Kane wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:04:29 GMT, Sheila J wrote:


Kane wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 02:06:03 GMT, Sheila J

wrote:

superfluous matter snipped....................


The response I would expect Kane.


Gosh are we long time friends then ol' sock?

No. I meant that is the response that I would expect from any

rationale

person and the response I was anticipating. I have no idea who you

are,

nor do you know who I am.


Yes. I know. And okay, my response was rational.


I don't recall meeting you before, as Sheila

You've posted 18 times to ascps and only as far back as January 28
this year. My you are "fast" and only on our second or third date.



But what I have found is that when
one becomes involved in this type of situation, one then finds out

about


the dozens of other families that have had similiar experiences.


Sure one does. And one believes anything one is told by one to

another

doesn't one, if it fits in ones current bitch and ax to grind and

ox

goring.

Not at all. But these are families I know personally. That I see at
church and at my children's events. That I've been to their houses

for

functions. Great families. To find out they had similiar

experiences

is ground shaking. I had no idea that these things were as common as
they were.


How common is that?

And you've never been surprized to learn that such a family might be
maintaining a facade? Where do all the abusers come from if not a few
from "nice" families?

And is CPS to judge soley on the nice externals?


People you would have never thought. I believe (strongly) that

most

people do not mean to harm their children - the cases of true

neglect

and abuse are few and far between.


People you would have thought, etc. have turned out to be secret
substance abusers, incestuous child molesters, and in a few cases
child killers.

Do you think they all were ID tags as molesters and have snaggle

teeth

and never shave or bathe?

No, not at all. Please don't insult my intelligence.


You seem quite ready to assume that "nice" families like yours don't
abuse. That's hardly an insult to your intelligence, but rather an
observation that you haven't refuted yet.


My point , or
should I say my opinion, is that MOST parents want to be good

parents.

Man of Straw. No one, least of all me, who has had ample opportunity
to not only make comparisons, but up close with both kinds of
families. I can assure you you are correct...and that STILL does not
address the need for investigation should allegations be made.


Some might not have the tools they need and DO NEED assistance.


Yes? And? Have you been to the legislature to lobby and speak in favor
of the change you wish and are you ready to be taxed to pay for it?


But
charging in and making accussations is NOT the way to go about

helping

families.


Well, your hyperbolic choice of emotionaly charged words aside, what
would constitute in investigation without "accusations" and "charging
in?"

Shall they NOT tell the parents what the allegations are, and what
points, in an objective assessment list (by the way, I've heard some
thoughts that "the list" has been routinely screening out families
and lowering caseloads....you heard anything contrary?) should they
NOT ask.


Subjecting them to incredible amounts of further stress is
NOT the way to help.


Did you not win a settlement on this?


Putting them under financial constraints by
forcing them to hire a lawyer is NOT the way to effectively case

manage

a family in crisis.


Did you not win a settlement on this?

How would you, outside of cutting the family loose without and
investigation, "effectively case manage a family in crisis" and
convince the tax payers that was the way to do it....you do know that
more resources cost more money, do you not? Take more time. Use more
people (or do you think the person doing the investigation should also
being the one to "manage a family in crisis?")


If more time/energy/pressure/money was put to
really find the children that are in serious danger, then social

workers

would not be so overworked and mistakes would not be made.


And that is done without investigation how again?

The phrase "really find the children that are in serious danger,"
propaganda like in it's presumption that that isn't already being done
is bandied about here frequently....but, no one seems to actually be
able to come up with a formula for sorting, other than a suggestion
that cases that haven't resulted in injury or death yet be passed over
and only the injury and death cases be investigated....like it takes
much at that point.


How many child abusers do you think are going to spill their guts

to

you or anyone honestly? The ALL ARE INNOCENT EVEN WHEN THE MARKS ON
THEIR CHILD AND THERE WAS AN EYE WITNESS AND THE CHILD SAYS THEY

DID

IT.


No answer....well I expected as much.


They wake up and try to get honest usually too late, at a show

cause

for TPR.
Kinda doesn't work after months of denial and tons of refusal to do
anything to get their children back.


As I said before, I think parents for the most part want to be good
parents.


Yes, repeating it is building a larger strawman.

The issue is not "good parents" or those that want to be, but bad
parents and those that do not know how to be good parents.


If there is physical abuse in the home, then yes, intervention
is crucial. I have no tolerance for abuse of any sort. But there

must

be better ways of assisting a family than tearing it apart.


