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#111
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
In article , Ericka Kammerer says...
Banty wrote: I agree with your post, and I think it's a matter of balance. Why the increasing inflexibility? Well, I think it's two things. One is - yes - that focus on high-stakes test scores and other inappropriate measures. The other, though, is social deterioration. A generation ago - it *was* a big deal to ask for extra teacher prep for a child pulled out of school for an unusual situation or a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for travel. It happened, but not so often, and the situations brought up would be compelling. Now, it's any damn thing, cheaper ski trips, cheaper Disney, whatever, such that the sheer volume of such instances are unmanageable, and there's the snowballing effect of parents, tired of buying expensive airline tickets for an August vacation whilst hearing of their neighbors grabbing last-minute deals and pulling the kids out of school and getting accomodated, start doing the same thing. So the pendulum swings the other way, and the parents who *would* be very judicious about this matter are shut out, too. Old story of abuse of privelege. Could be. I hesitate to make those arguments because I wasn't there and tend to be leery of "good old days" arguments (because it often turns out the "good old days" weren't all that good). Certainly, I do know people who pull kids from school for reasons I wouldn't think would pass muster. On the other hand, I know lots of people who only do it for what I would consider good reasons (and many of them get hassled about it). I guess I just don't know on this one, but it sounds plausible on the face of it, at least ;-) I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same skepticism myself. But that is my perception about it. Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to such musings :-) Cheers, Banty |
#112
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
In article , chiam margalit
says... Chookie wrote in message ... In article , "Vicki" wrote: We have discussed getting appropriate challenge in her classroom--the teacher has been helpful, but there is only so much she can do. We chose not to skip dd to the next grade as she is already the youngest in her class. I've just been reading a book about exceptionally gifted children by Miraca Gross. She comes down heavily in favour of acceleration for the profoundly gifted, on the grounds that children (and adults) tend to befriend their *intellectual* peers rather than their age-peers. Her research/literature survey indicated that profoundly gifted children are usually socially and morally advanced as well as being academically advanced, and fit in well with *and are accepted by* older classmates, once they are officially members of that class. My only hesitation is that this book was written in 1989 and more research may have changed the picture a bit. No, the research still supports Gross's postulation that PG kids do seek their intellectual peers and do better socially with kids they can relate to rather than their age peers. But we're talking PROFOUNDLY gifted...kids with IQs over 180. That kind of kid is rare, really rare. A school might see one in a lifetime of teaching. Or none. I've read that an IQ of 180+ is a million to one shot. As the parent of a PG child, one who is radically accelerated and having the time of his life socially, I'd have to agree with Gross that socially acceleration is a G-dsend. *However*, we're having a *terrible* school year this year, and I'm really at my wits end, as is the school, with my PG child. I'm not going to go into details, but having a child who is 2-3 years younger than his classmates who are all going through puberty at a rapid clip, whereas my kid is not, has really been difficult for all concerned. My kid has a ton of friends, no doubt about it, but he's such a jerk right now that I just can't believe they still allow him to attend school every day. The age difference has really caught up with him, and he's not dealing with it very well. I don't think my child is alone in this, either. From my contact with other parents of PG kids, there seems to be a real issue in middle school with a child either leaning towards academics and being socially isolated, or socially popular but school suffers. I suppose it's the nature of middle school, but it seems fairly acute from my viewpoint. This is something that has come out concerning red-shirting (retaining, holding back) kids as well, but in the other direction. A second grade teacher may think she's done well by giving a kid the 'gift of time' if he seems OK in second grade again then third, but he or she probably won't stick around to see what the bearded 6th grader is going through with peers who have not matured with him phsycially. Hard to believe, but I'm not sure I'd recommend radical acceleration for any kid right now. I'm seeing the struggles first hand, and it's painful to watch. Although I know for my child, this was the right decision at the time, but I wish I had been less cavalier in my attitude a few years down the road. Maybe I'll feel differently once we have this all ironed out, but who knows. As has always been my experience, every school year brings totally different challanges, and what works one year might fail miserably the next. We've done the gamut, private, public, homeschooling, and nothing has been perfect or even close to it. These are tough kids to raise. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that rapid acceleration isn't the best solution among imperfect solutions. Banty |
