Doan wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, 0:- wrote:

Ron wrote:
"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Ron wrote:

"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Ron wrote:

"Doan" wrote in message
...
On 4 Dec 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006, Ron wrote:

"Michael©" wrote in message
. 97.140...
"Ron" wrote in
:

"Doug" wrote in message
...
Absolutely not. You can tell the absolute truth and lose a
suit
because you chose to tell it to the detriment and loss of
the
complainant.
Hi, Kane,

Nope. Truth is an absolute defense against libel. If the
defendant
proves the statement to be true in a libel suit, he prevails.
Period.
Absolute defense.
If there is one thing you should have learned in posting to
this
news
group for as long as you have Doug, "Truth" is a matter of
perspective.

Fact, on the other hand, is what is the ultimate defense.

Truth is an absolute defense in the United States and Canada
to
defamation
(libel and slander).
Un uh, Michael. That's a myth based on folks ignoring
qualifiers
you'll
nearly always see in the authorities referenced, that
actually
say,
"in almost every instance truth is an absolute defense."
Michael is correct. Truth is an absolute defense in libel
suits.
That
the truth happens to cause detriment to the plaintiff does not
in
any
manner, shape or form mitigate the absolute defense of truth.
No Doug, its not. Fact is. Truth is variable.
If truth is a variable, it is not a fact.

LMAO

=====================================
truth

+ noun (pl. truths /trooths, troo&ulth;z/) 1 the quality or
state
of
being true. 2 (also the truth) that which is true as opposed to
false. 3
a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

ORIGIN Old English.

Oxford University Press, 2006
=====================================

The truth is a fact.

Therefore, you contradicted yourself above.


Ron

Actually mikey, I didnt, and you proved my point. "3 a fact or
belief
that
is accepted as true."

Ron
Fact and truth are synonymous, Ron.
Yours is a fundamentalist claim, Doan.

Humans aren't that simple. And after all, it's humans that make such
rules, not gods.

And the courts are ruled by human, not god!

Doan
So, proof please.

Showing universal agreement with your claim, if you don't mind.

Show me a case where the truth is a not defense for libel, if you can.
Doan
Anytime truth is not factual it is not a defense of any kind. What you
believe to be truth may indeed not be based on facts. Facts are always
the
truth, but sometimes the truth is not factual.

Ron

If the truth is not factual then, by definition, it is not the truth!
Doan
As I have been saying, Truth is perception. Truth can be based on faith,
fact cannot. Therefore truth is not always factual and can change
depending
on the individuals perspective. Fact is immutable, it cannot be changed.

Ron

Do yourself a favor and look it up in a dictionary, Ron. Fact and truth
are synonymous!

Doan

The dictionary has nothing to do with it doan. This is a philosophical
discussion, and dictionaries don't do philosophy.

Even the dictionaries make plain that the question of "truth" and "fact"
in the law is open to interpretation there.

Otherwise we wouldn't need judges and juries.

Just pop the case "facts" and the "truth" into a logical program for
analysis and comparison with known facts and truth and out would come
the finding.

" 4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts
given by the witness are highly questionable."

Yet they call them "facts."

For instance, the truth of this statement, an example from below is in
dispute. Rome experienced many setbacks in it's colonies...stretched far
too thinly. There is some evidence showing that lead was a popular
cooking and eating utensil manufacturing metal.

So this "truth" is highly questionable:

"12. in truth, in reality; in fact; actually: In truth, moral decay
hastened the decline of the Roman Empire."

It's an opinion. A philosophical question, when using the word "moral"
to define a 'truth.'

It is not factual.

So not synonymous as claimed.


Synonyms 1. fact. 2. veracity. 7. sincerity, candor, frankness. 10.
precision, exactness.
Antonyms 1. falsehood. 2, 4, 7. falsity.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2006.

Q.E.D!

Doan

It doesn't apply in this case, Doan.

Your choice of "synonymous" as a comparison bettween truth and fact
fails to account for the meaning of that word.

Are you presuming that "synonymous" means precisely the same?

From you own source:

syn·o·nym /ˈsɪnənɪm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[sin-uh-nim] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun
1. a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the
language, as joyful, elated, glad.
2. a word or expression accepted as another name for something, as
Arcadia for pastoral simplicity; metonym.
3. Biology. one of two or more scientific names applied to a single
taxon.
[Origin: 1400–50; L synÅ?nymum Gk synnymon, n. use of neut. of
synnymos /ˌsɪnəˈnɪmɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[sin-uh-nim-i-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA
Pronunciation, noun
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc.
2006.

It is not exact...as in, from the above:

1.a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the
language, as joyful, elated, glad.

Notice the 'nearly?'

That would be both Ron's point, and mine, I believe.

Truth and fact are not always the "same" even if they are 'synonymous.'
'Nearly' says your argument won't cut it.

Q.E.D.

0:-]



Your point about dictionaries and philosophy is well taken, even if
dictionaries do include philosophical considerations.

We are left with this question, from the subject field, Gloating or Ill
Wishes vs Threats of Violence.

The argument of those that oppose me on this are based on the situation
now...and I have made it clear I am discussing outcomes. That is, should
violence be visited on me or mine, or Donald Fisher and his, then the
sentiments being expressed about "CPS Caseworkers" of which I am accused
of being, will take on an entirely new light.

I posted a quote, with link, that made plain "connotation" was arguable
as a libel or slander charge definition...even if true in fact.

Fundamental mindsets have a difficult time wrapping themselves,
apparently, around time and circumstances having an effect on charges
and claims.

I find this amusing.

Doan will continue to split hairs, rather than deal with the real issue.

Expressing desires for others injury or death mean nothing. Until of
course there is an injury or death.

That is the only reason I keep track of the babbling of I'll wishes and
"gloating" over killings of caseworkers.

Since I'm accuse of being one, though I am not, nor have I ever been,
being labeled as such, then reading from the same people gloating over
the deaths of caseworkers, and clearly expressed desire for me
personally to be killed I think I'm perfectly logical in my actions.

Would you ignore such statements and not consider them threats?

If I said that I hate, despise, and wished to see killed all electronic
information systems administrators and ID Doan as one, should he not
take notice and keep track of my statements just in case?

Would it be logical for him to assume I meant him no harm?

The logic of these children is precious.

Kane

Ron

For instance, we see 'truth' mentioned in the definition of 'fact"
below:

fact /fækt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fakt]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
â?"noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no
basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a
fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known
to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts
given by the witness are highly questionable.

But in looking at a list of definitions of "truth" one finds
departures
from your claim in fact.

truth /truθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trooth]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
â?"noun, plural truths /truðz, truθs/ Pronunciation Key - Show
Spelled Pronunciation[troothz, trooths] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA
Pronunciation.
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the
truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.