Name them.


Most take the advice of the sickos here that try to engage them in
frontal combat (sacrificing them as pawns of course, and their
spattered little bootied dance dance dance, onto the next

unsuspecting

parent that shows up here asking for help.)

You might be even better, you sould so plausible. Got a good coach?


Yes, my father. Who is a police chief of a large force and who

raised

me by himself. I was the product of an incredible amount of abuse as

a

child. Abuse my father never knew about because I never told him.

I'm

not just pontificating here. I needed help and received none.


Your father didn't know, but you needed help and received none. Why
did you not receive help? Who else didn't know?


But I
didn't let it destroy me and it made me a much stronger person. I

have

seen babies murdered in Rwanda and children killed by landmines in
Croatia. I'm an old soul in a young body.


When were you in Rwanda, and I find it odd you'd just mention babies,
as if you were there you'd more likely have known that everyone was
killed, young, old, male, female. And would more likely have mentioned
the collective slaughter unless your focus on babies had a more
powerful emotional impact you wanted.

Yes, I'd say you are definately an old sould in a young body. Me, I'm
a young soul in an old body. And the old body has seen a great deal
that tells me you are shinin' us on.


It's called perspective.


It's called hyperbole when you leave out the facts, and use a lot of
emotionally charged wording.

When you have you been a CPS worker, or have ridden herd on them as
long as I have get back to me. For all the harsh criticisms I've had
of CPS and all the methods I've taught families to use to get around
CPS interestingly the only comeback I ever had was a complaint that I
mentioned the 23rd Psalm (I'm an athiest) in relation to that old saw
about the "spare the rod and spoil the child" that the spanking
compulsives like to come up with.

CPS LET me, in fact urged me, to educate people, relatives mostly, in
the very things that would make casework better. How to force a worker
to respond. How to use misinformation in behalf of the family and
child. How to get correct information. How to access services for
child and family. How to support the client family if you were a
relative.


I think most people that find
themselves dealing with CPS are in need of assistance, not

accusations,


threats etc.


And you went to the state capitol and lobbied for funding for these
programs, right?

Not American. But yes to your above.


Provincial capitol then. What did you do and is there a citation that
will support your claim....and I find it odd that if there is you
wouldn't have pointed to it here.


And the folks needing help are lined up outside the CPS offices all
over the land just asking for some help with ending their drugs,
drink, and child burning, beating, and trading for

drugs...yup...you

got the answer allrighty.

Why the heck would they line up when they know they ARE NOT going to

get

help - they will get accusations and threats.


Actually in the U.S. they do get help. What slows down the requests is
the lie that they will have their children taken from them, and that
lie by yahoos such as in this ng.

Even families that ARE investigated, and ARE found to be putting their
children at risk, have them returned and are afforded services, just
like you request...even homemaking, job search, drug rehab,
educational support.

What happened in the last 20 years in the US, marked from about the
end of Regan years, was a gradual erroding of those services and
funding for them. It's been ebb and retreat for all of that time, and
never a full return to the levels of the last 70's when every little
burg had a youth center or two, and CPS staffed by trained social
workers.


They might lose their
children. Why would they ask for help if that is the risk??


They wouldn't and that's a lie. That simple. That a few have lost
their children is NOT a trend. It's just a lie. Mostly when they do it
is by neglect connected to incapacity from substance abuse.

And even then 20 to 30% are placed with relatives while the family
get's their act together if they can.

The yahoos here claim that the "services" are punitive, when they are
rehab and child development and parenting education, yet most of the
yahoos exhibit that THEY THEMSELVES badly need those kinds of
services.

I'm not saying there is not a need for these social
workers in our society - I am saying that there is a need for
controls.


Name them. Then finance them.

As half our family income goes in taxes,


That's what happens in a socialist country when you have a large
income. Frankly I'm all for it. The extremely wealthy in our country
are undertaxed, and often pay NO taxes.


I would say that I am financing
them.


YOU DID NOT NAME THEM as I asked. You are attempting to build an
argument based on opinion. I'm happy to share opinions, but then that
ends pretty quickly. I want specifics because specifics are what is
needed to correct failings in the system, if they actually exist.

And you have not pointed to budget items in comparison to other items
that would suggest to me that an adequate proportion of budget going
ot child welfare.


Our case was the perfect example of what can go wrong.


