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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?



 
 
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  #111  
Old October 28th 03, 07:31 PM
Banty
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

In article , Ericka Kammerer says...

Banty wrote:


I agree with your post, and I think it's a matter of balance.

Why the increasing inflexibility? Well, I think it's two things. One is - yes
- that focus on high-stakes test scores and other inappropriate measures.

The other, though, is social deterioration. A generation ago - it *was* a big
deal to ask for extra teacher prep for a child pulled out of school for an
unusual situation or a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for travel. It happened,
but not so often, and the situations brought up would be compelling. Now, it's
any damn thing, cheaper ski trips, cheaper Disney, whatever, such that the sheer
volume of such instances are unmanageable, and there's the snowballing effect of
parents, tired of buying expensive airline tickets for an August vacation whilst
hearing of their neighbors grabbing last-minute deals and pulling the kids out
of school and getting accomodated, start doing the same thing. So the pendulum
swings the other way, and the parents who *would* be very judicious about this
matter are shut out, too. Old story of abuse of privelege.



Could be. I hesitate to make those arguments because
I wasn't there and tend to be leery of "good old days" arguments
(because it often turns out the "good old days" weren't all
that good). Certainly, I do know people who pull kids from
school for reasons I wouldn't think would pass muster. On
the other hand, I know lots of people who only do it for what
I would consider good reasons (and many of them get hassled
about it). I guess I just don't know on this one, but it
sounds plausible on the face of it, at least ;-)


I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same
skepticism myself.
But that is my perception about it.


Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to
such musings :-)

Cheers,
Banty

  #112  
Old October 28th 03, 07:39 PM
Banty
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

In article , chiam margalit
says...

Chookie wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Vicki" wrote:

We have discussed getting
appropriate challenge in her classroom--the teacher has been helpful, but
there is only so much she can do. We chose not to skip dd to the next grade
as she is already the youngest in her class.


I've just been reading a book about exceptionally gifted children by Miraca
Gross. She comes down heavily in favour of acceleration for the profoundly
gifted, on the grounds that children (and adults) tend to befriend their
*intellectual* peers rather than their age-peers. Her research/literature
survey indicated that profoundly gifted children are usually socially and
morally advanced as well as being academically advanced, and fit in well with
*and are accepted by* older classmates, once they are officially members of
that class. My only hesitation is that this book was written in 1989 and more
research may have changed the picture a bit.


No, the research still supports Gross's postulation that PG kids do
seek their intellectual peers and do better socially with kids they
can relate to rather than their age peers. But we're talking
PROFOUNDLY gifted...kids with IQs over 180. That kind of kid is rare,
really rare. A school might see one in a lifetime of teaching. Or
none. I've read that an IQ of 180+ is a million to one shot.

As the parent of a PG child, one who is radically accelerated and
having the time of his life socially, I'd have to agree with Gross
that socially acceleration is a G-dsend. *However*, we're having a
*terrible* school year this year, and I'm really at my wits end, as is
the school, with my PG child. I'm not going to go into details, but
having a child who is 2-3 years younger than his classmates who are
all going through puberty at a rapid clip, whereas my kid is not, has
really been difficult for all concerned. My kid has a ton of friends,
no doubt about it, but he's such a jerk right now that I just can't
believe they still allow him to attend school every day. The age
difference has really caught up with him, and he's not dealing with it
very well. I don't think my child is alone in this, either. From my
contact with other parents of PG kids, there seems to be a real issue
in middle school with a child either leaning towards academics and
being socially isolated, or socially popular but school suffers. I
suppose it's the nature of middle school, but it seems fairly acute
from my viewpoint.


This is something that has come out concerning red-shirting (retaining, holding
back) kids as well, but in the other direction. A second grade teacher may
think she's done well by giving a kid the 'gift of time' if he seems OK in
second grade again then third, but he or she probably won't stick around to see
what the bearded 6th grader is going through with peers who have not matured
with him phsycially.

Hard to believe, but I'm not sure I'd recommend radical acceleration
for any kid right now. I'm seeing the struggles first hand, and it's
painful to watch. Although I know for my child, this was the right
decision at the time, but I wish I had been less cavalier in my
attitude a few years down the road. Maybe I'll feel differently once
we have this all ironed out, but who knows. As has always been my
experience, every school year brings totally different challanges, and
what works one year might fail miserably the next. We've done the
gamut, private, public, homeschooling, and nothing has been perfect or
even close to it. These are tough kids to raise.


