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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...8922ea390c63a2
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:48:28 -0500 The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. "We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... From: "bessie" Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04:32 -0800 - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - tiny dancer wrote: The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. And AirTran and it's customers thank the idiot! From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:00 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Pick the kid up, stick her in the seat and HOLD HER THERE. For goodness sakes. From: lenona Date: 23 Jan 2007 12:28:26 -0800 And no one seems to have asked the parents: "Don't you think it was unfair to make her fly when she'd just had ear surgery and probably was starting to feel severe pain already?" Again, why should the passengers put up with that? Lenona. From: "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:45:27 +1100 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... If any passenger, for any reason, illness, whatever, delayed an air flight 15 minutes, the airline is likely justified in ejecting them. BUT. The article does not say the *child delayed the flight for 15 minutes. It simply says the flight was delayed 15 minutes. So when attendants walked thru and the kid wasn't in her seat then and the they threw them off the plane. That's the way I read it. The dad said they were not allowed ANY time to deal with their child. The article supports this. I don't think the airline would have given them free tickets otherwise. AirTran just wanted to keep to their flight schedule and not lose passengers (and $) connecting at the other end. [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:28:59 -0900 "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away wrote in message ... [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) Well, I'm pretty anti-spanking - I think there are better ways to discipline your child HOWEVER, unless this child was special needs, there is no reason a three year old should be throwing a tantrum. The only three year olds I have EVER met who still threw tantrums were my neice, who was coddled, comforted every time she threw a fit her entire toddlerdom (and shes four now and still throwing inappropriate tantrums) and my friends special needs child. The whole "we didn't have time to comfort her" leads me to believe that these parents are like my brother and his wife - loving, caring and wayyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive to their childs tears. I love my child and when hes hurt and crying I'm concerned. I'm even concerned when he's not hurt and crying, but he cant' always get his way because he's crying (way to reward ****ty behavior). In this particular case I would have picked my child up, put the child in the seat and said "Sorry you are angry hon, but you need to sit in your seat now. See mommy sits in her seat. Daddy sits in his seat. The nice lady over there sits in her seat" and then brought out a toy or book to distract. This child was three and still hitting her parents. They couldnt' extract her from under the seats. This must mean they were asking her to come out instead of getting her out. Bad parenting, imo. From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:02:19 -0500 "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away wrote in message ... [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) Well, I'm pretty anti-spanking - I think there are better ways to discipline your child I use *spanking* for lack of a better term. I'm not against *popping* a hand or butt, depending upon the circumstances. Every child is different. Some toddlers respond to corrections, some respond to removing the child from the electrical outlets. Some are easily distracted. Some you can tell them NO NO, and remove them till hell freezes over and nothing seems to deter them. Of course these are all just my opinion. I remember when jake was just beginning to really get around. He continually went for my cords plugged into outlets. I told him NO NO, kept getting up and directing him in another direction, etc. Finally as he was reaching up to yank a cord for the hundreth time, I grabbed his fist and popped it. Said "grandma said NO, jake, no no. No touch. I had a really firm voice, my most severe *look*, I'm sure you are well acquainted with *the look* one uses. ;-] But that *popping* of the hand worked. In fact the next time I caught him going for a plug, I gave him 'the look' and said 'grandma said NO'. He started to reach his hand out towards the outlet, where upon I lifted my hand in an upwards motion, pre-popping if you will. Jake promptly stuck his hand behind his back so I couldn't pop it. He gave me this grin and that was the last time we had an 'outlet issue'. It was really funny, watching this 16 month old reason all this through. His face, expression, was priceless. I can't speak for all, only my experience with my own kids. Each one was quite different in what they responded to. I will say though, there was no *need* for any sort of *popping* by the time they were three years old. They had already learned what was acceptable and what wasn't, and that they were to listen to mom when she said something. The only time I recall dealing out a spanking was for running in the street. Not *toddler* running into the street. *Child* 'old enough to know better' running into the street. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HOWEVER, unless this child was special needs, there is no reason a three year old should be throwing a tantrum. The only three year olds I have EVER met who still threw tantrums were my neice, who was coddled, comforted every time she threw a fit her entire toddlerdom (and shes four now and still throwing inappropriate tantrums) and my friends special needs child. The whole "we didn't have time to comfort her" leads me to believe that these parents are like my brother and his wife - loving, caring and wayyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive to their childs tears. I love my child and when hes hurt and crying I'm concerned. I'm even concerned when he's not hurt and crying, but he cant' always get his way because he's crying (way to reward ****ty behavior). In this particular case I would have picked my child up, put the child in the seat and said "Sorry you are angry hon, but you need to sit in your seat now. See mommy sits in her seat. Daddy sits in his seat. The nice lady over there sits in her seat" and then brought out a toy or book to distract. This child was three and still hitting her parents. They couldnt' extract her from under the seats. This must mean they were asking her to come out instead of getting her out. Bad parenting, imo. I can think of little I hate worse than a kid throwing a tantrum. Luckily none of mine were tantrum throwers. I remember flying once with all three of mine, when the baby was only about six or eight weeks old, the other two were three and five. We didn't have any problems. The girls all behaved fine. As you said, I brought a carry on with some toys and snacks to keep them occupied. None of my kids ever slapped/hit me. What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] td - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:23:26 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... I can think of little I hate worse than a kid throwing a tantrum. Luckily none of mine were tantrum throwers. I remember flying once with all three of mine, when the baby was only about six or eight weeks old, the other two were three and five. We didn't have any problems. The girls all behaved fine. As you said, I brought a carry on with some toys and snacks to keep them occupied. None of my kids ever slapped/hit me. Consider yourself lucky. I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. I know that parents can't always control their childs tantrums however they certainly shouldn't give in to them - especially about something like sitting in your seat on an airplane on takeoff. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] I think that not only the kids habits are created in the early years but the parents habits too. My brother's parenting drives me crazy. I remember when the Bitch (a FOND nickname for the younger niece -I swear its fond) was a year and a half and any time anyone else would sing, she would say "NO NO" and throw a fit. Her parents response was to have everyone stop singing, including her four year old sister (how FAIR IS THAT?). My response was to sing louder and make everyone sing, because a one and half year old doesnt' get too dictate everyone elses behavior. It really bothered me how often they expected Dana (my older niece) to give in to the little one - she had to give up toys, she couldnt' sing, it was truly horrible. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:52:15 -0500 "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... snipped I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. Yeah, I'm thinking screaming is better than biting or pinching. Have you tried the *naughty* chair? Robin uses it A LOT ;-) with jake and the twins. Well, it's not alot per kid, but when three are involved, the naughty chair see's it's share of inhabitants. Does the little guy go to daycare or playschool? Was just wondering because I wondered how he interacted with the other kids. I was watching Robin referee a dispute between Jake and Zack yesterday. It ended with them each saying they were *sorry* and giving a hug. Of course it wasn't as quick and simple as I typed it out here, but that's the way it ended anyway, courtesy of Nanny 911. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know that parents can't always control their childs tantrums however they certainly shouldn't give in to them - especially about something like sitting in your seat on an airplane on takeoff. What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] I think that not only the kids habits are created in the early years but the parents habits too. My brother's parenting drives me crazy. I remember when the Bitch (a FOND nickname for the younger niece -I swear its fond) was a year and a half and any time anyone else would sing, she would say "NO NO" and throw a fit. Her parents response was to have everyone stop singing, including her four year old sister (how FAIR IS THAT?). My response was to sing louder and make everyone sing, because a one and half year old doesnt' get too dictate everyone elses behavior. It really bothered me how often they expected Dana (my older niece) to give in to the little one - she had to give up toys, she couldnt' sing, it was truly horrible. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? Absolutely nothing except by screaming and yelling they can get their own way, and as you said 'everybody' in the house falls in order beneath them. It's a shame the older girl is involved too. I mean, the little one is going to milk getting her own way against her sister. Not exactly *food* for growing a close bond between sisters, I'd guess. Is your brother older or younger than you? td - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:16:25 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message news:W4yth.680$ch1.222@bigfe9... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... snipped I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. Yeah, I'm thinking screaming is better than biting or pinching. Have you tried the *naughty* chair? Robin uses it A LOT ;-) with jake and the twins. Well, it's not alot per kid, but when three are involved, the naughty chair see's it's share of inhabitants. Does the little guy go to daycare or playschool? Was just wondering because I wondered how he interacted with the other kids. I was watching Robin referee a dispute between Jake and Zack yesterday. It ended with them each saying they were *sorry* and giving a hug. Of course it wasn't as quick and simple as I typed it out here, but that's the way it ended anyway, courtesy of Nanny 911. We do time outs, sure. They dont' magically extinguish temper tantrums though. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? Absolutely nothing except by screaming and yelling they can get their own way, and as you said 'everybody' in the house falls in order beneath them. It's a shame the older girl is involved too. I mean, the little one is going to milk getting her own way against her sister. Not exactly *food* for growing a close bond between sisters, I'd guess. Is your brother older or younger than you? My brothers older. He spoiled the hell out of me too. But my mother wouldnt' have allowed him to coddle my tantrums. My brother actually cuddles her and says "Ohhh, poor baby" when shes throwing a fit. Its horrible. The sisters are quite close, thank goodness. |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Greegor wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...8922ea390c63a2 Newsgroups: alt.true-crime Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:48:28 -0500 The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Presuming you are in accord with the poster Greg, but are too cowardly to present your stupid ignorant biases yourself, I'll answer to YOU, and of course invite you to argue 'your' position, or if you wish, clarify where you agree or not with the poster. Let's start with answering that last question. One: Spanking does not stop this kind of behavior from reoccurring. Thus the parents will have to look forward to, given the age of the child and her incapacity typical to three year olds to understand the circumstance, yet more spankings to control the child in such circumstances. Two: The presumption the child is deliberately inconveniencing the adults present is an error in thinking promulgated by inaccurate information about what a three year old is up to. Three: Any small child (or even older one, such as Greg or Doan and their current guest) will tend to, in new and unfamiliar situations, react inappropriately to the expectations of the adults who would prefer the child act as they would with each other. Oddly, adults DO have these very kinds of reaction in NEW unfamiliar situations. In fact this characteristic of "excitation" in humans, young and old, is exploited profitably by large and small enterprise. What would one think of people so overcome with inhibitory decorum as to not "ooo" and "ahhhh" at major tourist attractions, and not squeal with delight at the various "rides" and tours within a theme park, like Disneyland, for instance. The child was distracted by her surroundings. Much new to explore (to a three year old even the forth or fifth trip on a plane would be a wonderland to explore, and be both delighted with and anxious about. That's why we call them children and presume to protect and guide them. Four: The point was made that 'something should have been done.' The point apparently was missed that indeed something was. When you consider stories of aircraft sitting on the tarmac for five hours before being allowed to depart, I hardly think 15 minutes is a shocking abuse of power by a child. The article, Greg and and other arrested children in this newsgroup, is FUNNY. Parents and people in the vicinity of children are usually tolerant of and even accepting of children's limitations as they learn to accommodate to society at their normal pace. BEATING THEM INTO SUBMISSION TO FORMS OF BEHAVIOR THEY HAVE NOT PRACTICED, DO NOT UNDERSTAND, AND ARE CONTRARY TO THE NATURAL EXPLORATORY AND REACTIVE BEHAVIOR THAT IS PART OF AND IMPORTANT TO CHILDHOOD...is, to say the least, destructive of child and society. Such practices create the mentally ill, the addicted, and the criminal. The title shows the author's playing with your mind. And does so in the first sentence to the article. "Crying" equals "Temper?" Jim is, to say the least, being sloppy with language. But then that's journalistic license for you, and it does tend to hold your attention, children, with more exciting things happening than the real event likely produced. The article is screaming at you little inexperienced children, "TODDLER'S TEMPER TANTRUM CONTROLS A PLANE LOAD OF ADULTS," (and in small type, for fifteen minutes). You been had, my little duckies. R R R R R RR R R R Greg at his finest, of course, uses the users to pretend to maturity he lacks. The article, which likely few of you have read to the end, shows the airline doing exactly what parents should do with a child that is losing control (a vicious dangerous manipulative controlling power-monger of THREE....RRRRRRR) and simply remove the child from the situation. My own children learned early on that if they were reactive to a new situation that I would take them with me to a calmer more familiar place, say from a shoe store to our car, and sit patently with them while they calmed....they soon learned self calming...not because I punished, but because I helped them calm then returned to the new exciting place with them. This is how well behaved citizens are made. Whacking the is a near guarantee that they will become anxious and difficult in the next new experience. This, whacking, is how the ignorant, narcissistic, inverted, passive aggressive, or aggressive is made. We meet them in mental wards, drug and alcohol treatment centers, and prisons all the time. And sometimes in unregulated public forums where they do not have to directly account, usually, for their behaviors related to their ignorant, narcissistic, inverted, passive aggressive, or aggressive character let loose on others. Like being able to give dangerous advice, such as forcing the state to take one to TPR, and not having to take the loss if such a tactic fails and the children are lost. So, Greg. Didjah like my little segue? Want to guess who my hero was that I borrowed that model