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lap belt question



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 12th 08, 08:21 PM posted to misc.kids
MarieD[_2_]
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Posts: 86
Default lap belt question

Is it safe for children out of a booster seat to use a lap-belt only? Dh had
to get a new car, and it's a 5-seater but the middle one in the back has
only a lap-belt. I have one child in a booster seat still, but would it be
safe for one of the other two to sit in the lap belt? They're 11 and 13,
both tall for their ages. I never really thought about it before, because my
van is all-shoulder belts and his old car didn't have lap belts, either.
Marie

  #2  
Old June 12th 08, 10:22 PM posted to misc.kids
xkatx
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Posts: 690
Default lap belt question


"MarieD" wrote in message ...
Is it safe for children out of a booster seat to use a lap-belt only? Dh
had to get a new car, and it's a 5-seater but the middle one in the back
has only a lap-belt. I have one child in a booster seat still, but would
it be safe for one of the other two to sit in the lap belt? They're 11 and
13, both tall for their ages. I never really thought about it before,
because my van is all-shoulder belts and his old car didn't have lap
belts, either.
Marie


It is if the child can sit properly in the seat - but this goes for any
seat.

The 'problem' with lap belts isn't the actual belt, for the most part. It's
the person sitting in it. Make sure they're sitting in the seat properly.
Their backs should be right against the seat, and bottoms should be right in
the bend of the seat. There should be no gaps between backs and the car's
seat. THIS can be a major safety concern, and actually goes for both lap
and shoulder belts.

In the event of a collision, shoulder belts are designed to lock in place.
If a person isn't sitting properly in the seat (with both back and butt
right against the seat) then when the shoulder belt locks, it locks only
where it *thinks* the person's body is. Should the seatbelt lock at the
wrong place, there then leaves that gap behind the person, which is how a
person can be ejected from the seat, even with the seatbelt on. This same
idea applies to a lap only belt, which are usually not the retractable type
but the type you manually size to fit properly on the lap. Same idea,
though, as far as fitting properly, and rather than locking, the lap belt
just stays where it is and with that gap, that's where, again, the belt
might not serve its purpose.

This is actually one of the biggest reasons children are supposed to stay in
booster seats after the car seats - to make sure they sit properly in the
seat. Most children will scoot their bottoms forward in the car's seat so
their knees can bend like they should over the edge. This will almost
surely leave that said gap behind them in the seat. The booster will bring
them up a bit (which also helps with the shoulder strap being at the proper
spot on a smaller child's body) and give them a place to properly bend their
knees as feels more comfortable and natural. (Try sitting in a seat where
the bend is half way down your calves and you have to keep your feet
straight out because they can't bend at the edge of a seat - not comfortable
at all!)
So, in short, I would say that there's nothing wrong with putting an 11 or
13 year old in the middle seat. Just, of course, assuming they can and will
sit properly in the seat, as far back against the seat as possible. By 11
or 13, they should be tall enough to bend their knees over the edge of the
seat without scooting their bum out from the back of the seat. I am also
willing to bet that the lap belt is far safer to sit in than say the trunk
where there's no belts at all If you have to do it, then you have to do
it. There's nothing wrong with it. I have 2 brothers, and my parents only
had a car when we were younger (or the truck) and all their vehicles seated
only 5. All their vehicles (even to this day) have the lap belt in the
middle seat. One of us was always in the middle, just because that's the
way it had to be. I see nothing wrong with it.


  #3  
Old June 13th 08, 02:40 AM posted to misc.kids
Beth Kevles
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Posts: 269
Default lap belt question


Hi --

I didn't realize you could get cars with only lap belts anymore (in any
seats). Lap belts are inherently less safe than shoulder + lap belts.
They don't restrain the upper body. This means that the upper body can
whip into things (like the front seat -- think an angled collision
rather than one directly head-on), and also that the upper body can whip
forward leading to a snap of the spine at the lap belt, and parapalegia.

I'd investigate to see if a shoulder restraint can be added to the car.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible for a fee.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.
  #4  
Old June 13th 08, 05:49 PM posted to misc.kids
Clisby[_2_]
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Posts: 75
Default lap belt question

Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

I didn't realize you could get cars with only lap belts anymore (in any
seats).


If you have a rear seat with 3 belts, how can all of them have a
shoulder+lap belt?

