Robyn Kozierok wrote:
In article ,
illecebra wrote:

| I like to think that what I want for my children will reflect what
| will work for them, including what they want, but also what I believe
| they can handle.

But do you intend to set an ultimatum (i.e. "my way or no college"), or
to let them have a say in the decision?

Tough question, and one I'm sure I can't answer yet. If they can
convince me that their preference represents a reasonable and
well-thought-out plan that has a good chance of working out for them,
then I would support them in that choice. But I'm not going to say
that I will open my wallet and let them do whatever they want. There
may be choices I would not be willing to facilitate.

At least you're willing to listen Perhaps I'm overly jaded on such
things, I just have spent a lot more time around really horrible parents
than I have around good ones (my own being the exception

| I think that with the new workload of college classes, new
| responsibilities of living away from home for the first time, having
| meals cooked and bathrooms cleaned for them makes the whole deal a
| lot more manageable.

I think that if someone starting college isn't already doing all their
own laundry, cooking at least a fair share of meals, and doing a fair
share of cooking, there are serious issues to begin with. The lighter
workload might be nice, but it often comes at a price.

Even for kids doing all that at home, the increased school workload is
hard to balance with a full set of household responsibilities for most
new college students I've known. Even buying groceries is a big pain
if you don't have your own car, which my kids likely won't when they
start college.

Understood. I remember trips to Wal-Mart via crowded bus, begging rides
from friends, bicycling everywhere. It's certainly doable, it's also
nice not to have to do it. I just worry about what the trade-off might
be, and it bothers me that most US universities don't give students a
choice.

For example, my first university experience started when I was 17. The
school required that all freshmen not living with parents reside in the
dorms and pay for the dorm meal plan. I couldn't get financial aid
because I couldn't get my parents' tax returns (my dad was working with
a forensic accountant to refile the past several years due to an
embezzling employee messing them up). I have some really weird
allergies, and ended up living on Ho-Hos, bananas, Pop-Tarts and the
occassional chicken sandwich (served only twice a week) for a semester
and a half because I was allergic to everything else, and it took that
long for the school to release me from the meal plan so that I could
afford to buy food from the store. (Once they did, I was still limited
to what I could microwave, as I had no access to any kind of kitchen.)

A group of people in the dorm had video tape of one of the RAs providing
alchohol to underage residents, so the authorities looked the other way
when people broke most rules. The girls on my floor were catty and
obnoxious. They had a habit of pulling the fire alarm at all hours of
the night, or in the morning when the showers were full of sudsy people.
The bathroom was always disgusting (girls would leave used pads and
tampons in the shower stalls, among other gross habits). Privacy was at
a minimum. I was lucky that my roommate left for another residence and
I got a double to myself. I'd have killed for a real, clean bathtub and
a long hot bath.

This was, of course, an extreme situation. The other floors of our
building, and the other dorm complexes at the school were nothing like
this. I made a point of staying over at friends' homes or slipping onto
the guys' floor downstairs as much as humanly possible. The following
year, a friend and I got an apartment about a block from frat row, and
it was comparatively peaceful.

My parents didn't like the idea, but I am a do-it-myself type anyway, so
the extra work was more than worth having a better living situation overall.

snip
Ummm... this is the second time I've gotten the feeling that someone in
this thread has me confused with Louise, the person who posted that
he/she was working at a GT camp and astounded that the students never
considered the possibility of living out side of residence at college.
Do you realize that that wasn't me, or am I getting a weird vibe for no
reason?

Oops, you're right, I *did* have you confused with Louise! (That is,
I thought you had posted that post as well.) Sorry about that. blush

No problem, it happens. Just thought I'd mention it.

I really don't want my son, when he's a teenager, to do what I say just
because I say to. For one, that would leave him open to all sorts of
manipulation -- by the media, by superiors at work and school, by
lovers, by friends. There are FAR too many sheeple in this world
already, and we are the worse for it. Also, consider that even the best
parent is wrong sometimes. I'd not want my son to blindly follow bad
advice just because it came from me. I'd much rather him see the flaw
in my thinking and decide differently than I would when I'm wrong.

That all seems perfectly reasonable to me

Of course, I think that in reality it is not that easy to let go,
especially if you think your child's judgement is still developing,
and you disagree with their perception of flaws in your reasoning.
I understand your desire to enable teens to go against their parents'
wishes sometimes, since the parents may be wrong, but at the same
time I'd like to maintain a reasonable amount of parental influence
for the times when we are right

My husband and I disagree a lot (even now, when our son is only 2) about
how much to let go. I'm a lot more willing to let go than hubby. Then
again, I was an extrememly responsible kid, even from a very young age,
and hubby was rather a terror. I attribute it to some of the, ahem,
differences I have with the various people who raised hubby (he got
passed around a lot, and not by the nicest or most responsible people).

So, I guess I only want to let my children disagree with me when
I'm wrong. ;-) If only my children and I could have the wisdom to
recognize when those instances are, we'd be all set. Failing that,
I thnk parents sometimes have to "insist" on the things they feel
most strongly about, while trusting their teens in other cases.

--Robyn


Wouldn't it be nice if there were some way to just *know* when you're
being an idiot so that you can shut up and not worry that the other
person might really be wrong? If you ever market a stupid idea
detector, I'll buy one!

Susan