What went wrong? You had someone make an accusation. Was CPS to

forget

it because you are nice? That has been put forth as a claim in

these

ngs...."the wealthy people with clout are NOT investigated and

that's

why children are abused and neglected by such folks and get away

with

it." Baaaad CP

They put us through 4 months of hell.


You may know that. I cannot if you don't say what they subjected you
to.


My husbands career was seriously
jeopardized because he needed to be returneed home for 'family
problems'.


Unlike other family crises? Like all families exprience from time to
time? Deaths, jobs loss, natural catastrophe, illnesses?


They made our family jump through a dozen hoops


And those were?


and we were
submitted to any number of personal indignities.


And those were?

Hell, I've had the postal service picking in me since I use them a
lot. The money and time I've had to invest in meeting their ever
increasingly higher set "hoops" over the years would make a saint sob.

And I get no settlement to ease my pain.

You did yet you are still howling as though you are injured without
compensation.


Dreaded outcomes? Our family was almost destroyed over this.


I don't doubt it. You seem near hysteria. As wealthy as you are you
couldn't afford a hotshot attorney? I wonder what kinds of fool

things

your attorny did do?

Yes, we did have a good attorney. Which is why we won a large
settlement. Which is why our children were never taken. . Which is
why our ordeal only lasted 4 months and we had the outcome we did.

My

concern, however, is for those families that DO NOT have those
resources. How do they cope? How do they manage? My heart bleeds

for

them.


So the answer is to cut back on investigations from allegations, be
nice when investigating, leave the children with the alledged perps
(as is often demanded in these ngs), and up the rate of child
fatalities and injuries at the hands of family.

Or you have another answer, possibly?


Near hysteria? You have no idea!


Of course not. But you do seem so.


It's possible to get children back home in as little as four months
WHEN THEY ARE GUILTY AS SIN FOR USING METH WHILE PREGNANT and

similar

problems.

It's been done by someone in this ng, and he's done a good deal

more.

Well, certainly not in Canada.


I don't doubt, given that his ability is as much a matter of tactical
good sense as knowledge he's dug up with hard work, he could DO Canada
just as well as he flattened NY CPS. And that was rather well, R R R R

I suspect they still put on Depends before dealing with him anymore.


2 years
later and we are still recovering.


An investigation that failed to convict and you are still

recovering?

A case you won and you are still recovering?


Of course. It's the accussation that kills the family.


Did CPS put your name in the paper with the accusation? Are they to
NOT tell you the allegation made about you?

Are you aware that when a cop or any other investigator asks questions
that they appear as accusations to the subject being questioned? Hell,
I once had a storage building broken into and thousands of dollars of
tools and machinery stolen, and when the cop came to respond to my
complaint of the robbery....I FELT LIKE THE SUSPECT BEING
INTERROGATED. Fortunately for me I used to teach interrogation ... we
called it "interview" techiques so burst out laughing when he hit on
one of my old ones...that I invented...."are you going to tell me."

Even with all that, the words coming from a large man in uniform with
a gun, got to me for a second.

There is no way to do an investigation. without screwing it up badly,
and tend to the feelings of the one being interrogated.


Its the thought
that someone COULD possibly think that you would ever do anything to
harm your children.


Yep, and to the investigator it is also the thought (they know you are
under exactly that pressure) that you COULD be harming your children
and they can't tell until they investigate, and sometimes a court
decides.

What would you have them do?


That someone out there honestly believed that we
would could abuse the children that we adore.


I have read the reports and I have heard the same words and more
exclaimed by parents that were molesting and selling their children
for drugs....it's an old refrain, "Don't take my babies, I love them
so." but of course they love their habit more.


Having to turn open our
lives to one and all.


What? That IS criminal. The public got the full file on you? Because
your CPS released it?


To have people come into our home three times a
week and assess our parenting.


Yes, that IS difficult.


It is a violation of one's most basic
civil liberties


Unless your constitution is considerably different than ours (and I've
read yours so I know better) our "basic civil liberties" in an
investigation and supervision were not violated.

Your children's were protected. That is hard. Moreso for an innocent
parent most likely. But it is NOT a violation of any such thing. It's
a violation of your FEELINGS, not your rights. And YOUR feelings and
YOUR right don't come before your children's.


and it's a affront to the most sacred of all things in
our society - the family unit.


Oh, here we go again.

No. The most sacred thing of all in society is LIFE. And that IS the
concern of CPS, the child's life.


It's the terror on the kids faces when
the doorbell rings because they too, still feel the stress of the
ordeal.


