dolores wrote:
wrote in message
news:CurRa.80070$ye4.60298@sccrnsc01... Snip

Lorian, OMG....this post!!!.. I cannot even begin to imagine how you
must have suffered, firstly as a child and now as an adult. Not only
were you shortchanged by your parents, but their abuse of you was
their legacy to you and is probably the cause of your illness.

I was born with my mental illness, manic-depression, also called bipolar
disorder, is genetic. But what has really been a problem is the PTSD (post
traumatic stress disorder) and that did come from abuse from my parents and
the abusers in my life.

And
this legacy of theirs has not only hurt you, but is being handed down
to your son, but not deliberately on your part. You've obviously
worked hard at not being your mother or father...But that's one hell
of a tough thing to do...It's a known fact that abuse is a hard cycle
to break...and all credit to you for what you've done...You've broken
the physical cycle from what I can gather...but the psychological one
is the hardest....but you are obviously trying and deserve credit for
it. I cant imaging how worn down and tired you must be. These
teenage years of your sons are probably going to be the hardest too,
my heart goes out to you.

I think you should be congratulated on the gift of education you've
given your son. I reckon this is one part of you that hasnt been
contanimated by your parents. You were clear, determined and knew
what you were doing. I would say this most definitely came across to
your son, otherwise he wouldnt be as knowledgeable as he is. I'd say
he has a quiet respect for this side of you.

Now if your parents had
left you alone, brought you up with kindness, decency and been good
to you, then the mother that educated your son would be the same
mother that knew how to set boundaries, say no and be comfortable in
her own skin (if that makes sense).

That is exactly what I feel like.

Unfortuantely they stripped you
of this and it's been your downfall. I dont think it's your fault, I
think its theirs. As a result your son has had to deal with two
mothers, the one that knew what she was doing and the other one that
was grasping at straws, grappling with herself and unsure. He
probably sensed this from a very young age and got away with murder,

this has always been one of my fears, that one of my abusers would kill me
and get away with it, because I am "crazy", they would claim self defense
and with no witnesses... even though I have never been violent.

now he's older and fighting back, or more to the point begging for
help but doesnt have the know how. Reading your post about the mocha
drink he *sounds* like one hell of a spoilt brat!! (Sorry, no offence
intended). I would say though it's more a case that you are the only
person that he has that he can really truly be himself with, and is
letting out all his frustrations on you.

I believe kicking him out on to the street will probably destroy him
and ruin all the hard work you've put in, not to mention a waste of
all the hours of agony that you've gone through. You'd be
perpetuating the cycle too..... Breaking it however, is tough and I
dont think you will be able to do it on your own, simply cos you
havent got the tools or know how (thanks to your parents). This is
where fostering to a good home where there are other kids would be a
good idea. It would help him in the future, but do nothing for you
as a parent. And you need help too.

I wish the system would recognize that. Thank you.

Going by what you've said it seems to me that this lad didnt really
have many rules or boundaries imposed on him, probably becuase you
didnt know how to say no.....not that you didnt want to...just
probably cos you didnt know when it was appropriate....God!!...I hope
I'm not offending you here....

Also, as he became a man beginning two years ago I became afraid to say no,
that is how I react to men, even though he is my own son, and that is how he
got this way over time. I saw this happening two years ago and tried to get
help then, even placing him temporarily in my aunt's home and trying to get
help from they system but nobody really heard me.

This lad sounds as though he really and truly needs genuine love and
attention, to know that he is cherished, *important to somebody*,
ideally you...and needed. You really need to let him know that you
truly love him and that love is unconditional. After all, given what
he witnessed as a child you are hardly in a position to expect
pristine behaviour when your own wasnt that great....and he know this
and will flog it to the death if you let him. You cant threaten him
with the door because his behaviour is in the gutter, when he grew up
watching your behaviour with these men.

What's weird for him probably is that all my friends are men. I am a
computer technician, how many other women computer technicians do you think
I know? None. All the computer hardware and software sales clerks are men,
all the tech support people I talk to are men, all the security guards,
bartenders, cooks, dishwashes, dj's, and barbacks I hang out with at the bar
I go to are men, and in my physics class at school they are mostly men. But
they all stay where I meet them, I always come home alone. So, he hasn't
had any real role models in his daily life. The guys who did enter our
lives were always unhealthy and didn't stay for long, I did my best.

If he's willing, sit him down, tell him about your own childhood, how
you felt at the time and how it affected you growing up. Acknowledge
to him that maybe you werent the best parent starting off but now you
know you were wrong. *Ask* him what he needs from you. Make it
quite clear that he is as much a part of the family as you are and
this is his home, it always will be. Tell him that you *need* his
help at sorting this out and that you are going to keep trying, you
will never give up on him. Get him to open up to you if you can.

I will do that when we are ready.

However, at some point you really have to set boundaries and rules,
give him responsiblity in the home. If this is his home, as much as
yours, then he should treat it as such and pull his weight. And
these rules have to apply to you too. He is entitled to expect a
certain standard of behaviour from you too, just as my lads are
entitled to expect a certain standard of behaviour from me.

What exactly does this look like?

Threatening to throw him on the street is just a more subtle way of
perpetuating the cycle of abuse that you recieved, it's instilling
fear and builds hostility in his mind.

yeah, I can see that. I didn't do that, I just pointed out that when he
told me how I didn't do anything around here that if he thought he could
manage a household better he could go get himself emancipated and manage his
own household.

If he's not willing to listen, or it ends up in a fight, sit down and
write a letter/email to him. Dont doubt he will read it, a letter
never goes unread.

However, I do feel it would do him the world of good to go and see
how other people live. Call it fostering if you like, but I'd be more
inclined to tell him that this is a great opportunity for him to go
and see how other people live. Be open about the fact that it will
show him how wrong some of the things you did were, and this is a
great chance to break the loop. After all, in years to come he might
have a family of his own and this time seeing how another family
behave might be his saving grace.

Can I go to a foster home? Can someone parent me so that I can learn what
it feels like to have two parents who love me? No? damn.

If he does go to another family though make sure you see or speak to
him every single day, without fail, at the same time every day too,
so that he knows he can rely on you. First thing in the morning to
wish him well and last thing after dinner to see how he is and how he
got on. When he comes home ask him what he thinks, and get him to
talk in detail if you can, be open about the differences between how
you dealt with hiim and how they do. Make it quite clear that this is
only a temporary arrangement, that you are under no circumstances
turning your back on him or giving up on him.

I will.

And while he is off
with this other family you should foster yourself out
too.....Parenting classes are a start and I'm sure if you asked
around someone could give you some idea of where to go...... ]

ok. I will look for parents anonymous.

Well, all the above are only my opinion, for what its worth and hope I
havent offened you, as that is not my intention. I'm not really
qualified or experienced enough either cos my lads are still only
young at 11 and 13, I dont have the wisdom of hindsight as of
yet...as many others here in the group do......However, I really feel
for what you are going through and hope you and your son manage to
get through this. Best of luck

thank you for being there for me when I need you Dolores. This means a lot
to me.