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#91
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school supplies!
Timing is definitely an issue, but I think some of it just comes down to the fact that some people will trade money for convenience and others will trade convenience for money. Some would prefer for all the costs to be bundled and to pay one fee and be done with it. Others want the costs spread out or would prefer to get their own (either for control or because they think they can get a better deal). People just have different preferences, so it's darned hard to satisfy all (or even most) of them. Everyone would like enough lead time, of course, but even with lead time you're not going to satisfy everyone. Whilst all that is undoubtably true, I wonder if another factor is simply a less than ideal ability to see the true cost of things and make decisions and budget accordingly. When I take my kids to gymnastics, I often end up wandering around and will see things on the notice board for older gymnasts about money and I was really pleased to see that they are very upfront about costs, though it's also obvious from various letters that complaints are frequent, yet it really seems they have it organised, this years competition dates were up in August with it clearly marked which were compulsory for which teams and which were optional, along with estimated expenses. They seem to accept that there will be variations - so it's strongly encouraged to have a professional choreograph your floor routine and teach it to you, but if you really want to avoid that, then you can, with bars and beam the expectation appeared to be that most would do their own, but paying for choreography was an option etc. But my bet is that I know more about it than many of the parents, just from picking up random snippets of information - and it's not surprising if not knowing where exactly the money is going that parents quibble at the cost. I remember when I was probably around 10 or so, a parent of one of my sisters friends was moaning to me that she had to buy a pink leotard for ballet, with her explaination being that her child already had a pink leotard, I knew which leotard she was talking about and it was luminous pink and a completely different style to the ballet leotard she was being asked to purchase - and this was for an exam, not just for class, in the UK, it's typical to not have strong dress codes for things like dance classes, imagine what she would be thinking if that was in the US where the dress code is usually strict for classes with no uniformity across dance schools, in the UK, a pink ballet leotard is just that, if you need one for an exam then that is the style you'll wear regardless of where you take it, which school you go to etc. Even having done a lot of dance myself, I still find some dance information confusing and if I look at a supply list and think what on earth is a dance belt then how much more confused would the mum with no dance background be? When you sign up even a toddler for an activity it would be quite useful to have a handout that gave you the estimated costs year on year until age 18, so you can make the choice that you don't even want to allow your child to be interested in that thing if you really don't like the thought of that much money! I wonder how many dance mums are surprised when their child starts pointe work and after having budgeted for classes, suddenly gets a shock when the frequency of purchasing shoes suddenly goes up dramatically! The life span of a pointe shoe is a fraction that of a canvas ballet shoe. Cheers Anne |
#92
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school supplies!
So, not that these are big huge deals that I ever complained to the teacher about. But sometimes I don't think teachers and the like realize what a parent has to do to scramble up some specified supply even if they've made an effort to require some common thing. Indeed, it would be the worst impacts because those would be things required that very evening or the next day. LOL, I remember a time when I was asked to bring a cereal box into school, it just so happened we'd just finished a box and it had already been taken by the binmen and we were starting on a large box that no way would be finished in time. My mum never used plastic containers for cereal and it was such a big box there was no obvious big container to decant it in to. So providing something as simple as a cereal box turned out to be rather more difficult than expected, it's back to if you know it's coming, you can plan and when my sister had the same class two years later they were ready for the cereal box - there was added amusement as the teacher, who was notorious for her craziness, didn't simply say bring in a cereal box from home, actually said something like "on the way home tonight, buy a box of cereal, then sit down and eat all the contents and save the empty box"! Cheers Anne |
#93
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school supplies!
Hear Hear! My school is very reasonable on costs and projects etc. I don't really have complaints about it but this one is very difficult sometimes. And to echo one of your other posts our issue last year was a shoe box. My son needed a shoe box. Well my house doesn't have shoe boxes in it. So I load up all 4 kids and go trudging down to K-Mart to find a shoe box - on a week night - when I have about 3 hours between off work and bedtime to manage what needs to be managed for 4 small kids. You can imagine how happy they all are to go shopping in the freezing cold dark winter night when they are either hungry (before supper) or tired (after supper). I like the way our preschool handles things like this, they have a store cupboard and they keep supplies like this and they do let parents know about the kind of things they like you to hang on to and donate and there will often be a sign saying things like "Mrs X is collecting bottle tops drop them off in the box outside her classroom". Then when something like a shoebox is needed, they still ask us to bring one - they probably aren't storing anywhere near a full class worth of something like that. But they also say bring extra if you have one and don't worry if you don't, no need to go shopping etc. This accomodates both not having one and forgetting, both of which have happened to us, but another time they were asked to bring a broken electrical appliance, we were able to provide for about half the class! That kind of organisation takes years to build up though, so a small school and a relatively low staff turn over really helps that kind of thing. Cheers Anne |
#94
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school supplies!
