beccafromlalaland wrote:
0:- Wrote:


There is no such limit. Anyone wishing to take a parenting class can
find them easily. Health departments, parks and recreation, mental
health departments, some schools, private instructors are all
available.

In fact, you can even find on-line classes.


In my area no one talks about parenting classes until it's too late.

Who is responsible for that?

They are not encouraged, they are only available at certain times that
make it inconveniant for working parents, no child care is available.

Sorry about your area. Have you researched more?

Most low income families that I know do not have a computer, nor do
they know how to use the internet, nor do they have time to go to the
library to take a class on how to use the internet. So how are they to
gain access to parenting classes?

I have no idea. How do they find time to watch TV? Bowl? Tavern hang?

Check again with your county health department for available child
rearing classes.

By the way, I know many low income families and very few lack a
computer. They are just so cheap these days. Used are going for $50 to
a hundred bucks, with software installed, lots of it, including a
browser. And kids are taught computer use in public schools.

I'm still puzzled though that you think the community has some
responsibility above and beyond the parents themselves to aquire better
parenting skills, so they won't feel the need to spank.

Remember, we are talking about making it a law not to spank. That is a
motivator. Just like traffic laws that require being able to pass a
driving test. Or a food handler's permit. Or practicing law. It's the
person's responsibility...not one elses.

No matter how available parenting information might be you cannot force
people to access it unless you have a law that makes it illegal to
spank.

Non consentual spanking is assault if performed on an adult. How can it
logically not be just because it's performed on a child.

Kane

kane Wrote:

How would you get them to go to parenting classes until they were
compelled to?

The classes are everywhere. They are even free in some places.



How would you force people to obey a no-spanking law without first
setting up a support network, and educational resources?

The classes are not everywhere.

kane Wrote:

How are they not encouraged? You mean actively discouraged, or not
publicized enough?

See above.

kane Wrote:

Two problems, I think.

One is that you cannot compel them to attend unless they have CPS
intervention going on. It would be civil rights violation. I've argued
with state legislators over this when one governor or another proposed
"early intervention" with new mothers in geographical areas considered
high risk, or with behaviors considered high risk. They understood
rather easily when I pointed out the BOR to them from the
Constitution.

One cannot compel another's actions without due cause. And that has to
be addressed with some action. The only legal action would be child
protection statutes.


I was once considered an at risk parent. I was 19 with a newborn, and
a history of family abuse. You know what my local hospital did upon
discharge from the maternity unit. Sent a nurse to my home once a week
for the first 6months of my child's life. She came to check up on my
child, and my physical and emotional recovery. She provided me with
information. She caught my post partum depression. She helped insure
that mother child bond grew properly. If at 6months she felt that we
needed more help she would have continued with her visits, and provided
me with more information.

Sometimes you have to go through the back door to get to the front
door.


kane Wrote:

Two, money.

Who will provide this support network?

Churches, local interest groups, even the local health department
schedules a variety of things to get young parents involved,
especially
new mothers, even providing child care during the meetings.


if you are talking passing of a Federal Law then it should be Federal
Money that pays for the classes, locations, and child care.

Local government would be responsible for the support network. In my
area most support groups for new parents, or parents with problems are
either offered at the Intermediate school district, or at the
Hospital.

kane Wrote:

The problem is that the families that are targetted for this help can
refuse to respond, or simply not be interested, and that is certainly
their right. I do not support compelled services unless the level of
problem has reached a proportion that has involved child protection
services by the state.


yes that is certainly their right, but even having the help publicized
to a level that will continually remind them that it is available would
be a step in the right direction. As it stands now, you only hear of
parenting classes if you are ordered to take them or you are looking
for them.

Yet you support a law to prohibit spanking, without first having
programs in place to teach parents new techniques.

If we were a bunch of cannabals who didn't know how to butcher a cow,
would you be in support of a law that prohibits people eating without
first teaching people how to butcher a cow? (weird analogy, but I
think it works)

kane Wrote:

And while at one time such programs could access hospital records for
new births, and visit the new mothers directly, they are now
proscribed
from doing so by HIPAA. Any PR or marketing of the programs have to be
addressed into to already crowded media advertising world.

As of september 2004 my local hospital was still sending nurses to new
mother's homes.


kane Wrote:

There is nothing; poverty, large families, single parenting that MAKES
a
parent spank a child.

I disagree. perhaps the situation doesn't "make" them spank...but it
certainly makes it easier to spank.

kane Wrote:

A law will address the issue directly.


How?? Do the laws against murder address the issues that cause a
person to murder? No they just provide incentive not to, and
punishment when you do.

Speaking of punishment...what type of punishment do you have in mind
for this law?


kane Wrote:
. Provide themselves with strees
reducing activities and strategies for when parenting overwhelms them.

Many single parent households, poor households, etc. Don't have the
luxuery of a parental "time out" They have to work, they have to
parent, they have to clean the house, they don't have the help needed
to take a break.


--
beccafromlalaland