"0:-]" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:48:04 GMT, "Stephanie" wrote:


"0:-]" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:11:15 -0500, Tori M
wrote:



I dont think obedience is even a useful goal to have for your child. I
prefer to teach judgement.



I prefer that they obey until they learn judgment.

And until they do, spanking is the tool to teach them do obey you?

There are rules for a
reason.

Sure there are. And before a child can "reason" we have more choices
than simply hitting them to force them to obey.



I, for one, don't think that most rules are in place for a reason. Or at
least often not a defensible one. I have a funny approach. If I sound like
a
retard to myself trying to explain a rule to my kids, I rethink the rule.

Concept works for me.

By the way, it doesn't work very well.

If I tell my kids not to run in the road in front of cars I
would prefer they obey because the natural consequence of being hit by a
car is not something I am willing to risk.

Of course.

If your child is so young he lacks sufficient judgement, why is he
being allowed access to road traffic at all?

Are you not, as the parent, responsible for maintaining his safety,
even if it means fencing your yard, and putting a child proof latch on
the gate?



And there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling your child, you have
demonstrated to me that you lack sufficient self control to play in the
yard
yourself. Therefore you must wait until Mommy can supervise you. They then
KNOW what it is they are striving for... enough self control to be allowed
to play by themselves. You can begin to tell them what self control looks
like and feels like, etc..

In age appropriate language, of course, or you will be accused by the
twits present, as trying to "debate" your child into behaving.



Of course. The thing is, there is a time when a kid just does not KNOW what
is appropriae and a time when they know and are otherwise motivated.
Different "problems" require different solutions.

A common laughable attempt by them to avoid the obvious...that
non-spankers have a far larger repertoire than spankers do, usually.

Or if younger, simply keeping him attached to you physically where you
are on foot in traffic?

The whole talk to them and
eventually they will just do what is right because you talked their ear
off is bull.

Of course. You are correct. Where did you get the idea that talking is
the only thing other than spanking you can teach a child with?

I taught my children to stay out of traffic, at the appropriate age,
with the infamous "flat possum" lesson. It's yukky, but when
accompanied by a little talk and a few questions, like, "... do you
think the little possum's mommy will miss him? Will the little possum
be able to play with his little possum friends again? Ever? Will his
daddy (this while on the way to the store for a treat) ever be able to
buy him an ice cream cone again?



For me it was "you are much too precious for me to risk" combined with, IF
you cannot remain close to me on your own THEN you must ride in the
stroller. Or WHEN you have shown me that you can remain safely close to me
THEN you can walk without holding my hand. It takes a time or twenty for
you
to enforce stroller or hand holding. But they figger it.

And often enough time passes that it's more a matter of them growing
into the capacity to understand...though you certainly can lay down
the patterns you want them to understand later, now, when they are too
young to understand.

That's how children learn. They don't understand "Milk" "Cookie"
"hugs" the first time you use the word. And in fact may "babble" words
that have meaning to you, but none to them.



Yes aggreed.

And we know that by talking to a child, even if they do not understand
the word meanings, they learn to speak earlier.

I recommend this lesson no younger than five, and preferably six,
though one need not wait that long to begin.

And better, stop by with the kiddies for a few days to revisit the
flat possum. 0:]

Actually the consequence in my house for them not listening to me is we
don't go outside. They can not run into the road if I don't take them
out to play.

Tori

Kane

Why do you spank?



You're respondign to me? I slapped my son's diapered bottom once. He was
unaware it took place. I was horrified. I immediately began looking for
sources of information to change my patterns. I have never struck my
children since.


0:]