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TV choices and tweens



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 1st 04, 04:12 PM
beeswing
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Default TV choices and tweens

When is the age where you, as a parent, should start to give in and let the
child make her own media choices, TV in particular, whether or not you agree
with them (within reason)? I'm not suggesting letting The Kid watch "Debbie
Does Dallas," but we got into a major row this weekend over "Pokemon: The Movie
2000." I still dislike and disapprove of Pokemon, but I have gotta question
whether *that* was worth the energy, at her age (9).

Getting into the merits (or lack thereof) of Pokemon isn't what I'm after. It's
enough to say that I and her dad haven't been letting her watch it (and
similar, related programs) because of violence, on my part, and crass
commercialism and merchandizing, on both our parts. And there are other things
we haven't let her watch as well for other reasons, of course. So let's move
past the discussion of Pokemon specifically, if we can, and talk about at what
age you hand over the TV reins. (The same issue applies to books read, movies
attended, and bunches of other stuff.) When does the issue go from your first
priority, as a parent, being supervising your kid's media input and move over
to "choosing your battles" and keeping them to a minimum? And how far do you
budge? How do you know where to put the new lines in the sand -- and how do you
go about justifying those?

It doesn't help that there was a kid in her class at school rattling off a list
of movies and programs my kid has never seen. I don't want my kid to be a media
pariah, but on the other hand "everybody else gets to watch it" isn't a very
strong argument in my book.

Frankly, I'm feeling quite lost at being a mom of a growing tween.

Thanks.

beeswing

  #2  
Old June 1st 04, 05:12 PM
T68b
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Default TV choices and tweens

With my just turned 11yo I still monitor her viewing....and wont allow certain
shows on in the house(Pokemon is one of them btw)
I fully realize she is exposed to some of this at friends houses etc, but these
are house rules. In spite of much pleading etc from her brothers(just turned
5, and just turned 7)....certain shows are off limits. Period.
Now, the 17yo girl...that's pretty much a losing battle(or shall i say--pick
your battles!!!) She makes her own tv choices...but if in the same room as her
siblings, house rules win!
Hope that helps........I know it didnt really answer your question about new
lines in the sand...I go by gut feeling....and thus far have done ok with it!
Kathi

  #3  
Old June 1st 04, 05:13 PM
Scott
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Default TV choices and tweens

beeswing wrote:
When is the age where you, as a parent, should start to give in and let the
child make her own media choices, TV in particular, whether or not you agree
with them (within reason)? I'm not suggesting letting The Kid watch "Debbie
Does Dallas," but we got into a major row this weekend over "Pokemon: The Movie
2000." I still dislike and disapprove of Pokemon, but I have gotta question
whether *that* was worth the energy, at her age (9).

Getting into the merits (or lack thereof) of Pokemon isn't what I'm after. It's
enough to say that I and her dad haven't been letting her watch it (and
similar, related programs) because of violence, on my part, and crass
commercialism and merchandizing, on both our parts. And there are other things
we haven't let her watch as well for other reasons, of course. So let's move
past the discussion of Pokemon specifically, if we can, and talk about at what
age you hand over the TV reins. (The same issue applies to books read, movies
attended, and bunches of other stuff.) When does the issue go from your first
priority, as a parent, being supervising your kid's media input and move over
to "choosing your battles" and keeping them to a minimum? And how far do you
budge? How do you know where to put the new lines in the sand -- and how do you
go about justifying those?

It doesn't help that there was a kid in her class at school rattling off a list
of movies and programs my kid has never seen. I don't want my kid to be a media
pariah, but on the other hand "everybody else gets to watch it" isn't a very
strong argument in my book.

Frankly, I'm feeling quite lost at being a mom of a growing tween.