I'm sure they do with your attitude. You did not have the courage to
teach them the truth, but only spewed your feelings on them.


How can you be so flippant and callous to a families feelings?


I am not the least flippant. I am telling you flat out that "feelings"
take second ranking to LIVES. Children's lives.

How can YOU be so flippant about the thousands of children whose lives
are saved by intervention? And the thousands that are NOT saved by it
happening in time?


It brought back to the surface every fear and feeling of shame I felt
as a child.


Of course. I'm not the least surprised nor minimizing it. I am just
not focusing on YOUR distress, but on the risk to the children should
you have been a family that WAS abusing and or neglecting.


To be judged the same as my abusers?


I beg your pardon. You told me that you won in court. An accusation,
an investigation, are neither judgements of you. They are speculations
to be cleared up. The judicial process did that.

And those poor families you are sooooo concerned about? I've heard of
poor families doing quite well in court with good coaching.

The reason you hear of so few is that cases don't get to court unless
the DA, our equivolent of the Crown Prosecutor, or whatever you call
them, doesn let cases GET TO COURT unless all the ducks are in a row
for proof of guilt and conviction.

This fact alone lets the whiners pretend they are victims, like our
own Whore and The Plant. When NOTHING at all happened to them. They
simply get investigated.


How does one ever
recover from that?


Well I recovered from live crises as severe or worse so I'll happily
tell you. Some help, some of it from friends, some from paid experts
in dealing with the issues, some from one's past experiences in
recovering, and some by the passage of time. We are tough creatures.

But more importantly, let me volunteer how NOT to recover.

First you must do a lot of blaming. Then a lot of lying to yourself.
Then some more blaming. Heap on the catastrophizing, like "how does
one ever" and look for losers to hang out with.

One can keep healing at bay for decades, even a lifetime doing that.

Let me suggest some truth finding. Go to your local child welfare
office. Ask for their data and information packets about the real
nature and size of child abuse in your country. Dig out facts.

You'll start to understand the issue better and give yourself a break.

If you were an abused child I can assure you you are NOT alone, nor
were you then, except you didn't know there were others. Thousands of
others, hundreds each time you experienced abuse...hundreds of other
children were abused similarly.

When you start looking for facts instead of reinforcment of your
helplessness and claim that it's all just a huge conspiracy against
parents, you'll start healing...as in getting over it.


Winning a settlement did nothing but
vindicate our reputation.


Ah, that IS the purpose of the legal system,...and YOU won a
settlement, recovered your reputation and you are still recovering?

See above.


You miss the point. It isn't supposed to do more than that. The
compensation is for what you claim is your pain NOW, and the trouble
you are going to to get over it.


The settlement is supposed to be to recover your pain and

suffering,

not to stop it. It's been paid for by the settlement because pain

and

suffering is real in cases where people are accused and

investigated

and turn out to be innocent...but that does NOT equate with CPS not
doing its job correctly.

We didn't need the money. We needed closure.


Which you appear to be holding off nicely. One of the surest ways to
stop closure is to pick at the scab and whine over the pain of the
picking.


But that doesn't make the
feelings go away.


Nope. You are really not on a path to recovery either, with what
you've shared so far. You are drawing your own blood, and the little
dancers here just looooove it.

You are unaware that the pain you felt on accusation and investigation
is OUT IN THE OPEN and was then. The pain here is subrosa, sneaky,
slow, poisonous. The hyenas circle and nip you with little
encouragements to join in their loserhood. You are relishing the
chance to blame and to declare helplessness.

Yet you have shown nothing, nothing at all, factually, just your
"feelilngs." I'm okay with folks showing their feelings, but for
healing doing that here is like blood in the water to sharks.

They don't want you to heal, they want to cruise through the blood and
drink deeply and wound you further.

It's the KILLCPS modus operandi.


Exactly what statutes and policies did the investigation break?


Nothing? You don't want to heal. You want to wallow.



It did nothing to help put our family back
together.


And that is precisely WHY settlements are won .... to compensate

you

for your work having to put your family back together.



That was done with love and constant, extreme effort.


Like I said.



My
fears are for those people that do not have that type of strength.


I'll try to say this as kindly as possible. I don't believe you.

You don't know me.


Yep, but you seem to want to use my ignorance of you.


Nor do I care about your opinion.


That's obvious. But then why are you posting and replying to me?


Said as kindly as
possible.


