Grandma was right

"I'm still waiting for anyone to take up my long offered
challenge...find me some violent criminals that were not spanked or
otherwise subjected to pain based parenting."

I also have been stymied finding civilizations not corrupted by the
violence and oppression subjected on them during the subjugation
process. Nietzsche pointed out how the "Christians" came along and
"civilized" the free manly tribesmen by forcing them to do (women's
work) a slavery based on agriculture.

While free, the tribesmen were never beaten or oppressed by the
exploiters. They never had to perform slave drudgery such as tilling
the soil for their roman and feudal "overlords." Instead, the performed
such manly (free) activities as hunting the wild boar and the wild
stag. They fought off other tribesmen, or went on maurauding
expeditions themselves. They had no overpopulation problem. Did not
have to suffer through torture (school, religion, tilling the soil),
and generally did not have an excess of food, or an excess of babies
during the winter.

Thomas Hobbes was unimpressed with the "free" condition of those early
times, their high mortality rate, the starvation every winter. (No
wonder the women started planting gardens.)

Hobbes described the idyllic days of yo "No arts; no letters; no
society; and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of
violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and
short."

We need to face up to the horrible oppression and exploitation humanity
has suffered from the two nemeses of our innocence. Civiliation (ie,
Christianity), and second, parents.

Rousseau zeroed in on the corrupting influence of PARENTS. They bring
children into the world through biology. (And as if that is not
enough), they proceed, by dint of superior FORCE, to impose their
mores, their linguistic biases, their cultural biases, their values
(thus exploiting and oppressing defenseless children), infecting
children with their thought patterns, their mind set, their group
think, their prejudice.

And the method used is inherently corrupt. How can it not be called
VIOLENCE. Parenthood, like Civilization, is ipso facto bullying,
violent, and coercive.

The child has no choice.

I have heard that non white people tend to have higher levels of
credence and faith, a more basic attitude toward family values, lower
rates of abortion that whites.

I have also heard that, statistics wise, the white race shows higher
levels of weird "perversions" among the more educated elite males, and
that among undisciplined, often pampered white youth, there has been an
upsurge in such criminality as the Columbine "flip out."

Being more enlightened, white EXPERTS quickly found a range of
scapegoats to blame. But they never blamed the pampered, materialist,
permissive upbringing those boys got.

Is it true that white folks no longer insist on obediance from their
youth?

The Columbine boys were merely "disturbed." So what was their
infatuation with Goth Deth Dungeons and Dragons, and finally, mass
murder.

At least they were never spanked. Oh no. Their parents were too
enlightened for that.

(And these "smart" whites look down on other folks as being backward,
ignorant, old-fashioned?)

The "solution" is to get rid of the parents!

Doan


On 28 Oct 2005, robin wrote:

"I'm still waiting for anyone to take up my long offered
challenge...find me some violent criminals that were not spanked or
otherwise subjected to pain based parenting."

I also have been stymied finding civilizations not corrupted by the
violence and oppression subjected on them during the subjugation
process. Nietzsche pointed out how the "Christians" came along and
"civilized" the free manly tribesmen by forcing them to do (women's
work) a slavery based on agriculture.

While free, the tribesmen were never beaten or oppressed by the
exploiters. They never had to perform slave drudgery such as tilling
the soil for their roman and feudal "overlords." Instead, the performed
such manly (free) activities as hunting the wild boar and the wild
stag. They fought off other tribesmen, or went on maurauding
expeditions themselves. They had no overpopulation problem. Did not
have to suffer through torture (school, religion, tilling the soil),
and generally did not have an excess of food, or an excess of babies
during the winter.

Thomas Hobbes was unimpressed with the "free" condition of those early
times, their high mortality rate, the starvation every winter. (No
wonder the women started planting gardens.)

Hobbes described the idyllic days of yo "No arts; no letters; no
society; and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of
violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and
short."

We need to face up to the horrible oppression and exploitation humanity
has suffered from the two nemeses of our innocence. Civiliation (ie,
Christianity), and second, parents.

Rousseau zeroed in on the corrupting influence of PARENTS. They bring
children into the world through biology. (And as if that is not
enough), they proceed, by dint of superior FORCE, to impose their
mores, their linguistic biases, their cultural biases, their values
(thus exploiting and oppressing defenseless children), infecting
children with their thought patterns, their mind set, their group
think, their prejudice.

And the method used is inherently corrupt. How can it not be called
VIOLENCE. Parenthood, like Civilization, is ipso facto bullying,
violent, and coercive.

The child has no choice.

Let me assure you, Robin. Youth mental health issues know no racial
boundaries. Interest in "Goth Deth Dungeons and Dragons" is not an
indicator of mental health or being "disturbed." "Mass murder" is not
the inevitable outcome of "Goth Deth Dungeons and Dragons" interest and
involvement.

And why would you ask whether it is true that "white folks no longer
insist on obediance from their youth?" Does black youth gang
involvement and murder provoke the question "Is it true that black folks
no longer insist on obedience from their youth?" This is incredibly
racist thinking.

And how to you know, as you claim that the Columbine boys were never
spanked? And how do you explain the fact that the vast majority of
youth involvement in the juvenile justice system, regardless of race,
experienced corporal punishment at the hands of their parents, including
spanking?

LaVonne

robin wrote:

I have heard that non white people tend to have higher levels of
credence and faith, a more basic attitude toward family values, lower
rates of abortion that whites.

I have also heard that, statistics wise, the white race shows higher
levels of weird "perversions" among the more educated elite males, and
that among undisciplined, often pampered white youth, there has been an
upsurge in such criminality as the Columbine "flip out."

Being more enlightened, white EXPERTS quickly found a range of
scapegoats to blame. But they never blamed the pampered, materialist,
permissive upbringing those boys got.

Is it true that white folks no longer insist on obediance from their
youth?

The Columbine boys were merely "disturbed." So what was their
infatuation with Goth Deth Dungeons and Dragons, and finally, mass
murder.

At least they were never spanked. Oh no. Their parents were too
enlightened for that.

(And these "smart" whites look down on other folks as being backward,
ignorant, old-fashioned?)