Clisby

Lap belts are inherently less safe than shoulder + lap belts.
They don't restrain the upper body. This means that the upper body can
whip into things (like the front seat -- think an angled collision
rather than one directly head-on), and also that the upper body can whip
forward leading to a snap of the spine at the lap belt, and parapalegia.

I'd investigate to see if a shoulder restraint can be added to the car.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible for a fee.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

  #5  
Old June 13th 08, 06:16 PM posted to misc.kids
Clisby[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default lap belt question

Stephanie wrote:
Clisby wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:
Hi --

I didn't realize you could get cars with only lap belts anymore (in
any seats).

If you have a rear seat with 3 belts, how can all of them have a
shoulder+lap belt?


The center shoulder belt comes down from the ceiling. Our Subaru has it.



Oh, OK. I've never seen that.

Clisby


Clisby

Lap belts are inherently less safe than shoulder + lap belts.
They don't restrain the upper body. This means that the upper body
can whip into things (like the front seat -- think an angled
collision
rather than one directly head-on), and also that the upper body can
whip forward leading to a snap of the spine at the lap belt, and
parapalegia.

I'd investigate to see if a shoulder restraint can be added to the
car.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible for a fee.

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the
milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be
construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical
practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you
would like me to reply.



  #6  
Old June 13th 08, 06:25 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default lap belt question

Clisby wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
Clisby wrote:


If you have a rear seat with 3 belts, how can all of them have a
shoulder+lap belt?


The center shoulder belt comes down from the ceiling. Our Subaru has it.


Oh, OK. I've never seen that.


Some of them just come over the top of the seat,
rather than from the ceiling. Seems like quite a few cars
have shoulder belts in all seating positions now.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #7  
Old June 13th 08, 06:27 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default lap belt question

Stephanie wrote:
MarieD wrote:
Is it safe for children out of a booster seat to use a lap-belt only?
Dh had to get a new car, and it's a 5-seater but the middle one in
the back has only a lap-belt. I have one child in a booster seat
still, but would it be safe for one of the other two to sit in the
lap belt? They're 11 and 13, both tall for their ages. I never really
thought about it before, because my van is all-shoulder belts and his
old car didn't have lap belts, either. Marie



According to my car seat tech friend, an unequivocable NO. She said
something about disembowling kids. I did not ask for the physics behind
that.


It's pretty much the risk of "submarining" (sliding
under the lap belt due to improper positioning) or the risk
of no upper body restraint and allowing the abdomen to
absorb all the impact from the crash (not to mention allowing
the upper body to move all over). That's part of why you're
supposed to wear a lap belt very low, but very few folks do
that (and it's really tough to get a lap belt to fit properly).

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #8  
Old June 13th 08, 06:34 PM posted to misc.kids
Clisby[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default lap belt question

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Clisby wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
Clisby wrote:


If you have a rear seat with 3 belts, how can all of them have a
shoulder+lap belt?

The center shoulder belt comes down from the ceiling. Our Subaru has it.


Oh, OK. I've never seen that.


Some of them just come over the top of the seat,
rather than from the ceiling. Seems like quite a few cars
have shoulder belts in all seating positions now.


Could be. We have 2 cars, a 1995 and a 2004, and neither has it.

Clisby

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #9  
Old June 13th 08, 07:15 PM posted to misc.kids
Nikki
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Posts: 486
Default lap belt question

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Some of them just come over the top of the seat,
rather than from the ceiling. Seems like quite a few cars
have shoulder belts in all seating positions now.

Best wishes,
Ericka


That is how mine is.

The front middle seat is just a lap belt though.
  #10  
Old June 13th 08, 08:33 PM posted to misc.kids
toypup[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default lap belt question



"Clisby" wrote in message
m...
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Clisby wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
Clisby wrote:


If you have a rear seat with 3 belts, how can all of them have a
shoulder+lap belt?

The center shoulder belt comes down from the ceiling. Our Subaru has
it.

Oh, OK. I've never seen that.


Some of them just come over the top of the seat,
rather than from the ceiling. Seems like quite a few cars
have shoulder belts in all seating positions now.


Could be. We have 2 cars, a 1995 and a 2004, and neither has it.


The 2004 car surprises me. Both of our cars have shoulder belts for middle
seats.

 




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