Join the club

DD, at almost 11, is way too much into American Idol, IMNSHO.
But she still watched a lot of it. That and the Simpsons
(which we watch together) is her television repertoire (it helps
that we don't get cable or good TV reception). It also helps
that the TV is in our (unfinished) basement -- a very
inconvenient place to watch. I think it really helps control
TV viewing if watching the TV is not the default activity.
If your kid says "I'm bored" and you say "watch some TV" --
well, that's hardly optimal in my book. (I usually say
"I wasn't put on this Earth to entertain you.") I would feel
comfortable handing over viewing reins to her now, almost;
I don't think she'll watch a lot, actually, and I can always
take the reins back. In fact, I could stipulate, handing over
the reins, that they may be removed if she abuses the
priviledge.

Most of DD's current lobbying efforts are to see PG-13 movies,
anyway. So far fruitless lobbying. She really wants/wanted
to see Mean Girls, the Lindsay Lohan movie, but she never did.
Maybe when it's on video. The raciest movie she's seen so
far, I think, is Victor/Victoria -- I FF'ed through Lesley
Warren's number, though.

As far as peer pressure goes, that toxic little classmate
of hers sounds like a piece of work. DD and I have talked
about people like that, and she knows I don't cotton to
doing things because other people are trying to make me
feel somehow lessened because of things I have or have
not done. I hope she's suitably innoculated against that
kind of thing. We'll see for sure next year in Middle School.

Scott DD 10.9 and DS 8.4

  #4  
Old June 2nd 04, 03:19 AM
Beth Kevles
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Default TV choices and tweens


Hi -

We let our kids (6 and 8) watch a limited amount of stuff that we (as
parents) rather dislike, like Pokemon. I handle it by biting the bullet
and sitting down to watch the junk WITH the kids, and we discuss it a
bit as we go (during pauses of the video, or commercial breaks if on
TV). We talk about the violence, the redeeming features, why the
redeeming features aren't really enough, why we're concerned about the
violence, and a lot about the commercialism.

No, I don't watch EVERY junk show with the kids. But enough to keep the
discussion going about what's good, what's not, and why.

That's how I'm dealing with this issue. I hope it works in the long
run!

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

  #5  
Old June 2nd 04, 04:35 AM
Rosalie B.
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Default TV choices and tweens

I don't remember making any restrictions on what my kids watched.
Basically they were too busy to watch much TV. Specifically, they
went to the barn after school to care for their horses, and came home
at dark and did their homework and went to bed. We got our first pony
when dd#1 was about 14. Before that they were at swim team which I
was coaching every afternoon, and most weekends were involved with
swim meets.

I myself watch very little in the way of movies or anything with
violence and high drama.

Thinking about what my grandkids watch or don't watch - I know that
dd#2 allows her son to watch pokemon and he collects or collected the
cards. He was allowed to watch in the morning before school if he got
up and dressed. That was when he was 8. I watched with him sometimes
and I didn't see anything particularly objectionable although I never
got into it. Now that he is 10, he seems to be not interested any
more. DD#2 allows her daughter, now 4, to watch stuff that I can't
handle, but she (granddaughter) seems perfectly fine with it. I mean
it doesn't give her nightmares or anything.

DD#3 does not allow her 3 yo to watch Sponge Bob, but dd#2's daughter
watched that when she was that age.

At present (leaving out my oldest two grandchildren who are 23 and 21)
the oldest grandchild I have is 11 and AFAIK this hasn't come up as
that family does not have cable or sat TV so it is only the local
channels that they get and that is not very good quality. They also
don't have access to the internet.


grandma Rosalie

  #6  
Old June 2nd 04, 05:13 AM
beeswing
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Posts: n/a
Default TV choices and tweens

Kathi wrote:

With my just turned 11yo I still monitor her viewing....and wont allow
certain
shows on in the house(Pokemon is one of them btw)
I fully realize she is exposed to some of this at friends houses etc, but
these
are house rules. In spite of much pleading etc from her brothers(just turned
5, and just turned 7)....certain shows are off limits. Period.
Now, the 17yo girl...that's pretty much a losing battle(or shall i say--pick
your battles!!!) She makes her own tv choices...but if in the same room as
her
siblings, house rules win!
Hope that helps........I know it didnt really answer your question about new
lines in the sand...I go by gut feeling....and thus far have done ok with it!


