"MarieD" wrote in message
...

\ Hot dogs is always a hit for us.

Bratwurst and other similar lunchmeat makes a better target


mk5000



----- Original Message -----
From: "marika"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Is SRM dead?



"rasqual" wrote in message
...


I also don't know how a politician should go about changing their church.
It's been a timeworn slogan regarding separation of those 2 concepts

I didn't intend that he would change his church as a politician, but
as a loyal member of 20 years. He called his adulterous pastor a close
friend and mentor, and yet in 20 years of personal association with
the man he didn't have any noticeable effect on Wright's bizarre
beliefs -- such as that the U.S. government created AIDS as a way of
killing off Blacks. In the end, this relationship has not ended in
"unity," but has ended in solid division between the two. Wright
joined a passel of inconvenient associates under the bus, and went on
to embarrass himself, Obama, and frankly the rest of America with
subsequent public snide jabs at Obama.

I've NEVER heard of anyone supposed to have changed a minister's mind.
They're supposed to be the authority or leader or whatever. To expect you
to change such a person is a bit far fetched. Generally, you are supposed
to leave if something is that phenomenally offensive. Which suggests that
to Obama there was nothing of that caliber. But the better explanation is
that most people stay in churches on the basis of the friendships they
have formed more so than for the beliefs of the church. It's a long
lonely road when you do that.

He couldn't
change his own state while in the statehouse, and yet he's hubristic
enough to believe he can change the country?

according to the NY Times, apparently he did more than the nothing you
allege

Did I say "nothing?"

Actually, why don't you cite the 800 bills he sponsored? Heh. Because
that would make it obvious how Illinois politics works -- your
political sponsor in the statehouse funnels bills your way, especially
important bills as you approach crucial political junctures in your
political career (as happened to Obama his last year there).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/us...s/30obama.html

BTW, did you actually read the piece? It's not all that flattering.

BTW did you remember that I don't like Obama? I'm merely posing the
possibility that you are being more harsh than need be. I don't agree
with a million things he says and I don't like his attitude on a lot of
things. I will however give him credit where he's done something. I don't
know how Illinois politics works. I'm from a different city machine.
But, I do know that if he's being given credit for it then if he at least
worked towards it or got consensus or whatever, and others are giving
credit, then maybe he did the work it says he did and that change did come
of it instead of what appears like an absolute negation that anything
changed or improved.

With the assistance of Senator Jones, Mr. Obama helped deliver what is
said
to have been the first significant campaign finance reform law in
Illinois
in 25 years.

Yeah. The "assistance" of Senator Jones.

Funny how to be at least within shooting distance of honest, the Times
has to speak of Jones "assisting" and Obama "helping." Who was
actually "doing?" Heh. This is Orwellian of the first order -- but
it's about the only locution to do justice to how the State Senate
under Jones has been run.


I don't know feel free to refute the information provided


Do you understand how bill sponsorship works in the Illinois senate?
Second quiz: Do you understand how the "Present" vote is used in the
Illinois senate?

You need to understand something -- Illinois is corrupt. Emil Jones is
corrupt. The Cook County Board is corrupt. Chicago is corrupt. Patrick
Fitzgerald has found Illinois target-rich, and has about 200 years of
investigations and prosecutions to work on during his remaining years
alive.

But back to Barry: I think you might find the sincerity and
thoroughness of this piece worth your time. Perhaps not, but here it
is: http://snurl.com/3soqo

I've said what my knowledge is above.

Did I mention that i don't like Obama, and that this happened a long time
ago, before this article...maybe when I heard him speak at the previous
Democratic convention. I think that's when it started.

But back to your point. You are not voting for him, neither am I. We've
both got lots of reasons. But that's not pushing me into the arms of the
equally impossible to vote for McCain thanks but no thanks to coin a
phrase.

mk5000

"And worse from us, so obvious,
Preposterous, when you think of the time that each has spent.
Words heaven sent and truly meant to show
Old, may I sit down here and learn today?"--dexy's midnight runners


- S