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Antibody hoax



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 07, 11:16 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 709
Default Antibody hoax

This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning. Especially in HIV antibody testing, it is clear that the antibodies
that are detected in the test are present in everybody. Some people have
them in higher concentrations, and some in lower concentrations, but only
when you reach a very high level of antibodies -- much higher than in any
other antibody testing -- are you considered to be "positive." This is a
contradiction in terms because in other antibody tests, the lower your level
of antibodies, the higher your risk for a symptomatic infection. But with
HIV they say you are "positive" only when you have reached a very high level
of antibodies. Below this level, you are said to be negative. [1995]
INTERVIEW STEFAN LANKA

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/antibody.html


  #2  
Old February 2nd 07, 12:14 AM posted to misc.kids.health
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 780
Default Antibody hoax


"JOHN" wrote in message
...
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning. Especially in HIV antibody testing, it is clear that the
antibodies that are detected in the test are present in everybody.


Actually, they're not. They are present only in people who are infected with
the virus.

Some people have them in higher concentrations, and some in lower
concentrations, but only when you reach a very high level of antibodies --
much higher than in any other antibody testing -- are you considered to be
"positive."


Actually, not true. Please provide evidence that to be considered positive,
the level of antibody testing is higher than in all other tests.

contradiction in terms because in other antibody tests, the lower your
level of antibodies, the higher your risk for a symptomatic infection.


No it isn't. All the other tests do is indicate that you have been exposed
to the virus or bacterium and are making antibody. With most viral
infections, the body is able to clear the virus from the body. This is not
true with HIV. So the antibody test just indicates that the body has been
exposed to the virus.

But with HIV they say you are "positive" only when you have reached a very
high level of antibodies. Below this level, you are said to be negative.
[1995]


You are postive when you have reach a low-level of antibodies.

A lot has been learned since 1995. Now, a test call PCR is done. PCR is able
to replicate the RNA from the virus, making much easier to find the virus
(not the antibodies) in a person.


INTERVIEW STEFAN LANKA

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/antibody.html


I see you problem now. This site is a very unreliable site. The author is
too ashamed to put her name on it. Don' blame her. She clearly has no clue
about science or medicine.

Jeff


  #3  
Old February 2nd 07, 05:49 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
David Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 718
Default Antibody hoax

In article ,
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning. Especially in HIV antibody testing, it is clear that the antibodies
that are detected in the test are present in everybody. Some people have
them in higher concentrations, and some in lower concentrations, but only
when you reach a very high level of antibodies -- much higher than in any
other antibody testing -- are you considered to be "positive." This is a
contradiction in terms because in other antibody tests, the lower your level
of antibodies, the higher your risk for a symptomatic infection. But with
HIV they say you are "positive" only when you have reached a very high level
of antibodies. Below this level, you are said to be negative. [1995]
INTERVIEW STEFAN LANKA


Lanka is just about the only "virologist" in the world who doesn't
believe in HIV. I put the term in quotes not because I disdain
virologists but because I don't think he's worthy of the title.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If George Bush were my dad, I'd be drunk in public so often that
James Baker would have me killed." -- Bill Maher on the Bush twins
  #4  
Old February 2nd 07, 02:56 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
Bryan Heit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Antibody hoax

JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.



Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies
which determine that an immune response has occurred.

Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine,
virology and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up

Antibodies come in multiple "flavors", called isotypes. Each has a
specific function. Antibody-producing cells (B cells) are continually
produced by our immune system. B cells "create" antibodies through the
random recombination of DNA followed by mutation of the resulting
genetic sequences. Those cells which identify our body with high
affinity are eliminated, the rest mature into B cells. Because this is
a random process we will have B-cells which identify pretty much
anything - including HIV.

These new B-cells produce 2 very specific types of antibodies - IgM and
IgD. As such the presence of these antibodies do not indicate the
presence of an immune response. However, when B-cells become activated
they undergo a process called class switch, and begin producing
different isotypes of antibody - IgG, IgA & IgE, depending on the type
of immune response and its location in your body. For the rest of its
lifetime, even if/after the infection is cleared, these cells will
continue to produce one of these isotypes of antibody.

These forms of antibody - IgG, IgE and IgA are produced only AFTER you
have had an immune response against the specific pathogen identified by
those cells (or when you encounter a proxy antigen, in a vaccine).
Hence, we know that if you detect these isoforms of antibodies against
an infectious agent that you have been exposed to that agent.

Of course Lanka failed to mention that, but given his background, and
Johns continued dishonesty, no one here is surprised.

Probably the last thing worth pointing out is that in developed nations,
serological testing rarely used anymore. Far more sensitive and
accurate tests, like PCR, are now the standard test (and a hell of a lot
cheaper). Leave it to John to be a decade out of date.

Bryan
  #5  
Old February 2nd 07, 03:29 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 709
Default Antibody hoax


"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.



Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies which
determine that an immune response has occurred.

Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up


Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.

here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven to
do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html

"If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while there
is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific evidence to
support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a non-A, non-B
hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an associated virus is weak
at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask, how can we vaccinate people
against a disease-causing agent that has not been fully characterized?"---Dr
Urnovitz http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html



  #6  
Old February 2nd 07, 03:50 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 780
Default Antibody hoax


"JOHN" wrote in message
...