Actually, it helps a lot. It's nice to know there is an 11-year-old out there
who isn't watching Pokemon! To listen to my daughter, you'd think she was the
only one ever in the entire universe with parents that won't let her watch it
(cruel ogres that we are!). (She's seen it a few times at a friend's house, as
your daughter has, but that's about it.)

What age was your oldest girl when she took over making her own TV choices?

Thanks!

beeswing

  #7  
Old June 2nd 04, 05:13 AM
Nevermind
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Default TV choices and tweens

(beeswing) wrote
Getting into the merits (or lack thereof) of Pokemon isn't what I'm after. It's
enough to say that I and her dad haven't been letting her watch it (and
similar, related programs) because of violence, on my part, and crass
commercialism and merchandizing, on both our parts. And there are other things
we haven't let her watch as well for other reasons, of course. So let's move
past the discussion of Pokemon specifically, if we can, and talk about at what
age you hand over the TV reins. (The same issue applies to books read, movies
attended, and bunches of other stuff.)


I think you need to ask yourself what type of harm or negative
influence certain types of shows, books, musical recordings, and
movies are going to have on your child. Let that be your guide.

I also have a 9 YO, but one who I know from reading your posts on past
threads has a very different personality than your DD. We really have
to watch out for "forbidden fruit syndrome" around here, and my son
could manufacture an argument over pretty much anything, which has
meant that we take our censorship decisions very seriously. That is,
all censorship decisions *will* be challenged and then turned into
mini-obsessions on his part, so we cannot take them lightly.

As for violence, I take full responsibility for not letting him watch
anything that would be truly upsetting to him, so no cruelty (luckily,
he knows he can't handle stuff like that even without having ever
tried it, so no argument there!), no too-realistic violence, no
too-innocent and sympathetic victims (e.g., children and animals)
unless handled very carefully, and no situations that would be too
scary for him to remember later (e.g., he can't watch Jaws yet if for
no other reason than that it'll ruin the ocean for him for years, as
it did me). I wouldn't give a thought to something cartoon-y like
Pokemon on the basis of violence (I did have a problem with the
marketing insanity, though); he has even seen some PG-13 movies, none
of which upset him but probably all of which, I thought, went a bit
too far. However, all have been cartoon-y or "sci fi" violence (e.g.,
Hellboy, Spiderman, Jurassic Park, LOTR), as opposed to
"it-could-happen" human-on-human violence, which makes a difference,
to me.

I am not of the opinion that if kids watch some violent stuff, even
very violent stuff of the sort I would *not* let him watch, that it
will cause them to be violent. So, for violence, I just worry about
him being upset or having knowledge placed in his head that we all
wish we didn't have (the worst of what humans can do to each other).

As far as sex, he is not ready to watch anything explicit. He knows
the facts, but "just the facts," and I know from some of his questions
that he really has no idea what the sexual act involves beyond the
most basic aspect. That's good. I think he'd be highly weirded out if
he saw anything more suggestive at this point. I also don't want him
exposed to much in the way of sexist thinking about sex, and PG-13
movies are full of that. He knows about sexism and misogyny but I'd
prefer that he not see those attitudes portrayed as going along with
sex. I know we will have to discuss this with him at some point, but
I'd like him to remain a bit more innocent ("sex is a nice thing
between two equals") for now. Perhaps my higher standard for his
innocence regarding sex than violence is inconsistent; I can't really
explain that.

When does the issue go from your first
priority, as a parent, being supervising your kid's media input and move over
to "choosing your battles" and keeping them to a minimum?


We had to cross that line when he was about 5, due to our son's
personality. Sounds like your DD is pushing it right now.

And how far do you
budge? How do you know where to put the new lines in the sand -- and how do you
go about justifying those?