from? R R R RRR R RR R R RRR R RRRRRRRRRRR RR R Kane Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. "We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... From: "bessie" Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04:32 -0800 - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - tiny dancer wrote: The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. And AirTran and it's customers thank the idiot! From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:00 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Pick the kid up, stick her in the seat and HOLD HER THERE. For goodness sakes. From: lenona Date: 23 Jan 2007 12:28:26 -0800 And no one seems to have asked the parents: "Don't you think it was unfair to make her fly when she'd just had ear surgery and probably was starting to feel severe pain already?" Again, why should the passengers put up with that? Lenona. From: "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:45:27 +1100 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... If any passenger, for any reason, illness, whatever, delayed an air flight 15 minutes, the airline is likely justified in ejecting them. BUT. The article does not say the *child delayed the flight for 15 minutes. It simply says the flight was delayed 15 minutes. So when attendants walked thru and the kid wasn't in her seat then and the they threw them off the plane. That's the way I read it. The dad said they were not allowed ANY time to deal with their child. The article supports this. I don't think the airline would have given them free tickets otherwise. AirTran just wanted to keep to their flight schedule and not lose passengers (and $) connecting at the other end. [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:28:59 -0900 "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away wrote in message ... [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) Well, I'm pretty anti-spanking - I think there are better ways to discipline your child HOWEVER, unless this child was special needs, there is no reason a three year old should be throwing a tantrum. The only three year olds I have EVER met who still threw tantrums were my neice, who was coddled, comforted every time she threw a fit her entire toddlerdom (and shes four now and still throwing inappropriate tantrums) and my friends special needs child. The whole "we didn't have time to comfort her" leads me to believe that these parents are like my brother and his wife - loving, caring and wayyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive to their childs tears. I love my child and when hes hurt and crying I'm concerned. I'm even concerned when he's not hurt and crying, but he cant' always get his way because he's crying (way to reward ****ty behavior). In this particular case I would have picked my child up, put the child in the seat and said "Sorry you are angry hon, but you need to sit in your seat now. See mommy sits in her seat. Daddy sits in his seat. The nice lady over there sits in her seat" and then brought out a toy or book to distract. This child was three and still hitting her parents. They couldnt' extract her from under the seats. This must mean they were asking her to come out instead of getting her out. Bad parenting, imo. From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:02:19 -0500 "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "JonesieCat" Long Ago & Far Away wrote in message ... [I'm surprised you are pro-spanking in any case. There are plenty of children in the world who would shriek louder & longer than ever if somebody hit some part of their body, and with good reason. (I don't believe it is nec abusive in certain families, but is certainly used as an excuse by abusers in those other kinds of families. For that reason, those laws are good things, imho.)] jc (I hate it when good parents get bashed for being good parents, and when people jump on the bandwagon to join in the bashing) (*NOT* directed at you, td) Well, I'm pretty anti-spanking - I think there are better ways to discipline your child I use *spanking* for lack of a better term. I'm not against *popping* a hand or butt, depending upon the circumstances. Every child is different. Some toddlers respond to corrections, some respond to removing the child from the electrical outlets. Some are easily distracted. Some you can tell them NO NO, and remove them till hell freezes over and nothing seems to deter them. Of course these are all just my opinion. I remember when jake was just beginning to really get around. He continually went for my cords plugged into outlets. I told him NO NO, kept getting up and directing him in another direction, etc. Finally as he was reaching up to yank a cord for the hundreth time, I grabbed his fist and popped it. Said "grandma said NO, jake, no no. No touch. I had a really firm voice, my most severe *look*, I'm sure you are well acquainted with *the look* one uses. ;-] But that *popping* of the hand worked. In fact the next time I caught him going for a plug, I gave him 'the look' and said 'grandma said NO'. He started to reach his hand out towards the outlet, where upon I lifted my hand in an upwards motion, pre-popping if you will. Jake promptly stuck his hand behind his back so I couldn't pop it. He gave me this grin and that was the last time we had an 'outlet issue'. It was really funny, watching this 16 month old reason all this through. His face, expression, was priceless. I can't speak for all, only my experience with my own kids. Each one was quite different in what they responded to. I will say though, there was no *need* for any sort of *popping* by the time they were three years old. They had already learned what was acceptable and what wasn't, and that they were to listen to mom when she said something. The only time I recall dealing out a spanking was for running in the street. Not *toddler* running into the street. *Child* 'old enough to know better' running into the street. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HOWEVER, unless this child was special needs, there is no reason a three year old should be throwing a tantrum. The only three year olds I have EVER met who still threw tantrums were my neice, who was coddled, comforted every time she threw a fit her entire toddlerdom (and shes four now and still throwing inappropriate tantrums) and my friends special needs child. The whole "we didn't have time to comfort her" leads me to believe that these parents are like my brother and his wife - loving, caring and wayyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive to their childs tears. I love my child and when hes hurt and crying I'm concerned. I'm even concerned when he's not hurt and crying, but he cant' always get his way because he's crying (way to reward ****ty behavior). In this particular case I would have picked my child up, put the child in the seat and said "Sorry you are angry hon, but you need to sit in your seat now. See mommy sits in her seat. Daddy sits in his seat. The nice lady over there sits in her seat" and then brought out a toy or book to distract. This child was three and still hitting her parents. They couldnt' extract her from under the seats. This must mean they were asking her to come out instead of getting her out. Bad parenting, imo. I can think of little I hate worse than a kid throwing a tantrum. Luckily none of mine were tantrum throwers. I remember flying once with all three of mine, when the baby was only about six or eight weeks old, the other two were three and five. We didn't have any problems. The girls all behaved fine. As you said, I brought a carry on with some toys and snacks to keep them occupied. None of my kids ever slapped/hit me. What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] td - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:23:26 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... I can think of little I hate worse than a kid throwing a tantrum. Luckily none of mine were tantrum throwers. I remember flying once with all three of mine, when the baby was only about six or eight weeks old, the other two were three and five. We didn't have any problems. The girls all behaved fine. As you said, I brought a carry on with some toys and snacks to keep them occupied. None of my kids ever slapped/hit me. Consider yourself lucky. I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. I know that parents can't always control their childs tantrums however they certainly shouldn't give in to them - especially about something like sitting in your seat on an airplane on takeoff. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] I think that not only the kids habits are created in the early years but the parents habits too. My brother's parenting drives me crazy. I remember when the Bitch (a FOND nickname for the younger niece -I swear its fond) was a year and a half and any time anyone else would sing, she would say "NO NO" and throw a fit. Her parents response was to have everyone stop singing, including her four year old sister (how FAIR IS THAT?). My response was to sing louder and make everyone sing, because a one and half year old doesnt' get too dictate everyone elses behavior. It really bothered me how often they expected Dana (my older niece) to give in to the little one - she had to give up toys, she couldnt' sing, it was truly horrible. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? From: "tiny dancer" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:52:15 -0500 "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... snipped I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. Yeah, I'm thinking screaming is better than biting or pinching. Have you tried the *naughty* chair? Robin uses it A LOT ;-) with jake and the twins. Well, it's not alot per kid, but when three are involved, the naughty chair see's it's share of inhabitants. Does the little guy go to daycare or playschool? Was just wondering because I wondered how he interacted with the other kids. I was watching Robin referee a dispute between Jake and Zack yesterday. It ended with them each saying they were *sorry* and giving a hug. Of course it wasn't as quick and simple as I typed it out here, but that's the way it ended anyway, courtesy of Nanny 911. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know that parents can't always control their childs tantrums however they certainly shouldn't give in to them - especially about something like sitting in your seat on an airplane on takeoff. What do you think Beth? Don't you find the first two years to be the most important as to instilling what behaviors are acceptable and what aren't? I mean, at the time, things like this weren't on TV programs and such. When my kids were young, I mean. That was back in the olden days of only three TV channels, ABC, CBS, & if one was lucky NBC. But I truly don't recall having any major issues with the kids. They accompanied me nearly everywhere I went, as there weren't grandparents or aunts to leave 'em with. And I could take them anywhere and count on them to behave and not break anything. They even went to the dentist with me. They'd sit along the wall on the floor while I had my teeth worked on. My dentist enjoyed *chatting* with them. He thought they were a trip. He'd get them to tell him *family secrets* while mom had her mouth stuck open and couldn't tell 'em to be quiet. ;-] I think that not only the kids habits are created in the early years but the parents habits too. My brother's parenting drives me crazy. I remember when the Bitch (a FOND nickname for the younger niece -I swear its fond) was a year and a half and any time anyone else would sing, she would say "NO NO" and throw a fit. Her parents response was to have everyone stop singing, including her four year old sister (how FAIR IS THAT?). My response was to sing louder and make everyone sing, because a one and half year old doesnt' get too dictate everyone elses behavior. It really bothered me how often they expected Dana (my older niece) to give in to the little one - she had to give up toys, she couldnt' sing, it was truly horrible. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? Absolutely nothing except by screaming and yelling they can get their own way, and as you said 'everybody' in the house falls in order beneath them. It's a shame the older girl is involved too. I mean, the little one is going to milk getting her own way against her sister. Not exactly *food* for growing a close bond between sisters, I'd guess. Is your brother older or younger than you? td - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:16:25 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message news:W4yth.680$ch1.222@bigfe9... - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "Beth In Alaska" wrote in message ... snipped I've got a hella tantrumer/biter.pincher here. Its something we don't "allow" but still difficult to extinguish. With months consistency and by making it clear that tantrums don't get you your way, we've gotten them to be VERY short. However, I haven't really worked on extinguishing the tantrums, as I am using screaming or yelling as an alternative to biting or pinching. I'd much rather have my kid scream than bite someone who took away his toy. Yeah, I'm thinking screaming is better than biting or pinching. Have you tried the *naughty* chair? Robin uses it A LOT ;-) with jake and the twins. Well, it's not alot per kid, but when three are involved, the naughty chair see's it's share of inhabitants. Does the little guy go to daycare or playschool? Was just wondering because I wondered how he interacted with the other kids. I was watching Robin referee a dispute between Jake and Zack yesterday. It ended with them each saying they were *sorry* and giving a hug. Of course it wasn't as quick and simple as I typed it out here, but that's the way it ended anyway, courtesy of Nanny 911. We do time outs, sure. They dont' magically extinguish temper tantrums though. It just takes a little consistency and a little forethought about what you are teaching your kid. You give in when the kid screams NO about your singing, what have you taught them? Absolutely nothing except by screaming and yelling they can get their own way, and as you said 'everybody' in the house falls in order beneath them. It's a shame the older girl is involved too. I mean, the little one is going to milk getting her own way against her sister. Not exactly *food* for growing a close bond between sisters, I'd guess. Is your brother older or younger than you? My brothers older. He spoiled the hell out of me too. But my mother wouldnt' have allowed him to coddle my tantrums. My brother actually cuddles her and says "Ohhh, poor baby" when shes throwing a fit. Its horrible. The sisters are quite close, thank goodness. |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Any bets on whether these people believe in spanking Kane?
Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. "We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&.... From: "bessie" Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04:32 -0800 - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - tiny dancer wrote: The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. And AirTran and it's customers thank the idiot! From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:00 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message . .. The results a law that would forbid a... read more »- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Greegor wrote:
Any bets on whether these people believe in spanking Kane? Yes, they do. They just know better than to start whalin' on a kid in public, for simply being a normal kid. I make that assumption for two reasons. At three my children were already well socialized. My patience and very simple methods, mostly based on being patient and supportive as I learned from ANIMAL training, of all things, paid off. I learned early on that an anxious 1200 lb horse required my patience or I could get hurt. So could the horse. So with patience I taught horses a great many different skills. While I don't have to be fearful of 50 lb kid, I do about how the turn out then they are a 150 lb teenager, with the keys to the car and everywhere to go. If they learned controlled by me, that will take them just so far. For you see, I did not follow my teens everywhere. So they used what they had learned. .... self-control. Wake up and smell the coffee stupid. If you didn't learn not to hit when you were "training your cat to do dog tricks," my friend, then you are lying when you claimed it. And cats are about as intellectually developed as a 3 year old, maybe less. Go ahead, hit a cat to teach him to sit up and beg. Tell us how it goes, dummy. And be glad he'll never reach a hundred pounds and take you by the neck, shred your kidneys right out of your body and eat you while you are still alive, like a cat eats a gopher. Greg, do you honestly think our dangerous criminals from from families that don't use CP to "train" them? By the way, is your comment a formal invitation to debate this issue? Kane Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. "We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... From: "bessie" Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04:32 -0800 - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - tiny dancer wrote: The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. And AirTran and it's customers thank the idiot! From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:00 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... The results a law that would forbid a... read more »- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - |
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Greg. would love to hear your take on my training thoughts. Thanks,
0:- wrote:
Greegor wrote: Any bets on whether these people believe in spanking Kane? Yes, they do. They just know better than to start whalin' on a kid in public, for simply being a normal kid. I make that assumption for two reasons. At three my children were already well socialized. My patience and very simple methods, mostly based on being patient and supportive as I learned from ANIMAL training, of all things, paid off. I learned early on that an anxious 1200 lb horse required my patience or I could get hurt. So could the horse. So with patience I taught horses a great many different skills. While I don't have to be fearful of 50 lb kid, I do about how the turn out then they are a 150 lb teenager, with the keys to the car and everywhere to go. If they learned controlled by me, that will take them just so far. For you see, I did not follow my teens everywhere. So they used what they had learned. .... self-control. Wake up and smell the coffee stupid. If you didn't learn not to hit when you were "training your cat to do dog tricks," my friend, then you are lying when you claimed it. And cats are about as intellectually developed as a 3 year old, maybe less. Go ahead, hit a cat to teach him to sit up and beg. Tell us how it goes, dummy. And be glad he'll never reach a hundred pounds and take you by the neck, shred your kidneys right out of your body and eat you while you are still alive, like a cat eats a gopher. Greg, do you honestly think our dangerous criminals from from families that don't use CP to "train" them? By the way, is your comment a formal invitation to debate this issue? Kane Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. "We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. http://gatewaynet.netscape.compuserv...p?floc=NW_3-T&... From: "bessie" Date: 23 Jan 2007 11:04:32 -0800 - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - tiny dancer wrote: The results a law that would forbid a parent from *spanking/popping on the butt* whatever you want to call it, an unruly disruptive child in whom all other *methods* of discipline have failed. By the time a kid reaches three, they should have already been taught to *listen* to their parents. Especially in situations such as this one. 15 minutes is a long time to have to *reason with* a child who is throwing a tantrum IMO. And why should the other hundred plus passengers have to put up with this crap? Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane By JIM ELLIS ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff. AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff. ``The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,'' AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said. Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly. ``We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,'' Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday. The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied. She was removed because ``she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat'' during boarding, Graham-Weaver said. The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day. They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said. The father said his family would never fly AirTran again. And AirTran and it's customers thank the idiot! From: "Beth In Alaska" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:25:00 -0900 "tiny dancer" wrote in message ... The results a law that would forbid a... read more »- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Kane:
The footage in their home tends to indicate they are not spankers. |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Greegor wrote:
Kane: The footage in their home tends to indicate they are not spankers. If you can't contribute then shut your ****ing piehole, pimple face. Please post what you refer to, and stop the asinine games of forcing people to ask for things from you. Your passive aggressive nonsense has reached pathological proportions. Soon I will begin ignoring your bull**** manipulation and treat you to a full bore Kenneration. We all tire of your ****ing self absorbed little whiny "pay attention me" crap. We KNOW you are pimple on a dog's ass. You really don't need to continue demonstrating it. No won't Lisa wouldn't marry you until she sees the money ship dock. Probably a more manipulative PA than you are. 0:- |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Are you going to try "Where there's smoke there's fire" again Mister
15 investigations and 5 foundeds reversed? Why don't you accuse me of being IRISH mister O'Sullivan? On Jan 25, 1:42 am, "Dan Sullivan" wrote: On Jan 24, 8:06 pm, "Greegor" wrote: Kane: The footage in their home tends to indicate they are not spankers.The fact that your girlfriend lost custody of her daughter for SIX YEARS "tends to indicate" that the little girl was removed for far more than "vclutter." Parents incarcerated for manslaughter get released and get their kids back in less time. |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Greegor wrote:
Are you going to try "Where there's smoke there's fire" again Mister 15 investigations and 5 foundeds reversed? Why don't you accuse me of being IRISH mister O'Sullivan? Greg, it's not just smoke when an unrelated male sets up showering trysts with six year old girls by finding some excuse to punish her with cold water showers. She could have been left alone to clean up on her own. But she'd have used warm unless you were present. Fire enough for you? 0:-] On Jan 25, 1:42 am, "Dan Sullivan" wrote: On Jan 24, 8:06 pm, "Greegor" wrote: Kane: The footage in their home tends to indicate they are not spankers.The fact that your girlfriend lost custody of her daughter for SIX YEARS "tends to indicate" that the little girl was removed for far more than "vclutter." Parents incarcerated for manslaughter get released and get their kids back in less time. |
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Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane
Kane I'm surprised you're not arguing that
locking a kid in a seat with restraints is abusive! |
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