spanking camp to attempt to split. We are mindless twits
dedicated, as you spankers are, to one method of parenting.

Ah. OK.

Even the mentally disabled would spot a typo when they see one. But
then that's about all you've got going for you and our argument.

It should have been, "We are NOT mindless twits dedicated, as you
spankers are, to one method of parenting."

But then you have to have at least one break every now and then.
Enjoy.

It's the spankers that don't support each other.

Most are busy doing rather than talking about it, KANE.

YOU? R R R R Hardly.

You just wallow together in your sickness and stupidity shoring up
the
flimsy protection against admitting you are sick as a result of the
beatings and emotional pain of YOUR childhoods.

Bring on the violins! I believe in the use of violins!

Your scummy attitude toward children is already well known by all
here, Prick. Of course you don't consider it sick to beat and cause
emotional pain. You don't have to advertise.

So, put up that tape. In fact put up a video of a spanking of a
child
by one of you and show us and yourselves the sick reality of
"spanking" for discipline.

Um, Kane, wouldn't exhibition or even possession of same
be considered child pornography?

Oh? You couldn't be admitting to what I've just been claiming, now can
you?

Let's assume the child is clothed, and the spanker as well. And that
it's all very calculated and delivered in a controlled manner, just as
the tape Chris has posted.

Chris' has been posted for years and years and no charges of
pornography have been brought against him.

On the other hand, I'm inclinded to a personal belief that such
behavior is subconsciously sexual on the part of the spanker now
matter what their rationale for hitting a child might be.

Not a one of you has the guts.

You chatter like a chimp, high in your tree.

Not one of you has the guts.

Throw some scat little monkey!

Not one of you has the guts.

Sweet innocent little scat throwing monkey.

Not one of you has the guts.

And it's spankers that are the **** throwers. It's an insult to nature
to do that to a child.

And you know the most probable outcome...MORE
spankers will, in shock at what it looks like
from outside, distance themselves from the sick
practice and seek information and training
on how to parent without pain and humiliation
of the child.

What does that tell you, Greegor the Whore?

By that reasoning, people should stop having babies also.

Spankers observing other spankers spanking is akin to having babies
how again?

It can be an icky, messy process.

I would say that spanking is all of that and more.

As the girls say "ewwie!".

Girls viewing or listening to spanking videos or tapes would say
"ewwie!"?

I think women would be more likely to want to wring the spanker's
necks. And you'd hear some rather strong language...not "ewwie!"

So, Whore. Workin' on getting Chris that tape?

Brave little Greegor.

Kane