I tried to talk a bit about our justifications above. As far as where
to draw the line, I will say that it's probably never perfect, and the
more flexible you are, the less perfect it will be. I have made a few
glaring errors in our choices of movies for him. He was exposed to a
few things I wish he hadn't been. But we talked about these things
(all were sex-, not violence-related), and I feel that no harm was
done. I guess I believe that as long as they're kept away from really
upsetting experiences (and every child will find different things
really upsetting), you can turn some of these "oops" moments into
teaching moments.

I also think that as they get older, it's good for them to help place
the line for themselves. It's the kid's head after all. I think my son
is developing really good sense about what kind of stuff he should and
shouldn't (for his own sake) watch or otherwise be exposed to. He
couldn't do that if we were still 100% sheltering him. And I value
this for him. He is very artistic himself, and is always writing
songs, "scripts," and stories. I like him to be exposed to as much
variety in art and entertainment as possible without messin' him up.

  #8  
Old June 2nd 04, 06:10 AM
beeswing
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Default TV choices and tweens

Beth Kevles wrote:

We let our kids (6 and 8) watch a limited amount of stuff that we (as
parents) rather dislike, like Pokemon. I handle it by biting the bullet
and sitting down to watch the junk WITH the kids, and we discuss it a
bit as we go (during pauses of the video, or commercial breaks if on
TV). We talk about the violence, the redeeming features, why the
redeeming features aren't really enough, why we're concerned about the
violence, and a lot about the commercialism.

No, I don't watch EVERY junk show with the kids. But enough to keep the
discussion going about what's good, what's not, and why.

That's how I'm dealing with this issue. I hope it works in the long
run!


For me, it depends on how strongly I feel about the particular issue (violence,
for example) or the particular show. I won't watch violent shows myself, and I
don't want The Kid watching them. (Her father, on the other hand, likes to take
himself to movies where a lot of things unrealistically blow up. He enjoys that
sort of stuff.) I don't need to be watching the show with The Kid, when it's
something like "Pokemon," to explain to her what it is I don't like about it.

There are other things we've watched together that we do talk our way through.
If an otherwise *reasonably okay* movie (such as "Confessions of a Teen-Age
Drama Queen") has a drunk character in it, we'll talk about drinking and drunks
and why it's a Bad Idea to drink too much. So in some cases, that approach does
work us, but it wouldn't work for me with "Pokemon."

Thanks for responding!

beeswing


  #9  
Old June 2nd 04, 12:37 PM
beeswing
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Default TV choices and tweens

Scott wrote:

[beeswing wrote]
SNIPPED BY BEESWING
Frankly, I'm feeling quite lost at being a mom of a growing tween.


Join the club


I don't know how it is for you, but the answers seemed much more clear-cut when
The Kid was younger!


DD, at almost 11, is way too much into American Idol, IMNSHO.
But she still watched a lot of it. That and the Simpsons
(which we watch together) is her television repertoire (it helps
that we don't get cable or good TV reception). It also helps
that the TV is in our (unfinished) basement -- a very
inconvenient place to watch.


My daughter has several shows she watches, but she also spends a lot of time
reading, being outside, and doing other things. She'll choose reading,
especially, over TV.

I think it really helps control
TV viewing if watching the TV is not the default activity.
If your kid says "I'm bored" and you say "watch some TV" --
well, that's hardly optimal in my book.


I agree, and I've talked to my daughter about this. I was a communications
major back in college. We were taught a theory that stuck with me: that people
tend to watch the "LOP" -- the least objectionable program. They don't turn on
the TV to watch a specific, good show; they flip channels until they settle on
what is "least bad." I try to teach my daughter that if she wants to watch
something specifically, something that's she truly likes, that's one
thing...but if there's nothing good on or if what's on isn't something that she
deliberately would have chosen, the TV needs to be turned off.

(I usually say
"I wasn't put on this Earth to entertain you.") I would feel
comfortable handing over viewing reins to her now, almost;
I don't think she'll watch a lot, actually, and I can always
take the reins back. In fact, I could stipulate, handing over
the reins, that they may be removed if she abuses the
priviledge.