On the other hand, I wouldn't say that rapid acceleration isn't the best
solution among imperfect solutions.

Banty

  #113  
Old October 28th 03, 08:00 PM
dragonlady
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:



I think the solutions have to depend at least somewhat
on the district. The school district here is large, so it
makes sense to have some of these separate programs. It's
probably more effective and more efficient than trying to
get every teacher to handle every situation. Other districts
with fewer students or fewer resources might need to work
more on making mainstreaming work. No program is perfect--
they all have downsides that need to be minimized, so I
suppose you pick your poison and deal with it as best you
can. As long as people are *trying*, I think it's a sight
better than doing nothing ;-)


The size of both the school and the school district make an enormous
difference. My youngest brother went from K through graduation in the
same building -- there was about one grade for every grade level. (One
year -- the year for kids born starting about 9 months after a major
strike during a very cold winter -- had two classes.) It was the only
school in the district. He probably would have tested as profoundly
gifted, but since there was no program available Mom never saw the point
in having him tested.

He went through school with a phenominal variety of ways teachers
handled him. When he'd finish his work early and become a distraction
to those around him, one elementary school teacher would have him
balance her check book, run to the grocery store for her (with
instructions that made him have to do math), prepare reports on
something the rest of the class was interested in, get books from the
library and other things that actually had some value (and that he
enjoyed). He had a pretty good year. The next year, he had a teacher
who would assign him extra pointless work, like copying pages out of an
encyclopedia. By junior high, he'd learned to read upside down (it
slowed him down -- at least temporarily -- so he wouldn't finish quite
so early), and to get just enough wrong so he didn't get straight A's so
he wouldn't be assigned extra work.

Most of his teachers at least tried. The years he had teachers who
didn't, Mom was much more likely to let him stay home sick for minor
complaints provided he kept his grades up, which I think was a
reasonable response.


The other thing is the need for higher efficiency and lack of attention and
energy to specialized needs outside these programs becuase of fiscal
pressures.



I think this is a major component. There are ways
to work around much of it, but situations often conspire to
make those difficult.

Best wishes,
Ericka

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #114  
Old October 28th 03, 08:03 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Banty wrote:


I think, as far as programs for bright kids, again yes it's the high stakes
testing and the need to pull up as many kids as possible as far as what's on the
test. And the tests being geared toward mastery of a set of requried skills
rather than being challenging such that the brighter kids really would perform
to their max.



Yes. By and large, while testing has a place, the
way it's being used now does a disservice to *most* kids, IMO.


I think though that the thinking concerning bright kids 'gifted and talented'
has been so much along the lines of specialized programs that simpler options,
but which require flexibility, aren't considered as much or as carefully. If
there isn't a GT or pullout or 'magnet' program, that's pretty much that. In my
district, there's always the *intention* to do something, and that acutally gets
in the way of anything effective that can be set up more short-term.



I think the solutions have to depend at least somewhat
on the district. The school district here is large, so it
makes sense to have some of these separate programs. It's
probably more effective and more efficient than trying to
get every teacher to handle every situation. Other districts
with fewer students or fewer resources might need to work
more on making mainstreaming work. No program is perfect--
they all have downsides that need to be minimized, so I
suppose you pick your poison and deal with it as best you
can. As long as people are *trying*, I think it's a sight
better than doing nothing ;-)


The other thing is the need for higher efficiency and lack of attention and
energy to specialized needs outside these programs becuase of fiscal pressures.



I think this is a major component. There are ways
to work around much of it, but situations often conspire to
make those difficult.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #116  
Old October 28th 03, 09:06 PM
toto
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:03:34 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:


: Oh, my dd
: is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who
came up
: with such a stupid law?
:
:
: Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks...
:
: Bush anyone?
:
:
: Bingo. And as far as I can tell, it's going to
: get worse, not better.
:

Bull. If this were true, all schools would have such restrictive policies.
They don't.


More and more are joining in the throng. It's only a matter of time.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #117  
Old October 28th 03, 09:23 PM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Banty wrote:


I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same
skepticism myself.
But that is my perception about it.

Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to
such musings :-)



Hey, at least you've "been there" for some of those
"good old days"--that must count for something! ;-)

Take care,
Ericka

  #118  
Old October 28th 03, 09:47 PM
Donna Metler
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Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?


