"Doug" wrote in message
...
Kane writes:

And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure
of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling
CPS further for lack of work to do.

Hi, Kane!

Who wrote all of that? Certainly not me or anyone else on this forum
other
than you.

Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now
which is it you liar?

As research posted to this newsgroup has reported, there are many possible
reasons for the decrease. Among them, a sizable blacklash from the 20
year
history of false allegations in this area. Citizens and mandated
reporters
are discovering that the phamplets handed out by the agencies regarding
"indicators" of sexual abuse are wrong.

You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the
copilots.

I have the seats right. The pilot sits in the left seat.

With their EB-6 and Far's manual... :-)


Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them.

Nothing was forced on CPS. They lobbied congress, they lobbied states, and
they contributed mightly to legislators who were hood-winked. Private
agencies were often out front as well. It's unfortunate that so many kids
were exploited for nefarious gain yet so many people wrongly listened to
these 'experts'.


CPS malpractice was carried out at the agencies' direction and not anyone
elses. No one else is to blame.

With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license
for
YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children
lives.

Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in
front
of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS
practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last
three
decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no
accountability to anyone.

That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be
accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own
legislatures. How do you stand yourself?

CPS agencies were not under the scrutiny of state legislatures nor
accountable to the feds. The recent audits were a federal attempt to
BEGIN
to hold the agencies accountable.

And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and
inability
to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work.

No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by
the Pew
Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates.

Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise?

Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER?

The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you
encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it.

YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT?

LOL! No beef? If you have some substantial information that addresses
the
issue we are discussing, I would be glad to see it. The silly name
calling
suggests you lack that information.


He does that when backed into a corner...

Most especially,
as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title
IV-E
funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a
manner
they see fit.

... and will ultimately take credit for other's suggestion.


Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having
"written" what you claim.

I have. Many times. The others may or may not choose to respond
regarding
their participation.

"used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh?

Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you
have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH
A THING...except possibly myself in other wording.

Ooops.. talk about taking credit!


Many times. I am sure the premise was made using a wide array of wording
and phrasing at different times.

I've often said CPS does not avail itself of other state and private
services relating to home-care... particularly housing and services to the
poor. Under the guise of neglect, their only recouse has been to remove the
child and make unreasonable demands on the parent(s) to acheive conformity.
Those, like Doug, with a more technical understanding and view of funding
use a different approach to acheive the same end. You just haven't noticed,
Kane.


Come on Douggie. Show us the citations.

We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor
kids strings off this funding.

Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie.

The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had
a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged
your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this.

Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction
are
making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to
protect.

And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of
you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping
them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and
the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words.

I have not advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS. What sort of
"powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you
put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no
way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not.

And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY
STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE.

I don't think that is the intention of the Pew report.


In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS
agency's
incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care.

They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No
jails involved at all, you liar.

Ok, Kane... I'll disagree with, Doug. (absent the profanity) The kids
weren't incarcerated... they were kid-napped.


Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families
are
being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and
forcibly
confined in state custody. More than 74% of them are confined with
strangers in various types of structures.

Since those
precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care
funding, the
agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed.

Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this
as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
BY LAW.

You are absolutely and categorically incorrect. These children were
removed
by state child protective agencies on their own initiative with the
motivation to collect federal funding. The federal government did NOT
order
these agencies to do it. The feds set the criteria for their money.
Since
that criteria provides an incentive to incarcerate poor children, they are
accountable. But that state agencies chose to remove children to get
access
to that money is appalling.

.. The Feds said... you take those children away from their parents.. and
we'll give you money. If you can get them adopted.. we'll give you even
more money.


Why should families trust the expertise of CPS

Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the
biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job
under nearly impossible odds.

The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is
"unquestionably
broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job.

Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal
and the required state "sister laws."

The state child protection agencies bear responsibility for their
malpractice. The Nazi defense, "I was ordered to do it" won't work for
personnel of these agencies. The workers within these agencies are
accountable for their own actions.

You are obfuscating yet again.

which now has failed in every
state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance.

Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure.

An unintended consequence of well intended people, I'm sure. With money out
there for the asking... CPS set the stage and grabbed the brass ring, which
to their delight, was far more lucrative then even they probably expected.

CPS broke the origianl intent of foster care system... tried to correct
their mistakes a number of times... and in frustration lobbbied for, and got
the federal governemnt to legalize morally unfair adoption practices....
with subsidies and monetary reward.



Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have
for
some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have
ignored?

Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many
years.
Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care
system
was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be
used
for purposes other than foster care.

I'm afraid the questions you allude to... were not of the same nature others
asked. I note that you finally admit the foster care system is broken.

Many months I ago, I suggested when change came.. you'd be right there
taking credit for your participation and contributions. You see things quite
clearly in black and white... which are often the extremes. The larger
grey areas often prove the most difficult to visulize, understand and
resolve. To deny the affiliation beween the feds and cps "obfuscates" (your
favorite big word) the true issues.






And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the
constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE.

How is it possible to disassociate CPS from federal mandates and subsidy.
Except for the few wise citizen groups, and occassioally the courts, the
only ones actively called for changes.. and the only ones who got
attention.... was CPS. Those same changes, by the way, is what more and
more people are seeing as wrong and unjust.

It's unfortuate that the few wise people among us were not listened to...
even as the courts were being stripped of their powers.


If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it
back, he's likely to dance to your tune.

If he dances to the tune in violation of his ethics and moral convictions,
just to get at the money, he alone must face the music. He is
responsible.
It is simply inhumane to remove children from their parents, inflicting
tremendous emotional damage, for a buck. The feds are responsible to
providing the temptation, but the state workers are solely responsible for
yeilding to the temptation by irreparably injuring the very children they
were mandated to protect. For the damage they have done to children, the
agencies are fully responsible.


NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own
choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that
there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their
discretion.

Thugs are thugs, whoever pays them. In this thread, we have been talking
about holding the current thugs accountable for the damage they have
already
done to children. You argue that we should worry about different thugs
paid
by the feds without considering the damage already done by the state
thugs.

I can't really discount that reapportionment, and capped funds, will have
some affect on CPS ... I'm still skepical about the extent.. as well as
the consequences. Doug is certainly more optimistic than I. Hmmm.... guess
I should resort to a few profanities and insults, huh?

bobb


There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money
and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as
child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the
states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they
can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY
THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR.

The state child protection agencies currently pay thousands of local
vendors -- therapists, consultants, advisors, GAL's, group home operators,
caseworkers, parenting teachers, counselors, lawyers, assorted species of
jacklegs, partridges and the pear trees in which they roost.

Have a wonderful day, sir! You are an adult, so you can be relatively
confident that you can spend it at home with those you love.

Doug