I've never set a limit on how much TV The Kid could watch, but I have talked
about how much is too much in general terms. I'm less worried about how much
time she would spend watching than *what* she it was she'd watch. Given her
druthers, we'd have an influx of "Pokemon," "Digimon," "Code Lyoke," "Sonic the
Hedgehog," and similar fare. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it
wouldn't exactly be material to build young minds and characters, either.

Most of DD's current lobbying efforts are to see PG-13 movies,
anyway. So far fruitless lobbying. She really wants/wanted
to see Mean Girls, the Lindsay Lohan movie, but she never did.
Maybe when it's on video. The raciest movie she's seen so
far, I think, is Victor/Victoria -- I FF'ed through Lesley
Warren's number, though.


I let my daughter successfully lobby for some things. For example, she wanted
to watch "Teen Titans." She argued her case, and then I watched the show with
her once. I decided it was silly but not objectionable, so I let her win that
one.

With the movies she wants to see, I *will* let her mount an argument, and I
will listen to it with a fairly open mind. I'm willing to consider allowing
myself to be convinced. But I also do my own research, and when it comes down
to it, it's still my decision to make.

If I remember right, there have been a very few PG-13 movies we have allowed
(wasn't one of the "Harry Potter" movies PG-13?). I use a few Internet sources
to figure out what was "PG-13" about the movie and if it's something I can live
with my kid seeing. And she gets Parently Guided...she's only been allowed to
see them accompanied by us.

As far as peer pressure goes, that toxic little classmate
of hers sounds like a piece of work. DD and I have talked
about people like that, and she knows I don't cotton to
doing things because other people are trying to make me
feel somehow lessened because of things I have or have
not done. I hope she's suitably innoculated against that
kind of thing. We'll see for sure next year in Middle School.


The Kid claims that she knows what peer pressure is and that it doesn't affect
her. It was pretty clear she was letting that particular kid get under her
skin, though. When she told me the story, I laughed a little and told her: "Ask
him a few back: 'Have you seen *Whale Rider*?' 'Have you seen *Bend It Like
Beckham*?" Getting into the spirit of it, she added "Have you seen
*Rabbit-Proof Fence*?" At that point, I had to admit that one-upping people
really wasn't a good thing to do...even if tempting sometimes.

Thanks for responding; it's good to hear other's tween experiences.

beeswing


  #10  
Old June 2nd 04, 01:23 PM
animzmirot
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Default TV choices and tweens


"beeswing" wrote in message
...


Actually, it helps a lot. It's nice to know there is an 11-year-old out

there
who isn't watching Pokemon!


I've got two 11 year olds that wouldn't be caught dead watching Pokemon. My
children were never allowed to watch it (I HATE anime), but they never
wanted to. I allow my kids to watch a lot of stuff other parents would
completely freak out over, because my kids are way more mature than most
kids, because they've never been scared of anything (and I mean anything),
and because they are so well versed on reality vs the media that it would be
silly to limit them on fear alone. I let me kids watch stuff that has much
more sexual content than some parents would, but much less violence than
othe parents would allow. The rule is our house is, you can buy a PG-13
movie if I approve, but not an R. If you HAVE to see an R rated movie, we'll
rent it or borrow it from the library, but that's one viewing only.

FWIW, my son's favorite show is smackdown, which he's not allowed to watch,
with a couple of other things he's also not allowed to watch. How does he
see them? Friends, m'dear. If you honestly think that middle school kids
aren't burning CDs for their friends off TIVO or off the net, you're
dreaming. You can't believe what I find by doing backpack searches. The
complete works of South Park (not allowed), for example. IOW, you can try as
hard as you can to control what tweens watch, but when it comes right down
to it, you either ditch the cable, which I did in January, or you choose
another battle. This one is just too darn hard to fight with all the media
access kids have these days.

Marjorie

To listen to my daughter, you'd think she was the
only one ever in the entire universe with parents that won't let her watch

it
(cruel ogres that we are!). (She's seen it a few times at a friend's

house, as
your daughter has, but that's about it.)

What age was your oldest girl when she took over making her own TV

choices?

Thanks!

beeswing



 




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