FAO Hilary: OT dog question

Hilary,

Do you mind answering a question in your professional capacity? :-)

We have a new dog (a giveaway) whom we acquired as a companion for our
existing dog. She's a 1-2 year old female; he's around the same age;
both are neutered. She's a Walker Hound; he's a mixed breed, part
German Shepherd by his coloring, but he has a curly tail and floppy
ears and is medium sized.

So we have her temporarily chained in the front yard while he is in the
back, unfortunately attached to one of those overhead run deals because
he can climb our fence and we are trying to work on getting a privacy
fence. We've introduced the two of them on leashes several times and
we took them on a long walk together last night.

So this morning we took her back to visit him and all was well until
she got somewhat near his food and he went ballistic, launching a
snarling, biting attack which put her on the retreat with a bloody ear.
He has always been the gentlest dog imaginable, even with strays who
have snuck into his yard from time to time.

What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to get
rid of her?

TIA,

Leslie

So this morning we took her back to visit him and all was well until
she got somewhat near his food and he went ballistic, launching a
snarling, biting attack which put her on the retreat with a bloody ear.
He has always been the gentlest dog imaginable, even with strays who
have snuck into his yard from time to time.

What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to get
rid of her?

TIA,

Leslie

I'm sure Hilary will have a better answer, but I just wanted to chime in.
Can't you just have them together without the food dish or toys involved?
Have you not had them in the house together yet?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Sue wrote:
So this morning we took her back to visit him and all was well until
she got somewhat near his food and he went ballistic, launching a
snarling, biting attack which put her on the retreat with a bloody ear.
He has always been the gentlest dog imaginable, even with strays who
have snuck into his yard from time to time.

What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to get
rid of her?

TIA,

Leslie


I'm sure Hilary will have a better answer, but I just wanted to chime in.
Can't you just have them together without the food dish or toys involved?
Have you not had them in the house together yet?

I agree. It's resource guarding or food guarding. And completely
understandable. FWIW, our dogs are fed twice a day, separately
in their crates. If they were to ever not finish their meals (ha!)
we would pick their food up. While they share their toys fine,
they get a little snarky about bones and greenies, so they only
get those when they are supervised. Note that water bowls can
also trigger resource guarding (not always, but they can).

The other thing that might be going on, is that with dog 1
on a leash (essentially), that may increase aggressive
behavior. My two do fine with other dogs in off leash
situations, but when leashed and they meet new dogs they
get kind of snarky.

Mary W.

Leslie wrote:
What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to
get
rid of her?

IANAH, but when we got a second dog we joked that we'd cover the new
dog with peanut butter, and by the time that Max (the original dog)
found him under all the peanut butter, she'd be in too much bliss to
dislike him. She *really* likes peanut butter, though.

I've always read that you want to introduce dogs AWAY from their turf.
Existing Dog (who will be called Ed, new dog will be Ned, for lack of a
better name) - anyway, it's Ed's job to defend the house from people
and animals. By attacking her, unfortunately, Ed's doing his job. If
you introduce them away from the house and get them to like each other,
then bring them home together, they're more likely to accept each
other.

I'd also feed them separately and keep their toys separate (ie. don't
give Ed and Ned a reason to fight) until they're really, really cool
with each other.

It took about two weeks for our dogs to work it out. Sadly, the new
dog was pretty brain damaged from being passed from house to house, and
pack to pack, and he bit me last December and had to be put down (he
had been aggressive before, this was like his 5th strike). It sucked a
lot, but now that I'm pregnant I'm relieved that I won't have to worry
about him with the baby. Max, is still with us and is awesome with
people of all sizes, so we don't anticipate problems (even though she's
a huge cow of a dog).

There are books out there that talk about pack dynamics and whatnot.
You might consider picking one up. Also, I was really helped by
"Learning to Speak Dog" (or similar) which talked about how to read the
body language, etc. of dogs. They're working out their hierarchy, and
you kind of have to let them do it, to an extent. If you or your DH is
well established as the Alpha Dog, it shouldn't be too bad...

But I'm sure Hillary will have better advice...

Amy

"Leslie" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hilary,

Do you mind answering a question in your professional capacity? :-)

We have a new dog (a giveaway) whom we acquired as a companion for our
existing dog. She's a 1-2 year old female; he's around the same age;
both are neutered. She's a Walker Hound; he's a mixed breed, part
German Shepherd by his coloring, but he has a curly tail and floppy
ears and is medium sized.

So we have her temporarily chained in the front yard while he is in the
back, unfortunately attached to one of those overhead run deals because
he can climb our fence and we are trying to work on getting a privacy
fence. We've introduced the two of them on leashes several times and
we took them on a long walk together last night.

So this morning we took her back to visit him and all was well until
she got somewhat near his food and he went ballistic, launching a
snarling, biting attack which put her on the retreat with a bloody ear.
He has always been the gentlest dog imaginable, even with strays who
have snuck into his yard from time to time.

What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to get
rid of her?


Its funny how they know the difference between "visitor" and "for keeps".
My samoyed LOVED our new puppy until we took him HOME and he realized that
this was HIS new puppy. He became immediately depressed and miserable for
about three days, whereupon he decided "If you can't get rid of them, join
them in raucous play" and became overjoyed with his new puppy. During the
three days though, I wondered if I had made a terrible mistake. I emailed
my samoyed lisetserv an email entitled "Kavik hates his brother" and was
reassured that it can take up to four weeks, but usually dogs adjust quite
well in time, and that I shouldn't worry.

