On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:17:10 -0500, "bobb"
"Doan" wrote in message
Being stupid again! No where did the article mention anything about
On 16 May 2004, Kane wrote:
After all, over 90% of all parents spank, right? Where was that
with his nightstick when this family needed him, asks Droany.
Where were the church members and the objects to beat suspended
with, asks The Plant.
Or if the families has been good families, like the folks in the
1800's who routinely fed opiates to their children to quite them
killed them thereby this wouldn't have happened, speculates the
From Fox News:
Klebolds Say They Don't Need Forgiveness
Sunday, May 16, 2004
NEW YORK - In their first interview since the Columbine High
(search) massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel
need be forgiven and didn't realize their son was beyond hope until
after he was dead.
"Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,"
Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks (search) in Saturday's
editions of The New York Times. "He did it in contradiction to the
he was raised."
See complete story at..........
It is silly to beleive, or even offer, the idea that spanking was the
of this behavior. And I agree, no where has spanking been
could even suspect these boys were never spanked.
Sure you could, and the odds are?
How about 10 to 1? 90% or so is the claim for spanking in the US.
I did not say they were spanked or not. I offer the gamblers
perspective, and I've lived a very successful life just paying
attention to the odds. I, for instance, do NOT run red lights in my
car, as I have it on good authority that the odds would be against me
I didn't spank my children for a very similar reason......just looked
at prison populations and I read, among other things, a study by a
Chicago school of social work researcher, Fischer, back in the 60's,
that FAILED TO FIND AN UNSPANKED INMATE AMONG ALL PRISONERS, INCLUDING
A RECORDS SEARCH AND SURVEY.
I also cannot understand why it is necessary for the parents to
for the behaviors of their son.
Given the beliefs about child rearing in this country, and the use of
punishment so many of us are compulsively addicted to, I don't think
they should apologize either.
I think WE ALL SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO THEM for misleading them. YOU most
Me, because I've not worked hard enough to put an end, though I've
spent half a lifetime on it, to abusive violent child rearing methods.
If the victims are looking for answers they
have a narrowed, unrealistic, view.
The have the view of people in deep grief. I don't expect rational
objectivity from greaving people. I know you do though, since you
don't even believe they should or could benefit by seeking out grief
This is what you get when people have not been able to resolve their
I could say that the parents missed an obvious red flag... the trench
coat... but so did a lot of other people.
Wearing a trenchcoat is not a sign of murderous intent. In that case
it simply signified membership in an adolescent clique, something most
of the kids in the school did, as is true in all our public schools.
Membership does not equate with murderous intent, just teen angst.
I'm of the opinon that
individuality is not a bad thing.. but there are limits, and there
must be a
sense of understanding. The trench coat represented an enviornment
acceptance or attention the boys could not find elsewhere.
That does NOT smack of individuality. I've known a few kids that were
indiviuals in highschool, and were not definable by any group. Usually
much more interesting people than the kids in cliques. And usually
turned out better too. Often those of genius mentality, one way or
While some kids
dress and opt for out-landish' appearances, much of the time it is
fun or fad Certain behaviors and dress are for no purpose other
something sinister or illgeal.
Nonsense. WE, this society, creates a "villain" class. In fact it's my
major bitch with religion. The schools foster this, or minimize the
importance of it, and the kids carry it on.
For instance, gang colors and their
associated uniforms. Society, including the school officials, need
intervene when rules of expected conduct are broken.
R R R R ....this from bobb, the foremost complainer about PCness in
You are sooo stupid bobb. You just presented an argument for PCness
There is a need to
question and sometimes react. I'm of the opinon gangs membership
limited merely by offering alternatives before kids become firmly
What alternatives, bobb? Counseling? How do you tempt the kid into NOT
joining a gang? What incentives? Midnight basketball?
How about....gasp!..... getting them away from dangerous parents and
putting them with socially and mentally healthy.......double
Columbine High school, in all probability, helped to set the
stage for this disaster.
As do many HS's in the country. Highschool life, the culture, is one
of great stress. Children are ALLOWED to threaten and bully each
other, and a society of elitism is encouraged. I was a HS jock so I
know about it from the approved side..but saw what it cost the less
popular and athletic kids.
The largeness of high schools these days is slowly being recognized
as instituions of poor learning... but also a feeding ground for the
distribution of drugs and anti-social cults.
I went, in the 50's, to a magnet HS that had over 5,000 kids in it. We
had "gangs" and I daresay more than a little weed floating around.
This isn't a new phenomena. It's just larger today and more out in the
open. We hid our little vices back then.
There is little or no time to
intereact with kids..or even to hear their calls for help when it is
I dunno bobb. The public has seen fit (PC, remember) to address these
As adults, it is not unusal that many perfer to work for the smaller,
oriented companies where there are more opportunties to contribute,
successes do not go unrecognized.
Yep, it's the bigness. We never had bigness before. GM, GE, US Steel,
are all start up companies.
Obviously, with a dozen or so jr.
schools feeding a single large high school the opportunity to
school acitivites such as football becomes extremely limited.
HS athletic departments suffer from an imbalance of funding given to
competative intramural sports at the expense of good ol' PE.
Not enough is spent on getting all kids fit, and too much is spent on
who were motivied through sports in the lower grade must be left out.
Yep..because of intramural sports...no OTHER reason. The belief in
"jock" is what does it.
There are no more or less kids left out in smaller schools. It's the
same at all levels.
With rare exceptions. Now and then a school is set up to promote
academics over competitive sports. They don't have the problems of
Columbine...notice that? Those schools (even some that were once jock
oriented and rife with violence) don't produce student violence one
they leave the jock mindset.
who make the team are, I would assume, the best of the best and
status.... and no doubt the school caters to their acheivements.
Actually it's often who your daddy is. If he's powerful locally in
politics and the economy you can bet an even better athlete will lose
out to that son.
suppose boys who are left out feel much like the person who gets
a job he really likes and enjoys.
Yep. The jock mindset will produce that. .
It's a bit hard to quarter-back the police and social workers but
must admit failure. There are too many laws that keep kids in
especially at the higher age groups, who probably have no business
there. It's become quite obvious, and always has been, some kids are
school merely for the social interaction or 'fun' as they might call
not education.. and spend more time in detention than actual class.
that, I've always asked, why? Could it be that even Klebold and
group had no business in school? That may be the extreme but did
take the time to determine what was going on with those boys.... or
recognize the failings of the school?
Could you babble a bit more?
The victims parents should be looking at all the attendant social
problems... not merely the boy's parents.
Columbine is not isolated except for experiencing the extreme. Other
schools are disrupted in much the same manner and have their own
trench coat mafias. As mcuh as CPS has fallen into dispair.... so
For much the same reasons. A lot of lies. A lot of unrealistic
expectations (even the institutions sometimes buy into that). And
stupid people pointing fingers at the non-problems and ignoring the
People such as you, bobb.
YOU are a typical "jock" mindset person. Your distain for women. Your
racist bigotry. Your dismissal of social programs that work.
Nice chatting with you.