There is nothing quite so sad as the fake kindly declaration, when
it's so obvious the intent isn't.


Could you point us to some public sources that tell YOUR story.

I'll

be happy to apoligize if you are real. At this point I'm beginning

to

doubt the oh-so-conveniently-fitting-the-nonsense-claims-of-the-fools-in-this-ng
story.

I'm not THAT public, Kane. NOr do I need your validation. Sorry.


I see, just a little public, just a little within the limits of
eliciting sympathy but that's all. Okay, no problem.

And of course you don't need my validation. I'm not asked to validate
you. I'm asking you not to continue to con me and other readers by
putting out the bathos and withholding the fact.

Don't fret. It's very common here. You aren't the first.


I don't 'blow hard' before I act.


Do I hear the tinkle of a cash register and the ambitious grunts of
yet another KILLCPS candidate for president and chair of a group
collecting membership fees and contributions? You have a lot of
competition. It's a popular gig these days.


That makes no sense to me. But then I'm Canadian.


Less competition then?

You are writing very like a few KILL CPS organization heads were
writing before they went into the business.


I have seen too much in this life to
ever act before I think.


Were you thinking when you hired that nanny?

No, of course not. You were doing your job as parent, but you made

a

mistake.


I trusted the agency. That is why they were paid 2500 dollars. To

NOT

make mistakes.


Yep. Sue'em into poverty. But don't use that as an excuse for CPS to
NOT do their job as mandated.


This applies to CPS investigations as well. They do their job, they
make mistakes. And for those there needs to be restitution and

reform

of the system.

Unfortunately and the thousands of instances where they do their

job

and are completly justified and correct in many and outcome, those
guilty folks are also free to deny and to come trippin' in here to
whine and look for loser company who will back their claims of

being

"done wrong."

Is this not a support group for those very people?


Yes. It is. Does "support" include a place where victims clump
together so blood suckers won't have to work so hard to find them?

You really must google on some of our regulars. I'd suggest The Plant
for a start, then the alwas whining The Whore/Gigolo, then Dennis
Deakin...he's a laugh a minute when it comes to helping families.

There are others you'll met along the way.


Should this not be
the place for them? I would think alt.support.CPS workers would be

the

place for you?


Since I'm not one, that wouldn't compute, and if there was such a
place and I went there and they knew my history I'd not be very
welcome. I've been known to speak to some workers just like I do to
some yahoos here, and get a couple fired over the years.


But there has to be a stop to all these
mistakes. The damage is too great.


How would YOU stop it? You have a cure? Does it include destroying

CPS

and building a new system with the same budget? Wanna guess who

would

be hired?

No, it includes being vigalent. And helping other families who

require

help.


Sounds great to me. Where do I sign up? And what's the membership
"contribution." And are you fundy christian and have other agendas I
don't agree with? And why YOU and not me, for ways to improve the
system?

Interestingly, your suggestion is what I already do. Are YOU doing it?

How have you helped families? What have you found in your vigilence so
far? I've asked for facts and you seem short on them. Mostly you've
spewed the platitudes of the lying I've seen on websites. Half truths,
outlandish claims based on partial revelations, nonsense.


Where would the trained people come from...why from the ranks of

the

people fired upon destruction of CPS. Unless you think you have a
better sources better trained and more dedicated that will work in

the

sewers of dysfunctional family life, with the dangerous criminal

drug

folks, and put up with interfamily soap opera and carry a caseload

of

40 to 50 rountinly.

Tell us what you will do to "reform" CPS. I love it when people say
they need dedicated workers who won't care about income so much as
families and children, so over course THEIR children get to go
barefoot proving how much they care for families.
MmmmmmmHHHmmmmmmmmm.. Sure.


People who have the general interests of family at heart.


I believe I asked you who and where much more specifically than that.
Not a description of their sainthood.

So, what people, class, profession, do you think these paragons will
come from and how shall you test them?

Does your neighborhood overflow with budding Mother Teresa's (who by
the way was revealed as a death watcher and NOT a healer)


Not people
who get off on the high of having this much power.


I've met very few child welfare workers that got off on a high or
though they had "this much power." I've met a lot of ignorant folks
that think they do though.

In fact I've heard workers say explicitly it is one of the more
onerous aspects of their job, that they are FORCED by it, to make
decisions that are so powerful in affect. I hear that's one of the
reasons for supervisors, review committees, and the courts.


Not the cynics.