#113
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote: I think the solutions have to depend at least somewhat on the district. The school district here is large, so it makes sense to have some of these separate programs. It's probably more effective and more efficient than trying to get every teacher to handle every situation. Other districts with fewer students or fewer resources might need to work more on making mainstreaming work. No program is perfect-- they all have downsides that need to be minimized, so I suppose you pick your poison and deal with it as best you can. As long as people are *trying*, I think it's a sight better than doing nothing ;-) The size of both the school and the school district make an enormous difference. My youngest brother went from K through graduation in the same building -- there was about one grade for every grade level. (One year -- the year for kids born starting about 9 months after a major strike during a very cold winter -- had two classes.) It was the only school in the district. He probably would have tested as profoundly gifted, but since there was no program available Mom never saw the point in having him tested. He went through school with a phenominal variety of ways teachers handled him. When he'd finish his work early and become a distraction to those around him, one elementary school teacher would have him balance her check book, run to the grocery store for her (with instructions that made him have to do math), prepare reports on something the rest of the class was interested in, get books from the library and other things that actually had some value (and that he enjoyed). He had a pretty good year. The next year, he had a teacher who would assign him extra pointless work, like copying pages out of an encyclopedia. By junior high, he'd learned to read upside down (it slowed him down -- at least temporarily -- so he wouldn't finish quite so early), and to get just enough wrong so he didn't get straight A's so he wouldn't be assigned extra work. Most of his teachers at least tried. The years he had teachers who didn't, Mom was much more likely to let him stay home sick for minor complaints provided he kept his grades up, which I think was a reasonable response. The other thing is the need for higher efficiency and lack of attention and energy to specialized needs outside these programs becuase of fiscal pressures. I think this is a major component. There are ways to work around much of it, but situations often conspire to make those difficult. Best wishes, Ericka -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#114
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Banty wrote:
I think, as far as programs for bright kids, again yes it's the high stakes testing and the need to pull up as many kids as possible as far as what's on the test. And the tests being geared toward mastery of a set of requried skills rather than being challenging such that the brighter kids really would perform to their max. Yes. By and large, while testing has a place, the way it's being used now does a disservice to *most* kids, IMO. I think though that the thinking concerning bright kids 'gifted and talented' has been so much along the lines of specialized programs that simpler options, but which require flexibility, aren't considered as much or as carefully. If there isn't a GT or pullout or 'magnet' program, that's pretty much that. In my district, there's always the *intention* to do something, and that acutally gets in the way of anything effective that can be set up more short-term. I think the solutions have to depend at least somewhat on the district. The school district here is large, so it makes sense to have some of these separate programs. It's probably more effective and more efficient than trying to get every teacher to handle every situation. Other districts with fewer students or fewer resources might need to work more on making mainstreaming work. No program is perfect-- they all have downsides that need to be minimized, so I suppose you pick your poison and deal with it as best you can. As long as people are *trying*, I think it's a sight better than doing nothing ;-) The other thing is the need for higher efficiency and lack of attention and energy to specialized needs outside these programs becuase of fiscal pressures. I think this is a major component. There are ways to work around much of it, but situations often conspire to make those difficult. Best wishes, Ericka |
#115
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
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#116
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:03:34 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote: : Oh, my dd : is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who came up : with such a stupid law? : : : Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks... : : Bush anyone? : : : Bingo. And as far as I can tell, it's going to : get worse, not better. : Bull. If this were true, all schools would have such restrictive policies. They don't. More and more are joining in the throng. It's only a matter of time. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#117
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Banty wrote:
