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VENT - Why do people make things difficult?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 16th 05, 08:33 PM
bizby40
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Default VENT - Why do people make things difficult?


Our Girl Scout leaders are retiring after 5 years. All I wanted to do was
to get a little gift, show a little appreciation. After all, we haven't
given them anything as a group *ever*.

So I send out e-mail and ask for ideas - "Great idea! Thanks! Whatever you
want to do is fine!"

Grrr.

So I decide to give them a framed picture of the girls, and have the girls
sign the matte. I also decided to get a little brass plate to go on the
picture frame. I asked the parents to have their girls wear their uniforms
to school tomorrow (regular meeting day) so I could get the picture. I also
asked for donations to pay for the framing, with whatever is left over to be
put into gift certificates for the leaders.

"How much should we donate?"

"Oh, I don't know, how about $10"

"$10 is too much!"

"Okay, well whatever you want is fine."

"My daughter doesn't have a uniform!"

"I only meant her sash or vest -- most of the girls don't have full
uniforms."

"Well, *my* daughter doesn't have a sash or vest!"

Grrr.

"Look, wear whatever you want -- show up or don't show up -- donate or don't
donate -- I *don't* care anymore! Why did I ever get into this???"

Okay, I didn't actually send out that last one, but the others all went back
and forth. Now I know why I'm not the one to try to organize anything from
a group. Too much hassle. You know, I didn't expect every parent to
donate, but this isn't a collection for the co-worker you didn't really like
in the first place, these two women have put in countless hours over the
course of 5 long years for *our* children! There are ~15 regular meetings
during the year, plus field trips, camping and so forth. It's a tremendous
amount of work, and I'm personally ashamed that we've never done anything as
a group to show our appreciation. I've given them token thank you gifts in
the past, as have a few others, but the bulk of the parents have not.

So I'm a bit surprised at how few people have responded at all. And rather
frustrated by those being difficult about it. And honestly, I didn't know
what to say to the woman whose daughter doesn't have a sash or vest. I know
her well enough to know money isn't the issue. Her son has a full scout
uniform, and both kids are well equipped for the many sports they play. I
mean, obviously she doesn't need to have the vest to be in the picture, but
why the heck doesn't she have it? It's not even the girl's first year in
scouts!

Anyway, I do have one question. If the bulk of the parents donated, then I
was planning to give the pictures from the "troop". However, if only 4 or 5
out of 23 help out, what should I do? Should I give only the people that
donated a chance to sign the card? Would you feel cheated if everyone who
did nothing was given the same "credit" as you if you donated?

Bizby


  #2  
Old March 16th 05, 08:45 PM
Beth Kevles
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Default


Hi --

The gift should not be seen a from the parents, but as from the girls.
THe girls sign the matte, the girls are responsible for showing up to
get photographed ... and EVERY girl should see herself as helping to
give the gift. (Isn't this part of what scouting is about?)

Regardless of whether or not the families give (and you can certainly do
your best to make them feel guilty :-) no girl should feel left out from
the gift giving.

My two cents,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.
  #3  
Old March 16th 05, 09:25 PM
bizby40
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"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

The gift should not be seen a from the parents, but as from the girls.
THe girls sign the matte, the girls are responsible for showing up to
get photographed ... and EVERY girl should see herself as helping to
give the gift. (Isn't this part of what scouting is about?)

Regardless of whether or not the families give (and you can certainly do
your best to make them feel guilty :-) no girl should feel left out from
the gift giving.


No, certainly I wouldn't want the girls to feel left out. But I'm not
good at trying to make people feel guilty. I'll just have to hope a few
more step up. Enough at least that I don't have too big of an out of
pocket expense myself. I already ended up paying the lion's share
of the cost for the fruit and veggie trays that we took to the Cub
Scout Blue and Gold dinner because the other parents didn't all
step up and give their share.

Bizby

My two cents,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.



  #4  
Old March 16th 05, 11:08 PM
Banty
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Default

In article , bizby40 says...


"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

Hi --

The gift should not be seen a from the parents, but as from the girls.
THe girls sign the matte, the girls are responsible for showing up to
get photographed ... and EVERY girl should see herself as helping to
give the gift. (Isn't this part of what scouting is about?)

Regardless of whether or not the families give (and you can certainly do
your best to make them feel guilty :-) no girl should feel left out from
the gift giving.