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.



Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies
which determine that an immune response has occurred.

Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up


Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.


But, can you understand them? From your responses here, I doubt it.

here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven
to do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html


The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited. The
site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why Hib
menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why polio all
but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are good
vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.

The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.

"If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while
there is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific
evidence to support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a
non-A, non-B hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an
associated virus is weak at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask,
how can we vaccinate people against a disease-causing agent that has not
been fully characterized?"---Dr Urnovitz
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html


There are several different viruses that cause hepatitis besides Hep A and
B. There is a Hep D virus, which can only replicate with the help of
hepatitis B virus. There are hep. E and F viruses. CMV and Epstein Barre
viruses can cause hepatitis. So can HIV. And, of course, there is hepatitis
C, for which there is overwhelming evidence.

The guy on this page calls himself a scientist. A jerk is more like it.

Testifying before Congress doesn't make him correct. People who say there is
no global warming and people who said that Iraq has weapons of mass
destruction have testified before Congress, too.

Jeff


  #7  
Old February 2nd 07, 05:07 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
Bryan Heit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Antibody hoax

Jeff wrote:
"JOHN" wrote in message
Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.


But, can you understand them? From your responses here, I doubt it.



john has sown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he does not understand
them. The simplest biology is beyond him, as is logic, or for that
matter, sane thought.



The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.


john is the whaleto developer, explains a lot, doesn't it!

Bryan
  #8  
Old February 2nd 07, 06:02 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 709
Default Antibody hoax


"Jeff" wrote in message news:9dIwh.62$VY5.16@trnddc08...


The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
The site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why
Hib menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why
polio all but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are
good vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.


and aren't you the guy who complains about personal attacks


The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.


first guy to cotton on to my sex change


  #9  
Old February 2nd 07, 07:21 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 780
Default Antibody hoax


"JOHN" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
news:9dIwh.62$VY5.16@trnddc08...


The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited.
The site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why
Hib menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why
polio all but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are
good vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.


and aren't you the guy who complains about personal attacks


I am commenting on the content of the site.

The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on
the whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her
name on it.


first guy to cotton on to my sex change


I didn't know you had a sex change. No one I have seen claims to be the
author of the site, so I am assuming that it is a female who is writing the
site. It may be a male. Either way, it is a clueless twit.

And, no, this is not a personal attack. I am commenting on the demonstrated
intellectual skills of the author.

Jeff


  #10  
Old February 3rd 07, 03:02 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med.immunology,talk.politics.medicine,uk.people.health
Peter Bowditch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,038
Default Antibody hoax

"Jeff" wrote:


"JOHN" wrote in message
...

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
JOHN wrote:
This is the main plank of vaccine studies and vaccination

I'm absolutely sure that no antibody test in medicine has any absolute
meaning.


Actually, they do. Its not a matter of antibody or no antibody; it's
having elevated amounts of specific types of antibodies - antibodies
which determine that an immune response has occurred.

Now I know that John has no grasp of science, biology, medicine, virology
and immunology, so I'll type slow so he can keep up


Yeah, I can read textbooks anytime I want.


But, can you understand them? From your responses here, I doubt it.

here is the man doing vaccination research when it has never been proven
to do anything except kill and maim kids, how smart is that?
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html


The whaleto site and its developers are obviously very mentally limited. The
site fails to explain why measles is not seen in people who have been
vaccinated, but shows up in developed countries in areas where there are
large populations that are not vaccinated. The site fails to explain why Hib
menigitis rarely is seen in the US. The site fails to explain why polio all
but disappeared from the US and other planes where there are good
vaccination rates. Why we don't see smallpox anymore.

The author of the whale site, whoever she is, fails to put her name on the
whale site. I can only surmise that she is too ashamed to put her name on
it.


I'm surprised that John keeps citing whale.to as a source. Within the
last couple of days he has refused to accept that a statement
attributed to anti-vaccination liar Ray Gallup which appears on
whale.to contains words actually written by Mr Gallup.

I do like the page about me at whale.to, though. It's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html and I am so ashamed of it that I
link to it from my web site. Just in case you missed it, it's at
http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html

I love the part at the bottom where whoever owns the whale.to site
exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the term "ad hominem".

"If you read the literature very carefully, you will find that, while
there is a strong marker for the disease, there is no hard scientific
evidence to support the existence of a hepatitis C virus. Clearly, a
non-A, non-B hepatitis disease exists, but the science behind an
associated virus is weak at best. As a scientist I am compelled to ask,
how can we vaccinate people against a disease-causing agent that has not
been fully characterized?"---Dr Urnovitz
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/urnovitz.html


There are several different viruses that cause hepatitis besides Hep A and
B. There is a Hep D virus, which can only replicate with the help of
hepatitis B virus. There are hep. E and F viruses. CMV and Epstein Barre
viruses can cause hepatitis. So can HIV. And, of course, there is hepatitis
C, for which there is overwhelming evidence.

The guy on this page calls himself a scientist. A jerk is more like it.

Testifying before Congress doesn't make him correct. People who say there is
no global warming and people who said that Iraq has weapons of mass
destruction have testified before Congress, too.

Jeff

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
 




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