What is it with shoeboxes anyway? Last year we had the teacher telling the kids on monday that they need a shoebox on wednesday for an art project. Well, there isn't even a shoe shop where I live anymore. I finally scored a box in a sporting goods store. Then when I bring it in on Wednesday and tell the teacher that next time could she please give us a weeks warning she goes "Oh, I went and got some boxes yesterday anyway, just in case, you needn't have worried" well, why can't she go and get all the stupid boxes if she's going to go and get some as backup anyway, or at least let us know that it's not a huge deal if we can't find a shoebox. I think it's because going and getting 30 boxes is a lot harder work than getting a handful and also is likely to end up costing, stores are likely to be happy to give the few they have on hand, but I suspect that shoe boxes are squashed up and disposed of before they get to that quantity. With pizza boxes, if you nip in, smile sweetly and ask for one, you'll probably get it, if you ask for 30 they'll charge you and if they can't work out how to put that through the till, you'll go away empty handed. It is a challenge to build the kind of relationship and understanding that has the parent understanding that it would be wonderful if you could bring in the shoebox, but if you can't, don't worry. Cheers Anne |
#95
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school supplies!
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message . .. If the school is in an area where the majority of students couldn't afford such a trip, then that's when you have to start appealing to local companies etc. not expecting the few that can pay to pay for everyone. I doubt VERY much if we would have been allowed to do that at a public school. Why not? I read just today of a huge amount of money travelling between a local company and the local school district, perhaps what makes it ok is that the money officially comes from a foundation, which was created by the owner of the company and technically is his choosing to do something with a portion of his earnings. But the company does directly channel a lot of money in to local schools (we could be the only school district where ALL the high schools made the national top 100 last year), it's never as simple as just handing over the money, but for every hour an employee gives their time to the school, such as volunteering in the classroom the company gives 17 dollars to the school. For every donation an employee makes to a charity, the donation is matched - I'm not sure exactly what bits of school are registered charities, but PTA fundraisers must be. It would be VERY interesting to see a break down of where money came from for the entire budget, I would guess that a significant amount does come indirectly from this one company. The one thing on this-in my experience, such grants come with strings, so I wouldn't assume that the money could be used wherever the school needs it. A lot of the basic classroom needs just aren't "sexy" to grantors-whether it's the federal government or private industry. So, you get schools where you have thousands of dollars in computer technology, but not enough books to go around, or situations (which happened to me), where the band program has gotten several large grants for instruments so low income students can participate, but no funding to purchase reeds and care items or pay for ongoing maintenance and repairs, and so on. Lots of positive press for the donations, but in reality, it still ended up largely that kids who had parents who could pay could do band-it just reduced the amount they needed to pay because the school now had an instrument for them to use. And the same applies to PTAs/PTOs. It's unlikely that parents will rush out and fundraise to buy crayons, since many of the PTA parents probably are more stretched for time than for money, but they'll do it for a greenhouse or smartboards. What usually happens if parents don't send in supplies is that the teachers are going around to Staples and Walmart and buying things they know their students will need cheaply out of their own pocket(many teachers actually go online and find out the sales before the flyers come out, so they can be at the store when it opens. Such threads are common on teaching message boards)-and then parents can't get the $.01 items at Staples because the teachers bought them all. There are freebies out there for classroom use, but you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't as a teacher. Military recruiters, for example, will happily outfit you with pencils, rulers, spiral notebooks, band folders, instrument tags, name tag lanyards and the like-but invariably, you'll have parents complaining that their child is being recruited into the military because you'll then have "Go Navy" or "Be all you can be" everywhere. Commercial companies will also provide many school supplies-but again, then your classroom is advertising whatever products they sell-and invariably, someone will complain. |
#96
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school supplies!
Anne Rogers wrote:
But my bet is that I know more about it than many of the parents, just from picking up random snippets of information - and it's not surprising if not knowing where exactly the money is going that parents quibble at the cost. Honestly, I've been heavily involved in communicating this sort of information for several activities, and I've come to the conclusion that while a lot of organizations are horrible on the communication front, being good at putting the information out isn't anywhere near enough! There are way too many parents who just don't read, and I'm starting to lose a certain amount of sympathy for them. It's downright irritating to spend hours and hours putting together handbooks and presentations and goodness knows how many other ways of conveying information, only to still have some parents who gripe about not knowing what the requirements are (or just assuming that requirements don't apply to them). The stories go on and on and on. I certainly relate to the dance stories, but in my opinion, it ought to be self-evident that pretty much any activity has stuff you need to know if you're going to pursue it seriously, and that means you have to read the material provided, attend the orientations scheduled, ask questions when something is unclear, and so forth. I don't think there is any way to force information into the head of someone who isn't interested. Like I said, there are plenty of organizations that are really bad at sharing information, in which case the organization has a good deal of responsibility for the ensuing confusion, but there are also plenty of folks who assume that unless someone corners them one-on-one and explains everything in very small words, it just isn't important enough to bother with. Best wishes, Ericka |
#97
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school supplies!
