Homework over spring break (long)

On 2005-03-31, Robyn Kozierok wrote:
In article t,
Clisby wrote:

Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang wrote:

Like Sue mentioned, it's the appropriateness of subject and language as well
as reading ability. While a child *may* be able to read "Gone with the
Wind" or "Ender's Game" (to pick two random books) doesn't mean she *should*
read it.

I don't know - I wouldn't stop my 3rd grader from reading "Gone with the
Wind" if she had the stamina for it. (I've never read Ender's Game, so I
don't know about that.) I think I was in the 4th grade when I
recognized the existence of homosexuality, all because I had read a book
that belonged to my parents. Unless a book's out-and-out porn, I don't
think I'd stop my child from reading it.

Ender's Game is one that I'd let my 3rd grader read, but I wouldn't
have let him read it in first grade---too much death.

Well, there's a difference between stopping a child from reading a book
they choose to read, and offering that same book to them.

And while I wouldn't prevent an interested younger child from reading a
classic better suited to an older audience, I usually don't encourage
it either, mainly because many children (mine included) are unlikely to
re-read a book once they've read it once (unless they fall in love
with it) and so I don't necessarily want to encourage my kids to read a
book when they are too young/inexperienced to get out of it all I
think/hope they might eventually get out of it.

I originally though this way about several books, but my son routinely
reads books he likes 3 or 4 times (more than that for ones he loves),
so now I no longer worry about "spoiling it for later", just about
whether he would like it (at some level) now. There were some books
that we gave him too soon, and which he did not then finish. Some of
these he came back to on his own a couple of years later.


------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

Robyn Kozierok wrote:

In article t,
Clisby wrote:

Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang wrote:

Like Sue mentioned, it's the appropriateness of subject and language as well
as reading ability. While a child *may* be able to read "Gone with the
Wind" or "Ender's Game" (to pick two random books) doesn't mean she *should*
read it.


I don't know - I wouldn't stop my 3rd grader from reading "Gone with the
Wind" if she had the stamina for it. (I've never read Ender's Game, so I
don't know about that.) I think I was in the 4th grade when I
recognized the existence of homosexuality, all because I had read a book
that belonged to my parents. Unless a book's out-and-out porn, I don't
think I'd stop my child from reading it.


Well, there's a difference between stopping a child from reading a book
they choose to read, and offering that same book to them.

True - but I don't often *offer* books to my daughter, other than
mentioning what I liked at her age. She picks books from the school
library, the county library, the bookstore, our bookshelves, my parent's
bookshelves, yard sales ... she reads what she wants to read.


And while I wouldn't prevent an interested younger child from reading a
classic better suited to an older audience, I usually don't encourage
it either, mainly because many children (mine included) are unlikely to
re-read a book once they've read it once (unless they fall in love
with it) and so I don't necessarily want to encourage my kids to read a
book when they are too young/inexperienced to get out of it all I
think/hope they might eventually get out of it.

--Robyn


That wasn't my own experience as a reader, but I'm sure it could happen.
There are plenty of classics to go around, though.

Clisby

"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:52:27 EST, "Sue"
wrote:

"enigma" wrote in message
i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate reading.
if you can't even pick your own books, how are you going to
find your own interests? and how do they pick the books for
those lists? i was reading Arthur C. Clark in 2nd garde. being
forced to read something like Junie B. would have bored me to
tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there are some books
that are just not appropriate for little kids even if they are reading at
a
higher level. However, for the record, we don't have a required reading
list
at our school, they just want them to read.

Personally, I believe that if the child has the stamina and energy to
read a book, and can understand it, then its appropriate.

I suppose out and out porn and how to build a bomb might be
exceptions, cant think of much else.

My daughter (4th grade) likes to watch American Idol. Her favorite
is Anthony. Last week Anthony was in the bottom 3, though he
didn't get voted off. She *cried* about it. She said she couldn't
sleep. She wanted to know if she'd ever see him again. She was
completely distraught.

There are sexual scenes and situations that most adults don't
consider pornography that I still don't think would be appropriate
for my kids. There is also graphic violence that I don't think they
need to think about yet. But what I need to remember is how
much more sensitive children can be. How much more affected
by the things they are exposed to. I'd be much more wary of
something distressing than I would a homosexual reference. I'm
a bit worried about The Seeing Stone because there is a scene
where a pig is slaughtered. She hasn't gotten to that part yet,
but I'm a little worried that it will really upset her.

So I can't agree that any adult book is okay for kids.

Bizby

"Robyn Kozierok" wrote in message
...
In article t,
Clisby wrote:

Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang wrote:

Like Sue mentioned, it's the appropriateness of subject and language as
well
as reading ability. While a child *may* be able to read "Gone with the
Wind" or "Ender's Game" (to pick two random books) doesn't mean she
*should*
read it.

I don't know - I wouldn't stop my 3rd grader from reading "Gone with the
Wind" if she had the stamina for it. (I've never read Ender's Game, so I
don't know about that.) I think I was in the 4th grade when I
recognized the existence of homosexuality, all because I had read a book
that belonged to my parents. Unless a book's out-and-out porn, I don't
think I'd stop my child from reading it.

Well, there's a difference between stopping a child from reading a book
they choose to read, and offering that same book to them.

And while I wouldn't prevent an interested younger child from reading a
classic better suited to an older audience, I usually don't encourage
it either, mainly because many children (mine included) are unlikely to
re-read a book once they've read it once (unless they fall in love
with it) and so I don't necessarily want to encourage my kids to read a
book when they are too young/inexperienced to get out of it all I
think/hope they might eventually get out of it.

They might not re-read it right away, but they may eventually. I read
Lord of the Rings for the first time at about 13, and though it's supposedly
meant for that age group, I found it too involved and boring. So I read
it again when I was in college, again when I gave a set to my nephew,
and again when the movies came out. Just because they may not read
it again soon, doesn't mean they never will.

Bizby


--Robyn

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
. ..

"Sue" wrote in message
...
"enigma" wrote in message
i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate reading.
if you can't even pick your own books, how are you going to
find your own interests? and how do they pick the books for
those lists? i was reading Arthur C. Clark in 2nd garde. being
forced to read something like Junie B. would have bored me to
tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there are some books
that are just not appropriate for little kids even if they are reading at
a
higher level. However, for the record, we don't have a required reading
list
at our school, they just want them to read.

I love Junie B, and I'm way past 29....

I'm not crazy about it because it doesn't ring true with me. My kids
didn't talk or act that way at Junie B.'s age.

Bizby

--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Clisby" wrote in message
k.net...


Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang wrote:
"Sue" wrote in message
...

"enigma" wrote in message

i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate reading.
if you can't even pick your own books, how are you going to
find your own interests? and how do they pick the books for
those lists? i was reading Arthur C. Clark in 2nd garde. being
forced to read something like Junie B. would have bored me to
tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there are some books
that are just not appropriate for little kids even if they are reading at
a
higher level. However, for the record, we don't have a required reading
list
at our school, they just want them to read.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)




I always saw summer reading lists (for elementary school students) as
suggestions for the children to read over the summer. The lists DD's
school have are much too long for the children to read every book. Many
parents don't know what books are out there for children - I know I have
a tough time picking out appropriate books for DD. I have a good grasp
of picture books and young adult books but I'm less sure about young
reader (2-4 grades) books.

Like Sue mentioned, it's the appropriateness of subject and language as
well as reading ability. While a child *may* be able to read "Gone with
the Wind" or "Ender's Game" (to pick two random books) doesn't mean she
*should* read it.

Jeanne


I don't know - I wouldn't stop my 3rd grader from reading "Gone with the
Wind" if she had the stamina for it. (I've never read Ender's Game, so I
don't know about that.) I think I was in the 4th grade when I recognized
the existence of homosexuality, all because I had read a book that
belonged to my parents. Unless a book's out-and-out porn, I don't think
I'd stop my child from reading it.

Ender is a child who is taken away from his parents because they had
more children than allowed by law. He is taken to a training center
with other children, where they are trained in war games.

[SPOILER ALERT!]

He so consistently beats the computer that they start having him play
against a human trainer. In one almost impossible battle, he ends up
causing the complete annihilation of the enemy race (sci fi -- the enemies
aren't human). Only afterwards does he find out that the "games" were
real, and that he was directing real battles, and that he really did cause
complete genocide of the other race.

(or almost complete -- but that's another book)

Bizby

Clisby

"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:52:27 EST, "Sue"
wrote:

"enigma" wrote in message
i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate reading.
if you can't even pick your own books, how are you going to
find your own interests? and how do they pick the books for
those lists? i was reading Arthur C. Clark in 2nd garde. being
forced to read something like Junie B. would have bored me to
tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there are some books
that are just not appropriate for little kids even if they are reading at
a
higher level. However, for the record, we don't have a required reading
list
at our school, they just want them to read.

Personally, I believe that if the child has the stamina and energy to
read a book, and can understand it, then its appropriate.

I suppose out and out porn and how to build a bomb might be
exceptions, cant think of much else.

When I was a kid my parent's had a subscription to a series of condensed
versions of popular/classic adult books. To condense them they basically
took out the very racy and very violent scenes. It worked great for me, I
wonder if they still publish these, they were through readers digest.

I'm not crazy about it because it doesn't ring true with me. My kids
didn't talk or act that way at Junie B.'s age.

Bizby

My kids didn't act or talk like that either, but we found her to be a funny
kid *and* it got my daughter interested in reading.
--

Sue (mom to three girls)

Barbara Bomberger wrote in
:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:52:27 EST, "Sue"
wrote:

"enigma" wrote in message
i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate
reading. if you can't even pick your own books, how are
you going to find your own interests? and how do they
pick the books for those lists? i was reading Arthur C.
Clark in 2nd garde. being forced to read something like
Junie B. would have bored me to tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there
are some books that are just not appropriate for little
kids even if they are reading at a higher level. However,
for the record, we don't have a required reading list at
our school, they just want them to read.

Personally, I believe that if the child has the stamina and
energy to read a book, and can understand it, then its
appropriate.

I suppose out and out porn and how to build a bomb might be
exceptions, cant think of much else.

i didn't start reading the how to build a bomb books until
jr.high... fortunately my ethics makes it impossible to be
destructive to others, persons or property. there are skills i
won't be passing on to the next generation.
porn is just boring.

a quick survey of the closest bookshelves show a
preponderance of how-to books, but most of my sci-
fi/fantasy/philosophy books are packed up, or upstairs.
i do have enough books to stock a good children's library
though. i suppose one can have too many books, but it's pretty
difficult to reach oversaturation...
lee

In article ,
"Cathy Kearns" wrote:

"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:52:27 EST, "Sue"
wrote:

"enigma" wrote in message
i see reading lists as one more way to make kids hate reading.
if you can't even pick your own books, how are you going to
find your own interests? and how do they pick the books for
those lists? i was reading Arthur C. Clark in 2nd garde. being
forced to read something like Junie B. would have bored me to
tears...

That's you. My kids love Junie B. And not to mention there are some books
that are just not appropriate for little kids even if they are reading at
a
higher level. However, for the record, we don't have a required reading
list
at our school, they just want them to read.

Personally, I believe that if the child has the stamina and energy to
read a book, and can understand it, then its appropriate.

I suppose out and out porn and how to build a bomb might be
exceptions, cant think of much else.

When I was a kid my parent's had a subscription to a series of condensed
versions of popular/classic adult books. To condense them they basically
took out the very racy and very violent scenes. It worked great for me, I
wonder if they still publish these, they were through readers digest.


My Dad threw an encyclopedia salesman out of our house when he excitedly
pointed out that the set came with a set of "condensed" classics. He
figured anything we were capable of reading, we could read -- and we
should ALWAYS read classics in their full form. We were never
restricted from anything that was in the house, but I found that if I
picked up stuff that was over my head emotionally, I got bored with it
and stopped reading.

I can remember starting Grapes of Wrath several times before I could
read it through -- it wasn't until I understood that the chapter about
the turtle crossing the road was an allegory; not sure how old I was at
the time, but I know MANY people would have still considered it too racy
and/or violent for someone of my age, but my folks had read it and could
discuss it with me, and I had no problems with it, or any of the other
things I read. (In fact, Dad used to get me to read books by pointing
out that they'd been banned at one school or another . . .)
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care