On Fri, 15 Dec 2006, Nathan A. Barclay wrote:


"Doan" wrote in message
...
Kane wrote:

I'll be interested to see what Doan makes of it, and you, for that
matter.

I am still interested in data on the claim that spanking increases
street entries. Personal observation is ok but to be scientifically
valid, one needs more than that. Like I said, the only data I saw
on the study was the analysis with "reprimands."

At the very least, Dr. Embry's team identified a subset of cases in which
spanking is so thoroughly useless as to create an appearance of its having a
net effect of reinforcing rather than punishing the unwanted behavior. In
cases where spanking looks that bad, I see no point in quibbling over
details of exactly how bad it is. I think you're splitting hairs way too
much in your fuss over "reprimands" versus spankings.

It is not "quibbling over details", Nathan. It goes the heart of the
accusation that Kane made about me regarding this study, that I was lying
when I said this study was not about spanking and street entries. Again,
if there is data to support the claim that spanking increase street
entries, I would like to see it.

The important thing to recognize is that something can be true in certain
special cases without being true as a general rule. Nothing in what Dr.
Embry found indicated that it was normal, or even close to normal, for
children to respond to being reprimanded or spanked by entering the street
more often.

Agree. Do you see that fact mention anywhere by anti-spanking zealots
when they referenced this study. Did Kane ever mention this fact to you?
Does that fit the standard of "lying by omission"? ;-)

Thus, Dr. Embry's research suggests that if parents spank, they need to pay
attention to whether the spankings are really resulting in an improvement in
the children's behavior. It also points to a risk factor that parents can
reasonably take into consideration in deciding whether and when they are
going to use spanking. But it does not justify a blanket condemnation of
spanking as inherently harmful. Nor, if Dr. Embry is right about the reason
for the continuing misbehavior after spankings being to get attention, is
there reason to believe it poses a significant risk as long as children have
better ways to get attention.

Agree, but I would say that would include any type of punishment, not just
spanking alone.

Doan