I don't don't know about that. There is a resident cynic here, a bobb
person, that was recently entertaining the idea of taking up my
challenge to fix the system personally.

He would be more or less on your side, I think.


Not
the paranoid.


The day to day work of the child welfare worker makes them very clear
on what is and isn't a danger. They are right more often than wrong.
That seems to negate any concerns I have about paranoia. In fact I
note a great deal of paranoia by parents, when the vast major...huge
majority,....SUPER majority...will never come into contact with CPS in
their lifetime. They would be better served to keep their auto brakes
in good condition, as something to worry about.


The compassionate.


Well, this will send up a howl, I'm sure, but on visits to court, and
to CPS offices, and the places where they go for lunch, I don't think
I've ever met a group of people with more compassion than child
welfare workers.

Even what you complain about is of concern of them...who to better
care for the families they must investigate...it's a theme over lunch.
And the subject of consultations and special issue committees I've
both attended and read the minutes of.

The consensus and I agree, is that they would have to sacrifice
children to MORE delicate in handling the "feelings" of parents, and
in the end, the child is their primary client...his or her situation
draws the larger measure of compassion.


I think lawyers should work for half pay, doctors at a third, and
those lazy postal people should just volunteer for the healty

outdoor

life when they are not at a bench all day laughing it up with their
cronies and doing those fun skate mailcarting 5 or 6 hundred pounds
around the cold or too hot warehouses.

I could use some employees that would work for me out of dedication

to

my business. Got any?

In your own case, vis a vis, reform:

What was CPS supposed to do, take your word for your innocence?

Ignore

an allegation of abuse by a trained child care person...that ARE

under

mandate to report in most states, and obviously she ID'd herself.
That's hot stuff and very hard to schelp on by without notice.


Perhaps put in perspective that she was fired after 4 days.


And how would that lead them to assume she was 100% likely to be
lying? With her a mandate reporter and presumably a history of
professional child care?


Check
into her past.


Running background checks on accusers while the children wait is NOT
what CPS is mandated to do.


She hadn't lasted more than 3 months at any nanny job
she had.


That's nice. And it still does NOT let CPS off the hood to investigate
you with considerably haste. If a stranger walked in off the street
and made an allegation of serious enough abuse and neglect they are
required by policy and statute to investigate the allegation, not the
accuser.

If you think it should be otherwise, change the law.


The agency neglected to tell us this.


Not a CPS issue and they could not know this.


They refused to talk to
any of her previous employers.


It wouldn't have mattered if she were a convicted ax murderer. The
presence of an allegation from any source requires investigation of
the allegation.

And YOU don't really KNOW if they did or didn't talk to them. And it's
NOT their job. If you are accused by someone until such time as you
bring charges against them there is NO mechanism for the state to
intervene.

You used the law. It worked for you. But your cannot negate another
law in your favor on your say so.


They could, at the very least, just
LISTENED to us. They never did.


No, you are now way over the edge. If you told them they listened to
you. What you really mean is that they didn't take the action YOU
required of them when you told them...or as far as you know they
didn't.

Not guilt on the part of the nanny, other than proving she was lying,
is any concern to CPS. She could be an ax murderer. The accusation is
the thing, not the character of the accuser.

Otherwise when some altogether nasty piece of work saw and reported a
WITNESSED ABUSE OF A CHILD CPS would have to just ignore it based on
the character of the accuser, NOT THE FACTS of an investigation.


That cannot be ignored, unless you wish CPS to ignore all

allegations

unless they are already proven...to NEVER investigate. And if they

do,

to simply believe the nice people that say they are inncent.

That is why I let them in that day. Investigate I said. We have

nothing

to hide. I never knew what lengths they would go to show that an

upper

middle class white family might have problems too.


Now you know. But you haven't told us specifically what they did. You
have told us the reaction you had, and that is about it. They came in.
They investigated. They went to "lengths" to show you might have
problems.

All you have really done is describe a thorough investigation. Did you
attorney not USE the investigation itself to prove you innocent? And
to sue successfully in your behalf?

If she didn't she was dunce and you were very lucky.


So run your story out for us. It's sure to be interesting.

And please, something other than your word for supporting evidence

of

the truth of the story. We've had a rash of socks here lately

trying

to con the group.

I have no care whether you believe me or not.


You seem to be posting a lot to me for not caring.


This is my therapy, not
yours.


So far it appears your are still in the whiney stage. I would have
thought you got past that using some of your wealth, by now.

