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#1
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Spanking works....
.....and is claimed because the user doesn't know and try means of child
rearing. What else could they say? Hoever, there is no shortage of information on how to raise a child without frightening them: [[[ Interesting little flip-show on this page...something to think about. ]]] http://www.stopspanking.com/ |
#2
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Spanking works....
"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than physical punishment." It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict resolution"! ;-) Doan On 25 Oct 2005 wrote: ....and is claimed because the user doesn't know and try means of child rearing. What else could they say? Hoever, there is no shortage of information on how to raise a child without frightening them: [[[ Interesting little flip-show on this page...something to think about. ]]] http://www.stopspanking.com/ |
#3
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Spanking works....
Doan wrote: It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict resolution"! ;-) Better children through yelling. That is quite a national slogan born of frostbite on the brain. It really is going to be interesting to see how Sweden disengages itself from yet another venture into eugenics. Only a few decades ago, in its efforts to produce its own version of the master race, Sweden was a hotbed of forced sterilization. Now, it is better children through the grand social experiment of psychological smashmouth. |
#4
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Spanking works....
Opinions wrote: Doan wrote: It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict resolution"! ;-) Better children through yelling. That is quite a national slogan born of frostbite on the brain. So who recommends yelling? It really is going to be interesting to see how Sweden disengages itself from yet another venture into eugenics. How is not hitting children an eugenics program? Only a few decades ago, in its efforts to produce its own version of the master race, Sweden was a hotbed of forced sterilization. http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9901/26/sweden.sterilization/ That's 20 year old news, Opinions. You remind me a bit of "Observer." Any relation? Yes, it was a shocking revelation that a nation would resort to such things. It was not the first, and likely not the last in a world where beating children is considered a form of teaching. And of course the official end of such a practice as forced sterilization a great relief and indication of the real spirit of Sweden's government and people that they ended this in the 70's with full admission of their guilt and error, and made what redress they could. Interestingly though, in the late 90's, as you'll see if you read the article linked above, 80% remained happy with THEIR OWN DECISION. In other words only a tiny minority were coerced. The rest willingly signed agreements to be sterilized. " ... The commission noted that 5 to 10 years after their operations, nearly 80 percent of those sterilized said they were happy with their condition and did not regret it. ... " How long do you wish to hold a people to blame when they have rehabilitated? And how does their turnaround on eugenics sterilization in fact relate to the spanking issue? (The US had exactly the same thing from time to time in various states.) In fact outlawing CP in Sweden represented a turnaround from one of the most harsh and punitive of parenting methods in Europe...possibly the world. They beat their children as thoroughly as Germans once did. Harshly, and sometimes to death. We turned around OUR eugenics practices. Possibly the next step is an end to CP, by legal sanctions against it. Some states are already moving firmly in that direction. Now, it is better children through the grand social experiment of psychological smashmouth. Well, I'd venture you do not understand the statement made. It didn't say yelling was as GOOD as, or suggest it over NON-punitive methods, just that it was better than BEATING ONE'S CHILDREN. I read in it a clear message that it wasn't much better. You failed to see that I take it? Let me parse the statement for you, and see if in fact it said what you appear to insinuate...that yelling is a good choice, and now universally the parenting method of Swedish parents: " Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. ... [[[ Oh, "a variety." Do you surmise it to all be "yelling" based? ]]] .... The method most commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as well as children to express their anger in words. ... [[[ Note, this is ONLY on the subject of "anger." Parents, we presume, in Sweden as here and elsewhere in the world do a lot of interacting with their children to teach them that contain no anger at all. Fancy that. ]]] .... Parents insist that discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm hold of young children to engage their attention. ... [[[ Personally I don't care for such things, but occasionally a child has been so previously poorly parented that this may well be non-punitivly done. ]]] .... Parents and professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. ... [[[ Notice that it's "may" "escalate," inviting you, the reader to consider that it may also not so escalate. More often than not it does no. And yelling was very likely a part of CP style parenting as well. ]]] .... Still, many point out that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than physical punishment." The question there would be who is saying what. Do the people that 'point out' the humiliation factor, also point out that it is less humiliating than physical punishment, or as I read the comma placement, do the AUTHORS make that statement to make clear that it's less humiliating? All in all, it's clear to me this is no pean to screaming dancing monkey parenting methods. I have been particularly amused by the claim that child abuse in fact when UP in Sweden immediately after the law came into effect. No, what happened was that what was previously acceptable child discipline ... including leaving injuries now was seen as abuse. As of course it is. The risks to the child's health and life are considerable. So of course, as in all OTHER new laws criminalizing a previously acceptable behavior, like raping one's wife, or working children for exploitation, the cases seen in court are going to increase. People don't stop a behavior the instant a law is passed. The claim, of course, by the advocates and apologists for spanking is that Swedish parents were being prosecuted for "spanking." Examination of the cases shows they were prosecuted for doing what they used to with immunity....beating and injuring. Child abuse laws, though they existed were NOT being enforced because of a national culture of violence against children. The law worked. Currently THIS is the kind of garbage that passes for "righteous" discipline. An insistence on doing injury to the child otherwise the discipline might not be effective: http://www.geocities.com/eingedi.geo/the-belt.html And consider, if parents, as I've cited in another post, up to 45% or so, and grandparents up to 60% do NOT understand normal developmental limitations of children, how the people at the site above will NOT use spanking even according to their OWN standards. I love that piece, "deliberately disobey." Good old "willful disobedience" and applied to children under 6, who cannot possibly grasp cause and effect reasoning. Kane |
#5
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Spanking works....
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#6
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Spanking works....
Yelling at a child is one thing but sometimes a few swats on the bare
bottom gets the message acrossed. |
#7
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Spanking works....
DEBORAH wrote: Yelling at a child is one thing but sometimes a few swats on the bare bottom gets the message acrossed. What "one thing" is yelling? What message do a few swats get "acrossed?" [sic] Thanks, Kane |
#8
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Spanking works....
Just another example of the incredible intellect of those individuals
who need to hit children in order to get the message "accrossed." LaVonne wrote: DEBORAH wrote: Yelling at a child is one thing but sometimes a few swats on the bare bottom gets the message acrossed. What "one thing" is yelling? What message do a few swats get "acrossed?" [sic] Thanks, Kane |
#9
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Spanking works....
On 28 Oct 2005, DEBORAH wrote:
Yelling at a child is one thing but sometimes a few swats on the bare bottom gets the message acrossed. But anti-spanking zealotS recommend yelling over spanking. "Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than physical punishment." It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict resolution"! ;-) Doan |
#10
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Spanking works....
Deborah,
What message might a few swats on a bare bottom get "accrossed?" I know a great deal about research on parenting, on child development, and on the best parenting outcomes for children. I know nothing about swatting on a bare bottom to get any message "accrossed!" Care to enlighten us? LaVonne DEBORAH wrote: Yelling at a child is one thing but sometimes a few swats on the bare bottom gets the message acrossed. |
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