"ColoradoSkiBum" wrote in message
...

: Oh, my dd
: is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who
came up
: with such a stupid law?
:
:
: Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks...
:
: Bush anyone?
:
:
: Bingo. And as far as I can tell, it's going to
: get worse, not better.
:

Bull. If this were true, all schools would have such restrictive

policies.
They don't.

Only schools which recieve Title I funds risk sanctions under NCLB.
Therefore, affluent schools can be much more flexible. The higher the % of
students under title I, the less flexible the school can afford to be. In
Vermont, whole districts have chosen to opt out, because such a small amount
of their funding is threatened.

And since such programs/policies are district-wide, if it's a large district
where some schools are badly affected and some aren't, the rules are
probably going to be written to meet the most stringent requirements.

In addition every state handles school funding differently, and a great deal
depends on how the state laws are written. If the school stands to lose
funding on absense 11, they're going to be more stringent than if the state
doesn't look at truancy as tightly.


--
ColoradoSkiBum



  #119  
Old October 28th 03, 10:05 PM
Penny Gaines
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Posts: n/a
Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Vicki wrote in :
[snip]
Hi Penny--
We went and talked w/the teacher, and send notes back and forth each week,
but have our first "official" conference with her in November. She gives
dd some work more challenging then the mean, but hasn't challenged her
yet.


Firstly, its probably worth noting that 7-8yos in the UK have done at least
two whole years of school, and sometimes three years. Oh, and I'm in the
UK, so truancy laws etc are different.

Secondly, my dd told me that all the maths was easy, but when we spoke at
our conference last week, the teacher said sometime dd finds it harder
then she tells me.

There is a "group" of advanced kids they put in her classroom. But it's
hard for the teacher--she didn't have reading material in her classroom at
dd's level;


My daughter is allowed to go to the school library (in the room next to
her classroom) and choose her own books. But she normally reads books we
have at home. The biggest problem is that we are suppsed to spend ten
minutes a night listening to her read, and we both find this boring. The
teacher has given us some books of poems, which is more fun for both of us,
and has more unusual words: reading poems was our idea.

she is doing one-digit addition and subtraction when dd is
trying to figure out multiplication; her spelling words are one's that my
4-yo can do. dd seems to already knows most of the 2nd grade curriculum.
Teacher works in some things that are more advanced for this "group", but
much of the day dd is with the class on the normal lesson, or she colors,
re ads, or talks with friends when she finishes early.


The class is not being given spelling this year. For some subjects - such
as geography and health, the class is taught together. For numeracy
and literacy (or rather maths and English), the class is split into
four groups, each with about 5 kids in it. Some of the time the class
works together, some of the time each group works at its own level.
Sometimes dd's group goes to the library to work on its own, but then as
I said before, the library is in the next room.

How much of your 7yo's day is spent doing things that challenge her? How
much time is she separated out into this "group" of advanced kids? How
are
you measuring what she has learned? Does she do the same worksheets that
the rest of the class does, and then the more challenging things on top of
that? Or does the teacher substitute an entirely different worksheet book
for her?


For maths, each child has their own workbook, at the appropriate level for
the child. In English, I think she gets the same worksheets, but is
expected to write more then some of the other kids.

Does the teacher have an assistant to help her teach two
curriculums, or is s/he able to do this alone? We'd like dd to get a good
education (which is why we thought of taking her out one day/wk for things
not on teachers curriculum.) And we don't want to be unreasonable in what
we ask of dd's teachers (this is why we try to volunteer to help the kids
who are at the other end of the spectrum, to help narrow the range the
teacher has to teach to.)


The teacher has some assistance, but it is more aimed at helping a couple
of kids who are behind: the assistant is not there full-time.

Some of the things they get taught are new to everyone - they have been
learning about teeth, so there is less need of extra work there. I don't
think she finds school particuarly difficult, but she doesn't complain
of being bored either.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
  #120  
Old October 28th 03, 11:52 PM
Banty
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

In article , Ericka Kammerer says...

Banty wrote:


I understand your skepticism about 'good old days' arguments, I have the same
skepticism myself.
But that is my perception about it.

Although I *am* a middle middle-ager pushing 50 and therefore possibly prone to
such musings :-)



Hey, at least you've "been there" for some of those
"good old days"--that must count for something! ;-)



Hey - yup :-)

Banty

 




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