Nathan A. Barclay wrote:

"Chris" wrote in message
...
In alt.parenting.spanking Nathan A. Barclay wrote:

: But by and large, the system works. And throwing it out before we're
: positive that we have something that will work better in the real world,
: with real parents and real children, would be foolish.

Once again, Nathan, you appear to be talking about win/win cooperative
nonpunitive discipline as if it were some sort of new untested concept
rather than a set of approaches to dealing with conflict in the
parent/child relationship developed decades ago and used successfully in

Chris, this is anecdotal evidence. If I argued that there are thousands of
parents who spank and get good results, you would correctly counter -----------------------
The fact is that there ARE NO SUCH RESULTS! You will SAY that they
"had good results", when by your criteria spanking IS ONLY result
that concerns you, and NOT what the child will do in the future,
or whether he is emotionally crippled, and why? BECAUSE BOTH I AND
CHRIS WEEKS KNOW THAT *YOU* are emotionally crippled TOO and COULDN'T
POSSIBLY NOTICE SUCH A THING, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PROPER REFERENT!!!!


As I keep saying, how well strictly non-punitive techniques work depends on
children's willingness to cooperate.
----------------------
That's an entirely nonsensial circularity!

*IF* they WERE cooperative, then NO such punishment even *COULD* BE
necessary,

and *IF* they are NOT, then it cannot have the desired effect!!

If you're truthfully willing to stand on such nonsense, then it
proves NOT ONLY that you're an uneducated IDIOT, BUT ALSO INSANE!!


Further, what evidence do you have regarding whether those "thousands of
families" rely entirely on non-punitive techniques?
----------------------------
They may not, no evidence is needed, we all KNOW what WE do when we
are assaulted and coerced, and kids are NOT shown by ANY reseearch
to be AT ALL different from every other ADULT human being!!


I'm not trying to say that non-punitive techniques aren't useful. They are.
I'm just challenging your unsupported assertions about how reliably they
work.
-----------------------
They work, because that is the well-known treatment of one another
that has resulted in all great and good friendships DOWN THRU HISTORY!

While abuse and attempt at coercion ONLY causes revenge formation,
assault, murder, and warfare! Are you so ****ing stupid that you
will not admit that if someone pushes you that you won't turn around
and smack the **** out of them, or if they are bigger that you will
not BOTH: Lose ALL respect for them, and plan longterm REVENGE UPON
THEM!!

Between the obvious success of friendships based on equality and respect
wthout coercion, and the total failures caused by assault
and coercion, what makes you imagine IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS that
you have a SINGLE PHILOSOPHICAL LEG TO STAND ON????????????
Steve