"ME" wrote in message ...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...

"ME" wrote in message
...

snip

A girl I know gets pregnant a week before her 17th birthday.
Her boyfriend says the baby is not his and breaks it off with
her immediatley, but he does vow that if blood test reveal
he is the father he would support the child totally.
She goes through the pregnancy without him.
When the baby is 6 months old
Mom needs a car to get a job, since she has now graduated high
school. She works out a loan with her Aunt who tells her she
won't loan her the money unless she takes the baby's father
to court for child support. She does this. Dad requests blood tests.
Dad tells the domestic relations hearing officer of all Mom's partners
at the time of conception....although he was the only one she was
with. Blood tests come back that he is indeed the daddy of the baby.
$45 a week is ordered, yippy. Years go by, no support.
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What, did she think that somehow a court order was going to turn this guy
into your version of a responsible parent? Get real, as soon as he
learned of her pregnancy he "says the baby is not his and breaks it off
with
her immediatley". Buy a clue. He may have said he would "support the
child
totally" maybe just to get her off his back but his actions speak, scream,
louder than words.

So Dad shouldn't be responsible for his actions? Let Dad off with nothing
because
he said it wasn't his from day 1?
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After 2 1/2
years she starts getting child support when Dad feels like paying it.
He sees the child, then doesnt, then does, then doesnt
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Maybe when Dad feels like paying it is really when dad is ABLE to pay it.

Dad is ABLE to pay....at least in this case
---------------------
....Baby is now 5
years old. Dad still doesn't pay child support like he is court
ordered and Mom can't get any help from the courts. (Seems the
enforcing officers just have too much to do with all the other
cases....ya know the ones who owe more back support) Baby
starts to see psychiatrists, therapists and any other 'ist' you can
imagine.
Baby is so emotionally disturbed he sees them 2-4 times a month
depending on behavior and emotional outbursts.
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And this is the fault of a person who isn't even there? I think it's more
likely that it's the fault of the mother who IS there.

You miss the point that Dad was there....then wasn't....then was....he would
see Baby tell him see ya next weekend etc.then not call for 6 months, then
see him one day a week for the next 6 months then not call for another few
months....you don't think that would hurt a child? Especially one so young?
-------------------

Children pretty much tend to accept that what is happening in their
lives is normal--they have nothing else to compare it to. Has the
counselor made that statement that dad's lack of involvement is the
root of this child's problems? Or is their a diagnosis that people
involved with the child have chosen to blame on dad?

Dad doesn't bother
to call, send a card, a letter, or send child support. (By the way, Dad
owns
his own business, and for the last 4 years sat in bars 6 days a week)
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snip

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Baby spends a week in the inpatient child psychiatry unit at 6 years old
because he told Mom he wanted to kill himself. What came out
in therapy sessions? Dad did this, Dad did that, Dad didn't do this,
Dad didn't do that.
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Puh-leeeze! the only thing that dad didn't do was pay mommy the money she
felt she deserved. Daddy was never around right?! So how could he have
done this and not do that, blah blah. More likely that mommy TOLD the
poor
kid a bunch of stuff to tweak his head.

When baby started asking why dad isnt around all Mom said was 'because'
She dialed the phone and let baby speak to Dad so HE could tell Baby why he
doesnt bother. Mom never told baby anything bad (or good) about Dad. She
thought it best to let baby make his own decision about Dad..
--------------------

And why would mom do that? Why would mom not direct her young child's
attention to something more positive? WHY is this child, who has
never had dad full time in his life, so focussed on what he DOESN'T
have? There is way more to this story than poor, helpless mom doing
all she can to help poor helpless baby deal with hateful, nasty dad.
Is there an underlying diagnosis that you are not sharing, such as
childhood schizophrenia or something?

To make this story as short as possible
because I could go on forever, your PLAN B is often ignored by
men also. Around here you have to give your arm and leg and possibly
both to get something done about violating court orders, getting child
support etc.
----------------
And everywhere you could give away everything and still never get anything
done about violating visitation orders and false abuse allegations.
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My point is this, although women may ignore the mans decisions in
using birth control, RU-486, abortion, adoption etc etc, men also
ignore the fatherly rights they have. (child support, even seeing the
child, providing clothes or moral support)
Meanwhile mom struggles to survive because she chose LIFE and
dad chose BAR, sports car etc etc etc.
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She chose, she chose! That's EXACTLY the point! SHE makes all of the
choices. SHE can choose LIFE or ABORTION or ADOPTION or ABANDONMENT. All
men can do is sit by and wait to see what she will choose.

Men can choose to support their child, forget about child support payments.
Take the kid to the park on the weekend. Send a card on birthday's. Call
just to see how school went that day....All women can do is sit around and
wait
for dad to live up to his responsibilities as a father.

All women can do is sit around and wait for a man to give them money?
What? Women can't work and earn money? Women can't take children on
outings? Women can't keep their children;s lives too full for moping?
Women can't point their children to the bright side of things? Women
are so dependent on men that their children end up in psyciiatric
hospitals if men don't do what women think they should? You are
painting a very grim picture of women here.

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Sure, make a law that the Dad has to sign permission for birth control,
RU-486, abortion, adoption, or life
-------------------------
No. Make a law giving men the SAME rights that women currently have. The
right to decide to be a parent or not. While a man can't force a women to
get an abortion he should be able to force her to live with her own
choices.
A man should be able to choose to 'sign off' from being a parent.

Here a man can sign his parental rights away. This case, Dad refuses to do
so.
BUT mom does have to agree to let dad do it also. Like I said in a perfect
world
it would be a choice made together in the event a women got pregnant, but we
don't live in a perfect world do we?

So if the man signs away his parental rights, does that also mean he
signs away his responsibilities, such as child support? Or does he
just lose his right to visitation, and still has to pay?

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but then make a law that Dad also
has to live up to his responsibilities of being a Dad.
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What, the current set of laws requiring men to pay outrageous amounts of
cs
to women who have made the choice to become a parent aren't enough for
you?
Maybe they should have a national registry where all the men in the
country
who are working are required to be listed so that the courts can easily
garnish their paychecks and take their tax refunds. And maybe they should
bring back the 'debtors prisons' and lock up men who are unable to pay
their
cs. And then they could take away the drivers and professional licenses
of
any man who gets behind on their cs. Oh wait, they already DO those
things.

Outrageous amounts of child support? How much do you think it takes to raise
a
child? Sit and think about it. Not everyone pays outrageous amounts of child
support, and it is supposed to be based on the income of both parties. I
know a girl
who pays $15 a week, but I also know a guy who pays over $200 a week. $200
is outrageous but normally the amounts are not all that outrageous. $15 a
week? come on....

$15 per week would be nice--I know men who are paying $1000+ per month
because that was the guidline amount when they divorced for their
salary level. Even though some have been laid off and now have jobs
paying far less, the courts have refused to lower the amount of CS.
Yes, ME, there are many who are paying outrageous amounts!

---------------------
This argument could
go on forever, and so could I. Women are in the wrong, men are in the
wrong.
Men shouldn't have to pay for the choices of women? Women pay
for the choices of men each and every single day.

Are they? Please explain this statement a bit more clearly.