Did your therapist recommend you do an online support group? Does your
therapist know that there are folks in it that are NOT in recovery,
but are in fact here to bleed you?

And dance in your blood and congratulate your for your injury rather
than your recovery?


The "woe is me" was so thick I considered composting it. And

suddenly

when asked for some details to work with to understand the story,

they

just kind of wafted away on the scent rising from the pile.

Ask any question you like about the case. Perhaps it might serve as

an

education.


I already did, and you didn't respond. You won't find many here using
the facts for therapy though. What you will find is catastrophizing
elevation of your situation to enrage you. They love it. And you will
be steered by a pimp to web sites that will capitolize further on YOUR
pain and attempt to recovery, all the while cranking your rage higher.

And in the end you'll have nothing but your rage. You then are theirs.


Please stay. Please give us something truthful. It is so extremely
rare around here we miss it. Only a half dozen posters that tell

the

truth, on both sides of the issue, and about 15 from the KILLCPS

crowd

that seems to have captured your heart who do nothing but lie. They
can't even key in a subject field that's moderatly accurate.

The only people that have captured my heart are my family. I'm an old
army officer - I wrote the book on cynical.


Then you would have to disqualify yourself on the criteria to be a
child welfare worker.


Have at it. Tell CPS how it should be running its business...and

drop

the platitudes about more kindly and more carefully and with less
mistakes. I'm not asking WHAT at this point, I'm asking HOW to do
WHAT you claim they don't.

Anybody, just join right in. Though I need a half hour to set a new
handle to my manure fork. It's been a rough year so far on your
friendly ascps newsgroup.

Keep in mind that news media usually friendly to the muckrackers is
starting to admit, as is the famous Dr. Geller, that FUNDING is and
has been horrible.

You might also have heard of the problems with substance abuse,

that

seems to be a part of almost every one that comes here and fesses

up

honestly.

So line those innocent families up that you know, send them around.

If

they are still in trouble, even if guilty, they could get some much
needed help here.

I got an idea. Go work for CPS for a few months. I hear they are
becoming increasingly short handed and increasing burdened trying

to

catch up.

I have worked in the social services field. In detention centres for

at

risk youth. I know the story.


And what was your job?


I knew for years this wave of CPS failures was coming. In 1990 I
bearded a state senator in the halls of capitol and asked what she

was

prepared to do about the 85 caseload average in her state, and the
shellshocked workers that were being introduced to the wonderful

world

of homebrew meth. and that fallout for children.

I think she actually did get things going a bit, caseloads dropped

to

60 average per worker. Wheee for the workers, I think they

celebrated

on one break and then had to get back to their desks, their calls

to

go out and enter pigstys with camera ready, and guessing if someone
would stick a knife in them this time.

And then my favorite worker that had a call on a lovely family,
professionals, a realtor and a registered nurse, and they were so
nice, just so nice, and she backed down just a hair when they said

two

times on different visits their dear daughter was sleeping....could
she come back later, and later the baby was found in a dumpster,
dead..and the parents were in needle park kind sorta glazed over.

Cases like that are one in a mililion and you know it.


Nope. 38% of infanticides are by mothers in this country. I doubt CA
is different by much. Over 80% are by both parents. 30% of the
remaining 17% by caregivers are kin, relatives.

And as for druggies killing their kids...where ever did you get the
idea it was on in a million?

I guess CA is drug and alcohol free then?

And more deaths of children are from neglect than direct violent
abuse. If you can't connect the dots to drug abuse, just like that
couple, you aren't as experienced as you claim. Not if you worked with
adjudicated youth.

You apparently didn't read their files. I did. 1980 through 85
specifically with juvenile populations. A few were in lockup for
murder....of their own child or their girl friend's child by someone
else.


You'd be amazed how good people can look when they are in the right
phase of their high. Straight as you and I, well I can only speak

to

how I look.

But stone cold killers. It was hard to find an unbroken bone in the
three year olds body, below the neckline. The really knew how to
discipline.

Kane

I think you have some seriously repressed issues. Care to chat

sometime?

What seems to be missing, in that statement, and most of your posts,
is fact.

What would those repressed issues be?

That I don't like children killed and injured?

Thank you, I'm not repressing.

You'll notice I put them right out there.


Cheers,
Sheila


Cheery bye,

Kane


Begging your indulgence, Kane, I will reply to your thoughts tomorrow.
Thanks. Have a nice night.

Cheers,
Sheila