toto wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:42:19 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:
toto wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 13:06:37 -0400, (Herman
Rubin) wrote:
Parents want their kids to excel in school, and they've heard
about the illegal use of stimulants such as Ritalin and Adderall
for "academic doping." Hoping to obtain the drugs legally, they
pressure pediatricians for them. Some even request the drugs
after openly admitting they don't believe their child has ADHD.
I suggest that grades be abolished, except for advisory
purposes. Also, it should be understood that getting a
high grade and learning the important material may well
be at odds with each other.
This is something I agree with. It seems to me that students who
focus on the grades are not focused on learning, but on pleasing the
teacher or doing the minimum to get the grade s/he wants.
Are you a teacher or are you just repeating a myth you have heard?
I am a teacher and I can tell you that kids who get As usually do so
because they love learning. How many times have you heard a kid
say, "I failed that class because it was boring?" What about "I
passed that class because it was fun?" Kids who enjoy learning do
well in class. Pretty simple.
I am a teacher and ime, what you say is not true. I've taught both HS
math and preschool.
I teach high school English. I always failed math. I hate math.
The preschool kids who are *not* graded are
much more interested in learning everything.
Who grades preschool kids? What a ridiculous idea. I have "taught"
preschool, too, and we never graded any kids.
I grew up in the 60s
when the ungraded systems were going strong though my own school did
not implement them. All the teachers I talked to loved them, but the
administrations did not and the colleges were not very accepting of
them, so they eventually failed except in a few private schools where
they are in place today. My dgd is 4. She is in love with life and
learning and fortunately, she is in a school that she really loves
right now. I am hopeful that she will not have that love of learning
driven out by the school system. Too many kids start off loving to
learn and are turned off by the methods used in traditional schools.
That can be true.
Also, I was one of those kids who did well without much effort all
through K-12. I can't tell you how bored I was with my honors
classes. I often brought a book and read through them (keeping it
well hidden). I finished my work early quite frequently and finished
my homework in school. I worked 4 to midnight as a waitress in my
junior and senior years and still made As for the most part though I
did have a few Bs when I was just too bored to bother doing the
work to my capacity.
I went to a highly -- I cannot stress how highly -- competitive private
school at which I got As in English and social studies and Ds and Fs in
science and math. I don't know why they kept me, but I am thankful they
did. Anyway, I was never bored in English or social studies, ever. Then
again, I had great teachers and was constantly given enriching, challenging
material and lots of positive feedback. Math and science bored me, though.
It is interesting to me that the younger kids are often much more
eager to learn than the older ones. And, that the kids who want the
grades are *often* focused ONLY on that and not at all on learning the
material for its own sake.
Man, I wanted my grades. I wanted them more and more the older I got. When
I was in college and could finally focus on the classes I wanted to take (I
got the math and science requirement out of the way) I wanted those As (and
I got them, too) but god did I just LOVE the classes I was taking. There
was nary a math or science class among them.
Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with signing up for a
course and then deciding it is not worth completing. I
see nothing wrong with collecting a lot of D's and F's;
the straight-A student tends to be weak and shallow in
the important things.
Again we agree, but the problem is that colleges do NOT want
students who have poor grades.
There's a good reason for that. Kids get low grades because they
don't show up and don't do the work. Why would a college want
someone like that?
My dd had a class she earned a C in that she
says was the best class she ever took in her major. She struggled
with it, but learned more than she did in many classes that were
*easy* As for her.
You know, I LOVE learning -- English and history, that is. I love
it so much I couldn't stop and so I became a teacher. There is
nothing like talking about literature all day long -- FUN! As for
math and science -- forget about it. NOT my thing. Anyway, I just
ate up everything in all my literature and history courses, but I
would have had a heart attack had I ever received a C. It's
possible to love what you are learning and want to get a high grade
as well.
It's possible, but it's not common these days. The competition for
grades to get into college drives the kids much more than any love of
learning.
I work in an inner city high school and that has not been my experience.
Most kids are happy to get a 65. Many don't care about the subject. They
just want to pass. The few who want high grades, in my experience, really
do care about the subject and work hard.
Note that you probably wanted the grade in math and science, but it
didn't motivate you to actually love the subjects, did it?
Oh, god no. I didn't give a rat's behind about my grades in science and
math. I didn't care about them. I thought they were pointless and I didn't
care what grades I got in either of those two subjects. I had such contempt
for those subjects. They didn't open up my heart or fascinate me or seem to
serve any purpose in my life. I felt they should be left to those who could
use them for good -- they can be used for good, but I am not the one who can
do that.
I got good grades in all my subjects. I loved math because of the
logic and that is why I majored in math in college and only went into
teaching it later on after I had my own kids and wanted to do
something with children that would also use my math background.
This past summer I took a practice GRE just for the fun of it. It was free,
after all. I scored in the 99th percentile for English. Math? I scored in
the 5th percentile. No one who knew me was surprised.
--
nimue
"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers
English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah