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#11
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 4:16*am, Bee wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:18*pm, "Jan Drew" wrote: Institute of Psychiatry Does that mean that is where Mark S Probert belongs? Well, that would be a long way up for him if that were the case... That would be a long way up for those poor people who still think that MCS is a phyical disorder. Understanding that it is in their head is the first step to recovery. In your case, though, looking in your head is looking in the wrong end. |
#12
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 4:20 am, Mark Probert
wrote:Understanding that it is in their head is the first step to recovery. "this may explain the elevated levels of ALS seen in Gulf War veterans" I would say the studies show a .. **difference** . One Gulf War guy manifests ALS the other guy doesn't .. showing a propensity TO developement .. ? Source: University of California, San Diego Health Sciences Released: Fri 07-Mar-2008, 08:00 ET Embargo expired: Mon 10-Mar-2008, 17:00 ET Printer-friendly Version Health Problems in Persian Gulf War Veterans Higher Due to Chemical Exposure Libraries Medical News Keywords PESTICIDES, NERVE GAS, NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS Contact Information Available for logged-in reporters only Description A study by researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine shows there is increasing evidence that high rates of illness in Persian Gulf War Veterans can be explained, in part, by exposure to certain chemicals, including pesticides and nerve agents. Newswise -- A study by researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine shows there is increasing evidence that high rates of illness in Persian Gulf War Veterans can be explained, in part, by exposure to certain chemicals, including pesticides and nerve agents. Veterans from the 1990-91 conflict have a higher rate of chronic, multi-symptom health problems than either non-deployed personnel or those deployed elsewhere. Symptoms routinely reported by these veterans include fatigue, muscle or joint pain, memory problems, trouble sleeping, rash and breathing problems. "This evidence suggests that exposure to this certain class of chemical may be linked to elevated risk of health problems," said Beatrice Golomb, M.D., Ph.D., associate professor of medicine at the UC San Diego School of Medicine, whose study will be published in the early online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) the week of March 10. "Health issues among Gulf War veterans have been a concern for nearly two decades. Now, enough studies have been conducted, and results shared, to be able to say with considerable confidence that there is a link between chemical exposure and chronic, multi-symptom health problems," said Golomb. "Furthermore, the same chemicals affecting Gulf War veterans may be involved in similar cases of unexplained, multi-symptom health problems in the general population." The study synthesized evidence regarding a class of chemicals known as acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (AChEis) and organophosphates (OP), which includes nerve gas chemicals. Some military personnel were exposed to nerve gas (sarin) when demolishing Iraqi munitions. Also, the pesticides used aggressively in Gulf regions to control sand flies and other insects fall in the same category of chemicals. This includes the carbamate pyridostigmine bromide (PB) pills originally given to service members to protect against potential nerve-agent exposure. (Note: As a result of an earlier RAND corporation report by Golomb outlining the risks of using such pills, military policy has been changed.) The study linked exposure to each of these chemicals with the chronic, multi-symptom health problems in 25 to 33 percent of returning Gulf War veterans. "There is evidence that genetics have something to do with how a body handles exposure to these chemicals," said Golomb. "Some people are genetically less able to withstand these toxins and evidence shows that these individuals have higher chance of suffering the effects of exposure." Specifically, illness is linked to lower activity of enzymes that detoxify AChEis, due to genetic variants The enzymes known to be involved are paraoxonase (PON) for OPs, including sarin, and butyrylcholinesterase (BChE) for PB. Among those service members given PB pills as a preventive measure, those with the mutations that reduced their ability to detoxify the pills were at significantly higher risk of illness, according to Golomb. Previous studies have shown genetic variants of these enzymes are also associated with increased rates of some neurological diseases, such as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) or Lou Gehrig's disease. Golomb says this may explain the elevated levels of ALS seen in Gulf War veterans. Some of the chemicals linked to these multi-symptom illnesses continue to be used in agriculture, and at homes and offices for pest control in the United States and around the globe. Studies not related to the Gulf War showed that agricultural workers exposed to organophosphate pesticides had 10 times the number of health symptoms as those not exposed. "Again, genetic variants that hamper defense against these chemicals were linked to higher risk of health problems. These findings carry important implications for current members of the armed forces as well as the general public, suggesting that exposure to these pesticides in any setting may increase risk for impaired neuropsychological function and poor health" said Golomb. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (c) 2008 Newswise. All Rights Reserved. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Mar 12, 4:16 am, Bee wrote: On Mar 11, 11:18 pm, "Jan Drew" wrote: Institute of Psychiatry Does that mean that is where Mark S Probert belongs? Well, that would be a long way up for him if that were the case... That would be a long way up for those poor people who still think that MCS is a phyical disorder. Understanding that it is in their head is the first step to recovery. In your case, though, looking in your head is looking in the wrong end. |
#13
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 4:18*am, Mark Probert wrote:
It does exist, as a psychosomatic disorder. Are you a doctor that specializes in environmental medicine? Please state your personal experience with MCS. |
#14
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 4:20*am, Mark Probert wrote:
That would be a long way up for those poor people who still think that MCS is a phyical disorder. Understanding that it is in their head is the first step to recovery. In your case, though, looking in your head is looking in the wrong end. The day you tell me that you are a medical doctor specializing in Environmental Medicine, and have years of personal experience in diagnosing this syndrome then I might consider believing you. Until then, it is my ever so humble opinion, that your knowledge on this subject matter is zero. Just because you read books or studies on something, does not make you an authority. |
#15
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 11:36*am, Bee wrote:
On Mar 12, 4:18*am, Mark Probert wrote: It does exist, as a psychosomatic disorder. Are you a doctor that specializes in environmental medicine? Please state your personal experience with MCS. I have no personal experience with MCS, as I do not have a psychosomatic disorder. I also have no personal experience of jumping our of an airplane without a parachute. However, I can freely suggest that a person not try it. Of course, since I have no personal experience, please do NOT listen to me. (Does having a main chute not open and having to use a back-up chute count? Sure did raise my pulse.) |
#16
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 11:38*am, Bee wrote:
On Mar 12, 4:20*am, Mark Probert wrote: That would be a long way up for those poor people who still think that MCS is a phyical disorder. Understanding that it is in their head is the first step to recovery. In your case, though, looking in your head is looking in the wrong end. The day you tell me that you are a medical doctor specializing in Environmental Medicine, and have years of personal experience in diagnosing this syndrome then I might consider believing you. Until then, it is my ever so humble opinion, that your knowledge on this subject matter is zero. Just because you read books or studies on something, does not make you an authority. Incorrect. I would claim to be an expert in MCS if I were a certified psychiatrist with years of experience in treating psychosomatic disorders. BTW, as I have said before, a psychosomatic disorder is often more disabling than a physical one, an can be a hell of a lot harder to treat. |
#17
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 8:45*pm, Mark Probert wrote:
I have no personal experience with MCS, as I do not have a psychosomatic disorder. It sounds like your health is 100% in perfect order. Good for you. How about your buddies in Vietnam, though, the ones that were exposed to Agent Orange---do they not count? You know the ones that were spit on, and not welcomed home properly as they should have been. You know the guys/women and even civilians that served in Viet Nam. Do you not care about them, and their families? I also have no personal experience of jumping our of an airplane without a parachute. However, I can freely suggest that a person not try it. I do not have any personal experience of jumping out of an airplane without a parachute either. |
#18
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 12, 8:47*pm, Mark Probert wrote:
Bee: Just because you read books or studies on something, does not make you an authority. Incorrect. I would claim to be an expert in MCS if I were a certified psychiatrist with years of experience in treating psychosomatic disorders. And you would be an expert witness if you had years of experience, including personal experience as well, as an environmental doctor, or Toxicologist, with years of clinical setting experience. And no conflicts of interest, ofcourse as well, correct; not in bed with insurance companies, attorneys that defend insurance companies, chemical companies, big business. If, one is truly to be an expert witness on any given subject, it is my opinion, that they need to fully disclose what organizations that they are involved in, and just friendly they are with those corporations. BTW, as I have said before, a psychosomatic disorder is often more disabling than a physical one, an can be a hell of a lot harder to treat. By the way, I see the governor is "retiring." Tonight's news said the investigators, simply "followed the money." Was the money being laundered in your state being laundered with Tide, Cheer, or a Non Toxic Laundry soap? |
#19
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 13, 1:38*am, Bee wrote:
On Mar 12, 8:45*pm, Mark Probert wrote: I have no personal experience with MCS, as I do not have a psychosomatic disorder. * It sounds like your health is 100% in perfect order. *Good for you. How about your buddies in Vietnam, though, the ones that were exposed to Agent Orange---do they not count? They do not have MCS. They have chemical specific problems. *You know the ones that were spit on, and not welcomed home properly as they should have been. *You know the guys/women and even civilians that served in Viet Nam. *Do you not care about them, and their families? Certainly do. Giving them factual imformation about their real problems is so important. Telling them that they are chemically sensitive when they are not is not helping them in the slightest. I also have no personal experience of jumping our of an airplane without a parachute. However, I can freely suggest that a person not try it. I do not have any personal experience of jumping out of an airplane without a parachute either. Get some. You probably have no experience jumping. ' |
#20
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MCS Patients React To Chemicals Only When They Can Be Smelled
On Mar 13, 1:43*am, Bee wrote:
On Mar 12, 8:47*pm, Mark Probert wrote: Bee: *Just because you read books or studies on something, does not make you an authority. Incorrect. I would claim to be an expert in MCS if I were a certified psychiatrist with years of experience in treating psychosomatic disorders. And you would be an expert witness if you had years of experience, including personal experience as well, as an environmental doctor, or Toxicologist, with years of clinical setting experience. * Not to discuss a psychosomatic disorder. They would be ruled inadmissible under Daubert or Frye,. And no conflicts of interest, ofcourse as well, correct; not in bed with insurance companies, attorneys that defend insurance companies, chemical companies, big business. *If, one is truly to be an expert witness on any given subject, it is my opinion, that they need to fully disclose what organizations that they are involved in, and just friendly they are with those corporations. That is part of the voir dire and cross examination. BTW, as I have said before, a psychosomatic disorder is often more disabling than a physical one, an can be a hell of a lot harder to treat. By the way, I see the governor is "retiring." *Tonight's news said the investigators, simply "followed the money." * *Was the money being laundered in your state being laundered with Tide, Cheer, or a Non Toxic Laundry soap? |
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