No, certainly I wouldn't want the girls to feel left out. But I'm not
good at trying to make people feel guilty. I'll just have to hope a few
more step up. Enough at least that I don't have too big of an out of
pocket expense myself. I already ended up paying the lion's share
of the cost for the fruit and veggie trays that we took to the Cub
Scout Blue and Gold dinner because the other parents didn't all
step up and give their share.


I've volunteered in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts (just gave a set of seminars and
activities for the Weather Badge for my troop), and you know what? This has
gotten to be my credo:

If it ain't already explicitly accounted for in the budget (like the newsletter
stamps were explicity accounted for) - I just pay for it. No, I ain't rich, but
I just pay for it.

The 'extra' stamps for the Cub Scout newsletters so that it can go to some
grandmas and both of shared-custody households as well as to the 'main'
households? I just paid for it.

The copying to produce the newsletter so that it woudn't be crooked, white, and
half-smudged copies some eager volunteer offered to get off the school copiers
in the afternoon (I tried that option *once*)? I just paid for it.

The pre-printed weather maps, erasible synoptic weather poster, materials for
the cloud experiments? I paid for it all.

Why??

I'm a chump :-)

No, really - to my mind, it's my *time* that by far the more valuable chunk of
my giving anyway, some money too is a nit. And far and away outweighs the
hassle of explaining why I don't want Mrs. Smith's barely-in-time and
barely-readable, though free, newsletter copies, why Mr. Jones should get a
newsletter as well as Mrs. Jones, why the weather maps stuff is really really
cool, etc .etc.

It's not the right answer for everybody, but there it is..

I also avoid all the organizing type of stuff, frankly, so I can't help you
there. With volunteer work, you really gotta hang loose about what other people
do as far as their committments. A lot of people are just flakes.

If *I* were doing your thing, I'd work with the girls only, talk to the parents
about the uniforms for the picture day and that's it. And have it be a totally
girls' thing. And eat the costs. Not saying that's the answer for you..

I've seen a lot of really neat ideas go by the wayside because money came up.
But I'm not the only chump - in our Cub Scout pack our Secretary srpung for
individual family photo albums with camp photos. Must have been at least a good
hundred dollars.

Cheers,
Banty

  #5  
Old March 16th 05, 11:35 PM
bizby40
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Default


"Banty" wrote in message
...
I'm a chump :-)


lol -- no you're a good person. A better person than I am at any rate.

No, really - to my mind, it's my *time* that by far the more valuable
chunk of
my giving anyway, some money too is a nit. And far and away outweighs the
hassle of explaining why I don't want Mrs. Smith's barely-in-time and
barely-readable, though free, newsletter copies, why Mr. Jones should get
a
newsletter as well as Mrs. Jones, why the weather maps stuff is really
really
cool, etc .etc.

It's not the right answer for everybody, but there it is..

I also avoid all the organizing type of stuff, frankly, so I can't help
you
there. With volunteer work, you really gotta hang loose about what other
people
do as far as their committments. A lot of people are just flakes.

If *I* were doing your thing, I'd work with the girls only, talk to the
parents
about the uniforms for the picture day and that's it. And have it be a
totally
girls' thing. And eat the costs. Not saying that's the answer for you..

I've seen a lot of really neat ideas go by the wayside because money came
up.
But I'm not the only chump - in our Cub Scout pack our Secretary srpung
for
individual family photo albums with camp photos. Must have been at least
a good
hundred dollars.


I do know that a lot of volunteers do end up paying for a lot of things
out of pocket. That's true to some extent for me as well -- as in the
B&G dinner thing above, and certainly in other things I've done as
well. I guess the difference for me in this case is that it's supposed
to be a gift from the troop. I probably should have asked people
ahead of time to let me know for sure whether they wanted to
participate, rather than taking silence as tacit approval. I'll know
better next time.

Bizby

Cheers,
Banty



  #6  
Old March 17th 05, 12:03 AM
Banty
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Default

In article , bizby40 says...



I do know that a lot of volunteers do end up paying for a lot of things
out of pocket. That's true to some extent for me as well -- as in the
B&G dinner thing above, and certainly in other things I've done as
well. I guess the difference for me in this case is that it's supposed
to be a gift from the troop. I probably should have asked people
ahead of time to let me know for sure whether they wanted to
participate, rather than taking silence as tacit approval. I'll know
better next time.

