beccafromlalaland wrote:
Kane,

You have my apologies I clearly misunderstood your responses.

I should work to be more clear. Your criticism is actually helpful in
that way.

This is too important to not be clear.

The current statute for child abuse involves the children being taken
away from the parents until said parents complete the required
punishment complete parenting classes and prove that they are stable.

Actually there are other outcomes in most states. My state and all
those around me do not have a "punishment" penalty. And they do not
take all children away. A fair percentage remain with the parent while
the parent does the various service plan goals.

Some can be as simple as having a "homemaker" come in and work on
programs to housekeep, food buying and prep, child and baby care,
budgeting skill building. And most important, self care.

In 1980-81 when I did my practicum and ended up being hired for a year
part time on a work study program, because of my background, I wound up
supervising homemakers, and participating in parent training. Child
care was provided by the state, on the premises. I used to coordinate
those services and rent, or borrow facilities in folks neighborhood so
they would not have to travel far....and at that they were provided bus
tickets if needed.

This can take Months to Years to complete depending on the severity of
abuse, and in many cases never happens. During that time children are
placed with a suitable family member, foster or group home.

Yes.

This is understandable in situations of abuse.

Some folks have a very hard time getting through it, but have some
pretty major life problems that negatively impacts their ability to
keep their child safe.

I do not believe spanking "is" abuse.

We differ on this.

I believe it is a misguided
attempt at discipline, from loving parents who do not have the tools
available to them to use gentle discipline.

We agree on this, to a point. Some folks confuse attachment and
ownership with love.

If you propose to remove the children from a home, from their loving
parents who do not "know" any other/better way of discipline then you
are NOT only punishing the Parents, you are punishing the Children.

I don't. That's only ONE possibly outcome of a child abuse founding.
That happens in cases where there is more damage to the child.

You can say that a law against spanking will provide the incentive to
gain the necessary skills to stop spanking.

Yes. I've seen many parents learn to parent better because they were on
a CPS services plan, and in most of those cases I knew about them
because a relative (I used to help relatives with various aspects of
foster and adoption) had the child in their care temporarily.

I got to watch the return of the children to their bio parent too.

That may be true...or people will just find new ways to hide their
behavior.

That will always be true. People will always find ways to hide their
crimes.

I'm sure you can see that that does not mean we simply should not have
laws.

You will find that laws against spanking have worked in many other
countries.

And people don't lose their children for 'spanking.' Not there, and not
here. People aren't even reported for spanking. They are reported for
suspected abuse.

My best guess is that when spanking is illegal that won't change in the
least. You'd be surprized how many people that spank also abuse.

Like drug use now....people don't lose their children because of drug
use. They come to the attention of CPS because of the things they do or
fail to do as a result of drug use.

Crime...got to jail...can't care for kids....tweaking...can't care for
kids....crashing...can't care for kids.....etc. etc etc.

The only "drug" crime that will result in children being removed for
THE CRIME, is having children present in a meth lab. Some states have
gone one step further, but I can't fault them on that -- just having a
child in a household where drug SALES are taking place.

--
beccafromlalaland

Best wishes. Kane