Banty wrote:
In article .com, Barbara
says...

greccogirl wrote:
L. wrote:
greccogirl wrote:

My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO

A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.

-L.

A lot of them? Doubtful! I went to camp all my life and never "got
into trouble". I didn't know anyone who did! A child doesn't need a
cell phone at camp, unless they are too immature to be there in the
first place, or possibly his parents are too immature to let their kid
out of their sight.

Well, aren't you lucky! You never met anyone who was bullied at camp.
Or who was placed with a group of kids who smoked/did drugs/were
sexually promiscuous, and really didn't know how to get out of the
situation. Had a counselor who harrassed them, or left the kids on
their own while going out to smoke/yadda yadda. Was abused or
molested. Otherwise faced a situation that s/he couldn't handle on
his/her own. Well, that doesn't mean that those things don't happen,
or that kids should be forced to face those things without parental
assistance.

So - what - the kid at camp will call Mommy or Daddy from his handy little cell
(which, of course, is left in his hands by said bullies or miscreants), and
they'll come flying like eagles to his side to Save Their Child?? (Or, maybe
teleportation has been discovered - part of the new Wireless World we're in, and
they'll just BEAM over!)

Or does it seem more reasonable that these problems be reported by the kid to
his camp counsellors and/or his parents for further action? Including pulling
them out of a bad camp environment if necessary.

IF the child feels comfortable speaking to the counselor. IF the
counselor gives a fl***g f***, as opposed to being some teenager who
really just wants to get through the summer the easiest way and collect
his tips at the end. IF its not the counselor who is the problem. IF
the situation is not one that needs immediate attention.

But I'm glad to see that you admit that reporting a problem to mom and
dad is a viable option. The cell phone is simply a faster means that a
letter that's going to take several days to reach the parents. And
honestly, Banty, no one expects the kid to call while an incident is
occurring. They would call in a private moment, later on.

You want a real story? I'll give you one. When I was 16, I went on a
6 week school-sponsored trip abroad. In the first week, I was molested
by a tour guide (not one of our tour leaders). I spent the rest of the
summer upset, withdrawn, fearful and crying. The group leaders never
once asked me what was wrong; if they had, I would have told them.
Instead, they threatened me -- if you don't buck up, we'll send you
home alone, in shame; at the time, that seemed like an awful option. I
didn't feel comfortable telling the group leaders. Within 2 weeks,
virtually every kid in the group knew why I was so upset, but no one
told the leaders. I begged to call my parents, but the *rules* were no
calls. I wish I'd had a cell phone. it would have saved me weeks --
hell, years -- of pain.

Really, this is all about the Invisible Electronic Umbilical Chord, and
Momma-Bears and Papa-Bears pinning that Concerned Parent Merit Badge on their
aprons and suits.

Do you *really* think that it advances your argument to belittle and
insult people who hold differing opinions? Or do you write in this
manner to disguise the fact that you lack a single logical argument in
favor of your position?

I think it may also be that Ubiquitous Cell Phone Culture, where every "do you
want skirt steak or london broil tonight" or "well, look in your sock drawer for
them - did you ask your dad where you left them" question HAS to be asked and
answered IMMEDIATELY or Life Falls Apart.


I don't believe that cell phones are *necessary* for all kids who goes
to overnight camp. Indeed, there's probably a lot to be said for
cutting that cord. OTOH, I don't think that Lyn's position is out of
line, overprotective, or otherwise ridiculous. IIRC, her son is now
about 2 years old, so I don't think that overnight camp is imminent.
However, whomever said that when the time comes -- if it comes -- she
should seek out a camp that permits cell phones (and they do exist) is
correct; that's what I would do.

Naw, it's a silly position, no surprise from the author. Mamma Bear Supreme.

Well, since I am the one espousing the position, I'll proudly bear the
name. And why wouldn't I want to be known as someone who looks out for
her child's best interests and tries to protect him?

I put these objections into the same category as the complaints from speeding
drivers "but whattif I had my laboring wife about to have a baby". It's
unlikely, and silly anysay (pros should be transporting).

I've never heard a speeder say that. I have, however, heard people
lament today's safety devices while refusing to use them. *I'm a good
driver. I've never been in an accident. I never wore seatbelts when I
was a kid. There's no reason for my kid to be in a carseat* *Oh,
c'mon. No one wore bike helmets when we were kids* Ad infinitum.
Come to think of it, they're right. Most trips don't result in
accidents; its probably 1 in a million for any given car trip that a
baby will need the protection of a carseat. Same for bike helmets,
using power mowers. I don't see the cell phone as being any different.

The reason why cell phones are often banned is because it impacts the camp
environment and atmosphere to have kids IMing and yammering at each other across
the camp. As well as needing to cut that invisible umbilical chord for some
little time - it's called growing up!

Since I grew up just fine without ever going to overnight camp, I
imagine that kids will grow up just fine with cell phones at camp. Its
simply not an unreasonable thing to have, if the camp allows it.

Although an *alternate* policy is "no cell phones visibie". That is, the child
can have a cell for calling home in true emergencies, or after camp, or in case
there is a need to shut down the camp early. So - they can carry the cell, but
if it's out (and there's no accepted reason for it to be out; if it's out, it's
assumed that it's out for use), it gets confiscated. No, not just for the day.
That's what my son's daycamp, and his school district, has.

So, would a policy like that make folks feel more comfortable?

We've made a decision that for us, the risks of not having a phone at
school -- at a point when One is still taking the school bus -- or day
camp are minimal. He comes home at the end of the day and can report
any problems or incidents to us, or we can observe behavioral changes
and look into why they're occurring. Its different if the kid is away
for 8 weeks. It will also be different for me when One starts taking
public transit to and from school, and otherwise going places without
parental supervision.

What would be the advantage of allowing a child to have a phone, but
not letting him use it? It seems rather silly to me.

Barbara