On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:37:24 -0400, "Jayne Kulikauskas"
wrote:


"Kane" wrote in message
. com...
"Jayne Kulikauskas" wrote in message
...
"Kane" wrote in message
om...

[]
It's so apparent in that "spanking is not abuse" claim that I
can't
respond any other way but to chuckle. chuckle

Well, Kane, you've convinced me. I have never spanked my
children in
the
past, but you have done such a horrible job of arguing against
it, that
I
have decided to try it.

Jayne

Your facitiousness aside; what would be a more convincing argument
than I've made so far?

I wasn't being facetious. This thread really has convinced me to try
spanking.

I had nearly 40 years study, 31 of those
professionally
involved with mentally ill youth, incarcertated men, ordinary
families, a huge
number of homeschooling families.

Your content is lost in your style. You write in an abusive and
bullying
style about how spanking is abusive bullying. You lose all moral
authority.

If you aren't smart enough to see through my style then I doubt you
are smart enough to figure out ways to parent without pain and
humiliation. But I could be wrong.

Since you aren't a spanker then you might be willing to help me by
pointing out how I might improve my argument.

Possibly you could convince me that spanking is better. Could you
share with
me your reasons for believing that?

I do not have a good method of discipline for children before the age
of
reason.

That could be because you are thinking of "discipline" as punishment
and control, rather than redirection, engagement and support for
exploration.

A child that isn't well engaged with his or her environment (adults
are constantly taking things away and "no" saying, instead of
enriching the environment and saying a lot of "yes")tends to drive
eveyone crazy because are being so driven.

To much TV will produce similar results. Mind rot.

This is probably the greatest weakness in my parenting skills and
makes the toddler years extremely stressful for our whole family.

What would be your expectations of a "good discipline method?"

Our
toddler is a danger to himself and others, not to mention property,
because
I have no way to control him.

Jayne, lots of folks have tried pulling my chain only to discover I
have hooked my end to a 220 volt line with a switch. Don't play with
me.

I am so stressed by trying to watch him every
instant that I can not enjoy being around my family.

Then you obviously have a maladjusted mentally ill child...or you are
among the most hapless of parents. And just to show you that I know
you are pulling my chain again, like I just warned you about:

YOU are a liar.

By toddler age if you had a child that difficult you'd have resorted
to spanking in lieu of learning how to parent without it successfully.

I am burnt out and
shortchanging everyone.

Awww....sure, Jayne.

I desperately

You don't carry off "desterately" very well, Jayne. You are lousy at
lying.

need a way to put some limits on this
child.

Anyone that can't figure out the easy task of how to engage a toddler
to keep him busy to the point of HIS exhaustion deserves what they
get.

And if you really didn't spank your children why not? And what did
or
could I
say to a non-spanking parent that would convince them to spank?

I have struggled with the fault of being short-tempered ever since I
can
remember.

So had I. It's not like your temper has to run you, is it? If so, that
is if you aren't trying another piece of lying bull****, then you are
in more serious trouble than I can help with.

I have been afraid that I would lose control of myself if I used
corporal punishment and might really hurt my children.

R R R R...

You really think you can carry of this bull?

But Mike impressed
me with his point that leaving it as a last resort is what is likely
to lead
to losing control.

I'm sure he did. Suckers fall for such lines all the time. "Time
tested and majority approved." I see it all the time. We used to see
it a great deal in treatment centers for mentally ill teens. Their
parents always blamed the problems that resulted on the child, or her
peers, or the disintegration of the family...one of MY all time
favorites.

Everything he said made sense,

Naw. It just made sense to the hapless or the little twits that
believe in it and want to help promote it.

You don't lie well at all.

while your points were
lost in nastiness and insults.

Nice try, Jayne. Won't wash. Go **** up a rope.

Just another fundie attempt to play at being clever. You folks are
lousy at it.

You've been spanking your child since you first were annoyed with him.
Hope he grows up to bludgeon you to death in your sleep with a copy of
one of James Dobson's books. That **** is heavy.

Can't kid an old kidder, Jayne. You are waaaaaay too obvious.


Jayne

r r r r
bingo bango bongo

Stoneman