I'll respond in sections.

0:- wrote:

LaVonne:

This study
clearly shows that while the adverse effects of physical disipline were
less in countries where it was considered the norm, it was still
associated with adverse outcomes for children, including more anxiety
and aggresstion.


Did you find anything in the study that would suggest physical
discipline is NOT harmful?

No.

Or that the findings are invalidated by the suggestions that more study
is needed? Or the standard declaration of the limitations of the study
making the findings invalid?

Absolutely not.

How many research reports have you read that didn't say, usually in
introduction or conclusion, that "more study is indicated...." or words
to that effect?

Most research indicates that more study is indicated. That's because
replication adds to the strength of the results. I wonder if a study
would even been published, in any discipline, that didn't conclude with
the need for more study. I doubt it. The more empirical data, from
study after study, the more faith one can put into the study. That's
what's so wonderful about all the spanking research, that goes back
decades. Nothing that I have read, nor that anyone on this ng has has
posted, even suggests that spanking is preferrable over other methods,
or that spanking doesn't carry harm to the victim.

And would you believe any part of a study that did not enumerate the
limitations of the methods?

No.


Ever seen a social science research study (experimental or survey) that
didn't so proceed?

Not one that was published in a peer reviewed research journal.

And all survey's suffer from similar limitations. This one appeared to
have considerable scope though. Many countries and many families. Hard
to ignore such information...at least for honest people. 0:-

The scope of this study was incredibly impressive, and was
groundbreaking research.

Good research always leaves the door open and the welcome mat out this
way to invite peer review. Heard any negative peer review so far?

No.

I'd
be interested in the arguments about this survey study. I'm sure we'll
see some lively debate in the social science field over this one. The
U.N. of course will likely check in at some point.

We'll see!

The only garb...s'cuse me, "reports" I've seen that fail to examine
it's own limitations are the babblings of those such as Lazerlere and
various books by Dobson and similar.

Lazerlere has been discounted in the field of academic study, and Dobson
never entered the field. He's never researched or written anything with
a sound scientific base. Dobson writes fiction, and his books have no
references to his claims.

The title of this report, "Physical Discipline and Children's
Adjustment: Cultural
Normativeness as a Moderator." sets the limits, and provides the
context very well.

I agree

And it establishes that "normativeness," -- that is how much physical
discipline is accepted or not in a culture -- does not account for
negative outcomes. There is still negative outcome despite high levels
of acceptance of the practice CP.

This is the crux of this study, Kane. Regardless of the culturally
"normativeness", physical discipline still resulted in negative outcomes
over non-physical discipline.

Of course something those closer to child and family issue
professionally have known for some time.

Some child and family issue professionals, Kane. We have hitters is
that field as well.

Even where everyone beats their child and everyone agrees it's right to
do there are still undesirable social outcomes, individually and
collectively.

And this is what is so amazing about this research. Norms do not negate
the negative effects of physical punishment.

These who are seeing those negative outcomes first hand find such
reseach highly redundant and to smile knowingly over.

But then, the policy makers need such information to consider changes
in law or new legislation. I'm looking forward to sending some copies
to various lawmakers when we have some peer review and response to it
to consider for a more balanced presentation.

We already have "peer review" for without "peer review" the study would
never have been accepted for publication in Child Development journal.
What may now happen is a response in Child Development to the research.

LaVonne

Kane