Anne Rogers wrote:
It is a challenge to build the kind of relationship and understanding that has the parent understanding that it would be wonderful if you could bring in the shoebox, but if you can't, don't worry. It's not very challenging at all. A good while before the activity requiring the supplies you send home a note that says the class is collecting pizza boxes for a project and asking folks to send in whatever pizza boxes they have. When the required number have been collected, send another note home saying mission accomplished. Problem solved. You just have to plan ahead. Best wishes, Ericka |
#98
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school supplies!
"Donna Metler" wrote in message ... The one thing on this-in my experience, such grants come with strings, so I wouldn't assume that the money could be used wherever the school needs it. A lot of the basic classroom needs just aren't "sexy" to grantors-whether it's the federal government or private industry. So, you get schools where you have thousands of dollars in computer technology, but not enough books to go around, or situations (which happened to me), where the band program has gotten several large grants for instruments so low income students can participate, but no funding to purchase reeds and care items or pay for ongoing maintenance and repairs, and so on. Lots of positive press for the donations, but in reality, it still ended up largely that kids who had parents who could pay could do band-it just reduced the amount they needed to pay because the school now had an instrument for them to use. But if the school wanted computers and instruments, then it is free money and they can use the money they would have used for computers and instruments on paper and pencils. If the companies had paid for paper and pencils, the school would have used the money they had for computers and instruments, which means it's all the same in the end. Now, if the school never wanted computers, they could just as well have turned down the offer. As for just reducing the amount the parents had to pay for band, well that might just be about what they needed in order to have the kids play in band. That many more children can now afford it because the instruments were free. If a business gives a needed supply, I think it should be appreciated. Sure, it's good publicity for them, but it is a generous offer. We shouldn't be grubbing for "what about this? what about that?" That's a good way to discourage donations altogether. We use the money we save from the donation for this and that. If the donation isn't needed, turn it down and make suggestions for alternatives. |
#99
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school supplies!
Rosalie B. wrote:
It is fair in that those people who pay taxes don't want to pay them, and try to get by as cheaply as they can. So they don't fund the schools. If their taxes really supported the schools, they wouldn't have to do that. OTOH I think that buying three times the amount of school supplies is pretty cheap compared to higher taxes. And it does actually only impact people who have children in school, and also have the ability to buy the supplies instead of putting it all back on the teachers. Oh, good grief. When I'm buying school supplies for four children at one time, it's a pretty damned hefty hit to the bank all at once, you know. So, yes, I think it's a little bit unreasonable to EXPECT parents to be buy 3x the amount they need to be. Oh, and BTW, I don't put up with the "I'm the teacher and I said so" attitude, either. Just because you sent home a letter demanding I WILL volunteer for a party for a holiday, doesn't mean I will. If you want my help, you may politely ask, you may not state that I AM helping you. Luckily for the teacher, my MIL likes to do school parties. I, however, don't. They are welcome to ask me to chaperone field trips (my own schedule allowing) because I happen to enjoy doing that. But I don't organize parties. (And, btw, when I was involved in homeschooling, I didn't do it then either...I organized the field trips.) Also, just because the school sends home little "school/parent contracts" insisting they must be signed doesn't mean they get signed. "Here's a list of our legal responsibilities that don't actually change whether or not you sign this. Here's a list of the ways we have decided we want you to parent. Sign and return it." Um, no. They do keep sending them home, though. I have never been able to get over the outrage that was expressed when I asked the kids to have a ruler with metric marks on it (in addition to inches). If you're equating me being a tad bit upset that I supplied my 5-year-old with enough school material for three five year olds, which were then immediately confiscated from her with a parent being upset over a ruler with inches vs. inches/metric (which isn't even a choice anymore, btw) then I think you need to go back and try reading again, or at least set aside some of your personal experiences, because you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Michelle Flutist |
#100
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school supplies!
toypup wrote:
If a business gives a needed supply, I think it should be appreciated. Sure, it's good publicity for them, but it is a generous offer. We shouldn't be grubbing for "what about this? what about that?" That's a good way to discourage donations altogether. We use the money we save from the donation for this and that. If the donation isn't needed, turn it down and make suggestions for alternatives. It is true that gifts should be appreciated. It is also true that givers should be thoughtful. Best wishes, Ericka |
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