Resource guarding is a common problem. I would remove all guardable
resources from their interactions for now - this may be difficult as
sometimes humans become guardable - and introduce them slowly in a neutral
place. If you can go to a fenced area that is not "his yard", that might be
a good idea. There are dogs who cannot be fed near each other, who live
together happily - they each get fed in their crates and spend the rest of
the time playing without difficulties, so it may very well be managable.
The actual contact in the fight is not reassuring to me - most dog fights
are just arguments, lots of flashing teeth and no actual biting, but if she
is a treeing walker hound, I imagine her ears are long and they might have
just gotten in the way.

My favorite resource for dog owners with resource guarding problems is this
small book: http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB740

Sue wrote:

Can't you just have them together without the food dish or toys
involved?

This seems to be what everyone is saying--we will try this today.


Have you not had them in the house together yet?

They are only going to be in the house on rare occasions . . . my
husband has asthma and is allergic to dogs.

Leslie

Mary W. wrote:

I agree. It's resource guarding or food guarding. And completely
understandable.

Well, that's good to know. Our dogs when I was growing up ate from the
same bowl, so I've never seen this kind of behavior.

FWIW, our dogs are fed twice a day, separately
in their crates.

We,ve just been allowing him to eat from his bowl throughout the
day--guess we will have to make some changes.

If they were to ever not finish their meals (ha!)
we would pick their food up. While they share their toys fine,
they get a little snarky about bones and greenies, so they only
get those when they are supervised. Note that water bowls can
also trigger resource guarding (not always, but they can).


Ah . . . I was wondering about that.


The other thing that might be going on, is that with dog 1
on a leash (essentially), that may increase aggressive
behavior.

I wondered about that too, but I've got no solution for that part of
the problem ATM. Thanks, Mary.

Leslie

Amy wrote:
Leslie wrote:
What's up with that? Is there anything we can do, or do we need to
get
rid of her?

IANAH, but when we got a second dog we joked that we'd cover the new
dog with peanut butter, and by the time that Max (the original dog)
found him under all the peanut butter, she'd be in too much bliss to
dislike him. She *really* likes peanut butter, though.

I've always read that you want to introduce dogs AWAY from their
turf.
Existing Dog (who will be called Ed, new dog will be Ned, for lack of
a
better name) - anyway, it's Ed's job to defend the house from people
and animals. By attacking her, unfortunately, Ed's doing his job.
If
you introduce them away from the house and get them to like each
other,
then bring them home together, they're more likely to accept each
other.

Have only one car and therefore no safe way to GET them somewhere else.
We did introduce them at the other dog's former home (in the front
yard, though, not where she was being kept) before we decided to adopt
her. They played there and got along fine.



I'd also feed them separately and keep their toys separate (ie. don't
give Ed and Ned a reason to fight) until they're really, really cool
with each other.

It took about two weeks for our dogs to work it out. Sadly, the new
dog was pretty brain damaged from being passed from house to house,
and
pack to pack, and he bit me last December and had to be put down (he
had been aggressive before, this was like his 5th strike).


Oh, I'm sorry.

It sucked a
lot, but now that I'm pregnant I'm relieved that I won't have to
worry
about him with the baby.

I can understand that!

Max, is still with us and is awesome with
people of all sizes, so we don't anticipate problems (even though
she's
a huge cow of a dog).

There are books out there that talk about pack dynamics and whatnot.
You might consider picking one up. Also, I was really helped by
"Learning to Speak Dog" (or similar) which talked about how to read
the
body language, etc. of dogs. They're working out their hierarchy,
and
you kind of have to let them do it, to an extent. If you or your DH
is
well established as the Alpha Dog, it shouldn't be too bad...


Thanks, Amy. That book sounds interesting.

Child wrote:

Its funny how they know the difference between "visitor" and "for
keeps".
My samoyed LOVED our new puppy until we took him HOME and he realized
that
this was HIS new puppy.

Yes! They liked each other fine before we brought her home.

He became immediately depressed and miserable for
about three days, whereupon he decided "If you can't get rid of them,
join
them in raucous play" and became overjoyed with his new puppy.
During the
three days though, I wondered if I had made a terrible mistake. I
emailed
my samoyed lisetserv an email entitled "Kavik hates his brother" and
was
reassured that it can take up to four weeks, but usually dogs adjust
quite
well in time, and that I shouldn't worry.

That IS reassuring, thanks.



Resource guarding is a common problem. I would remove all guardable
resources from their interactions for now - this may be difficult as
sometimes humans become guardable - and introduce them slowly in a
neutral
place.

We will try that. I guess I am ignorant--I figured we'd bring her home
and put her in the yard and all would be bliss.

If you can go to a fenced area that is not "his yard", that might be
a good idea. There are dogs who cannot be fed near each other, who
live
together happily - they each get fed in their crates and spend the
rest of
the time playing without difficulties, so it may very well be
managable.
The actual contact in the fight is not reassuring to me - most dog
fights
are just arguments, lots of flashing teeth and no actual biting, but
if she
is a treeing walker hound, I imagine her ears are long and they might
have
just gotten in the way.

I do think he bit her on purpose actually.


My favorite resource for dog owners with resource guarding problems
is this
small book: http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB740


Thanks, I'll check it out.

Leslie