Bizby


Well, $10 is a little much, I'm sure the parents involved did a little
calculation in their head as to how many kids x 10 = a lot more than a picture
frame. I know you meant to make a gift certificate out of the remainder, but
it's still a little much. If you had an exact figure such that each family
could see what the calculation was, the reaction might have been a little
better.

But, there's the whole question of chasing everyone down, stragglers such that
you know you'll be stuck with some out-of-pocket, etc. Like I said, I avoid all
this stuff :-)

Events like Blue and Gold dinners all had to be paid in advance - we'd even go
through the artifice of selling the tickets for them.

I do appreciate what some people said about getting nicket-and-dimed by all this
gift stuff. By fifth grade I was pretty tired of it. Actually, I've not seen
any thankyou gifts to the Pack leaders or any of the Scoutmasters. As a Den
coleader me and the leader got thankyous when our boys were Sr. Webelos about to
cross over. But the Den is a more small-scale personal group.

Banty

  #7  
Old March 17th 05, 12:03 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Banty wrote:

I also avoid all the organizing type of stuff, frankly, so I can't help you
there. With volunteer work, you really gotta hang loose about what other people
do as far as their committments. A lot of people are just flakes.

If *I* were doing your thing, I'd work with the girls only, talk to the parents
about the uniforms for the picture day and that's it. And have it be a totally
girls' thing. And eat the costs. Not saying that's the answer for you..


That's usually my solution too, but it is a luxury to be able to
use it as a solution ;-)
As far as people being flakes, some are, but some are just
overcommitted in other areas. The person who isn't pulling her (it's
almost always mom, isn't it? :-/) weight with the girl scouts may be
the overworked and underappreciated person running the show for the
youth soccer league, or whatever. There certainly are folks who end
up taking the lead with most things their kids do (usually because
they're competent at the job and too much of a sucker to say no)
and others who never do anything, but there are a lot of folks in
between too.
As far as managing costs goes, if I'm not willing to pay
for it all, I would never just ask everyone if they're interested
in idea X. They'll all tell you it's a wonderful idea and you'll
go forward thinking that means they're willing to pull their weight
with the idea, but most of them just mean they'd love to see you
handle the situation without any input from them. If I want
cooperation from others, I'll float the idea with *specific*
information:

"What do you all think about doing X? It would requi

1) Everyone to do X, Y, and Z
2) Everyone to contribute $N
3) Volunteers to fill jobs A, B, and C

If everyone agrees to #1 and #2 and there are enough
volunteers to cover #3, I'll be happy to coordinate."

Anything short of that level of specificity won't get
you the support you want.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #8  
Old March 17th 05, 03:22 AM
Catherine Woodgold
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Ericka Kammerer ) writes:
"What do you all think about doing X? It would requi

1) Everyone to do X, Y, and Z
2) Everyone to contribute $N
3) Volunteers to fill jobs A, B, and C

If everyone agrees to #1 and #2 and there are enough
volunteers to cover #3, I'll be happy to coordinate."


Excellent!

I tried to do this sort of thing when deciding
whether to do Girl Guide field trips or not, but I
didn't manage to get that specific about it.
That sounds like the way to do it!
Oh, one more thing: the deadline date.
"If we have enough volunteers by XX date,
we'll go ahead." Later if people ask
"Weren't we going to do X?" you say,
"No, nobody volunteered to do C."
A week before the deadline you can send another
email, "We still need someone to do C or
we won't be doing it."

The deadline date has to be weeks ahead
to leave time to organize the thing, usually.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.
  #9  
Old March 17th 05, 05:26 AM
bizby40
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Thanks everyone for your feedback. I don't think I'll try anything like
this in the future, but if I do, I'll definitely know to do things
differently.

As an aside -- our soccer coach asked everyone to bring $10 to the first
practice to cover the cost of trophies and a season -end gathering for the
kids. I noticed I was the only one to bring th money.

Bizby


  #10  
Old March 17th 05, 03:17 AM
Catherine Woodgold
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Banty ) writes:
No, really - to my mind, it's my *time* that by far the more valuable chunk of
my giving anyway, some money too is a nit.


I did this too. If it takes up some of my valuable
time to keep track of a receipt for a small amount of money
and do the paperwork to get it refunded -- sometimes I'd rather
just forget it and pay it myself. I figure the time
spent sorting out the receipts and stuff doesn't
really contribute to society overall, besides being
an un-favourite thing for me to spend time doing.
--
Cathy
A *much* better world is possible.
 




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