I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same skepticism myself. But that is my perception about it. Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to such musings :-) Hey, at least you've "been there" for some of those "good old days"--that must count for something! ;-) Take care, Ericka |
#118
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
"ColoradoSkiBum" wrote in message ... : Oh, my dd : is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who came up : with such a stupid law? : : : Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks... : : Bush anyone? : : : Bingo. And as far as I can tell, it's going to : get worse, not better. : Bull. If this were true, all schools would have such restrictive policies. They don't. Only schools which recieve Title I funds risk sanctions under NCLB. Therefore, affluent schools can be much more flexible. The higher the % of students under title I, the less flexible the school can afford to be. In Vermont, whole districts have chosen to opt out, because such a small amount of their funding is threatened. And since such programs/policies are district-wide, if it's a large district where some schools are badly affected and some aren't, the rules are probably going to be written to meet the most stringent requirements. In addition every state handles school funding differently, and a great deal depends on how the state laws are written. If the school stands to lose funding on absense 11, they're going to be more stringent than if the state doesn't look at truancy as tightly. -- ColoradoSkiBum |
#119
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
Vicki wrote in :
[snip] Hi Penny-- We went and talked w/the teacher, and send notes back and forth each week, but have our first "official" conference with her in November. She gives dd some work more challenging then the mean, but hasn't challenged her yet. Firstly, its probably worth noting that 7-8yos in the UK have done at least two whole years of school, and sometimes three years. Oh, and I'm in the UK, so truancy laws etc are different. Secondly, my dd told me that all the maths was easy, but when we spoke at our conference last week, the teacher said sometime dd finds it harder then she tells me. There is a "group" of advanced kids they put in her classroom. But it's hard for the teacher--she didn't have reading material in her classroom at dd's level; My daughter is allowed to go to the school library (in the room next to her classroom) and choose her own books. But she normally reads books we have at home. The biggest problem is that we are suppsed to spend ten minutes a night listening to her read, and we both find this boring. The teacher has given us some books of poems, which is more fun for both of us, and has more unusual words: reading poems was our idea. she is doing one-digit addition and subtraction when dd is trying to figure out multiplication; her spelling words are one's that my 4-yo can do. dd seems to already knows most of the 2nd grade curriculum. Teacher works in some things that are more advanced for this "group", but much of the day dd is with the class on the normal lesson, or she colors, re ads, or talks with friends when she finishes early. The class is not being given spelling this year. For some subjects - such as geography and health, the class is taught together. For numeracy and literacy (or rather maths and English), the class is split into four groups, each with about 5 kids in it. Some of the time the class works together, some of the time each group works at its own level. Sometimes dd's group goes to the library to work on its own, but then as I said before, the library is in the next room. How much of your 7yo's day is spent doing things that challenge her? How much time is she separated out into this "group" of advanced kids? How are you measuring what she has learned? Does she do the same worksheets that the rest of the class does, and then the more challenging things on top of that? Or does the teacher substitute an entirely different worksheet book for her? For maths, each child has their own workbook, at the appropriate level for the child. In English, I think she gets the same worksheets, but is expected to write more then some of the other kids. Does the teacher have an assistant to help her teach two curriculums, or is s/he able to do this alone? We'd like dd to get a good education (which is why we thought of taking her out one day/wk for things not on teachers curriculum.) And we don't want to be unreasonable in what we ask of dd's teachers (this is why we try to volunteer to help the kids who are at the other end of the spectrum, to help narrow the range the teacher has to teach to.) The teacher has some assistance, but it is more aimed at helping a couple of kids who are behind: the assistant is not there full-time. Some of the things they get taught are new to everyone - they have been learning about teeth, so there is less need of extra work there. I don't think she finds school particuarly difficult, but she doesn't complain of being bored either. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#120
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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?
In article , Ericka Kammerer says...
Banty wrote: I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same skepticism myself. But that is my perception about it. Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to such musings :-) Hey, at least you've "been there" for some of those "good old days"--that must count for something! ;-) Hey - yup :-) Banty |
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