allergy to mother milk

check the vitamin - my DD is VERY sensitive to the vitamin I used to
take take... not bloody stool sensitive, but green mucosy stools, heavy
volume of spit up, fussiness... take away vitamin and eat my already
scaled back diet, and she's much better.

I figure it is one of the fillers.

Brookben,

can you tell me something more about your diet, i.e. what kind of food
you were avoiding?

thx
Milan

Milan.

First, describe the "bloody" stools. What color is the blood, exactly?
Is the stool all the same color, or are there clumps of blood, or
streaks, or just a coating of it on the outside?

Second, the problem might not be dietary. In just 3 weeks you switched
the baby from breastmilk to 3 different formulas. So the baby probably
did not get either of the first two formulas long enough for you to see
a difference. How long after starting the 3rd formula did the problem
stop? Also, the problem ("bloody" stools, abdominal tenderness,
fussiness) continued more than two weeks after stopping all breastmilk,
so probably breastmilk never was the problem. And it probably isn't
anything in your wife's diet either. The problem could be a bacterial
or viral infection, which has now resolved itself. In which case, the
baby would have been better off all along staying on breastmilk and
would be better off now going back on breastmilk.

Re the doctor's comment that the baby maybe cannot digest any proteins,
that's not an allergy. It is also very unlikely. I would be looking
for a new doctor.


The only reason to think something in your wife's diet may be a problem
is this:

As soon as she tries to breatfeed him he gets all symptoms back instantly.

Instantly meaning what: minutes, hours, a day?

Definitely stop the multivitamins. At once! They are a prime suspect
when it comes to dietary allergies, not because of the vitamins
themselves but because of the binding agents and coatings. Also,
please post the list of ingredients on the rye bread, exactly as it
appears on the package.

Do you purchase all the vegetables fresh? Are the lentils and grains
purchased dry? What about spices? Does your wife use no spices
whatsoever? Does she drink anything except water? Where does the
water come from?

The 3 formulas you tried: were they all pre-mixed liquids, ready to
feed, or dry? If dry, where did you get the water that you added to
make up the formula? If pre-mixed, did you add any water?

wrote:

writes:
: Hi Anita:

: red and green lentils
: whole wheat rice
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: olive oil
: salt
: vegetables: celery, potato, yam, carrot
: materna multivitamin pill
: barley
: rye bread yeast free

: I think this is everything. If we remember something else will post it.

: no juices, no soy, no dairy product, no margarine.

: Milan

Now, look at the ingredients list on all of these. Especially the rye
bread. It could contain wheat, which is a common problem.

Note also the whole wheat rice above...

I concur with other people who are saying
check the ingredients in the rye bread and
also stop the multivitamin.

-- Anita --

Hi Pologirl,

It's Milan's wife Maya replying. Thanks for your questions and ideas
what to pay attention to.

Pologirl wrote:
Milan.

First, describe the "bloody" stools. What color is the blood, exactly?
Is the stool all the same color, or are there clumps of blood, or
streaks, or just a coating of it on the outside?

It's small streaks or tiny dots as if it was made with a pen. Bright
red color. Sometimes it's mixed with the mucus in which case it is
disolved in the mucus. It's usually a very tiny amount.

Second, the problem might not be dietary. In just 3 weeks you switched
the baby from breastmilk to 3 different formulas. So the baby probably
did not get either of the first two formulas long enough for you to see a difference.

We switched between the formulas because we were seeing the reaction
really quickly. Most dramatic was the one from Alimentum, when there
were many streaks of blood, more than we have ever seen before either
with the breast milk or Nutramigen.

How long after starting the 3rd formula did the problem stop?

We stopped seing new streaks of blood pretty much immediately after
starting Neocate. However, there was still some mucus with a little bit
of blood from time to time. In fact, it might be that there still is
some (after 5-6 days).

Also, the problem ("bloody" stools, abdominal tenderness,
fussiness) continued more than two weeks after stopping all breastmilk,
so probably breastmilk never was the problem.

The blood streaks were the same only until switching to Neocate. We
concluded he is allergic to Nutramigen and Alimentum as they also have
proteins (even if they are hydrolized).

And it probably isn't
anything in your wife's diet either. The problem could be a bacterial
or viral infection, which has now resolved itself. In which case, the
baby would have been better off all along staying on breastmilk and
would be better off now going back on breastmilk.

No, unfortunately it most likely wasn't that. The problem still hasn't
resolved either. We tried to give him milk on 2 occasions and there was
immediate reaction. Watery stool with dots and/or streaks of blood.

Re the doctor's comment that the baby maybe cannot digest any proteins,
that's not an allergy. It is also very unlikely. I would be looking
for a new doctor.

Actually th doctor didn't suggest that, he suggested it's some
proteins, not necessarily all.


The only reason to think something in your wife's diet may be a problem
is this:

As soon as she tries to breatfeed him he gets all symptoms back instantly.

Instantly meaning what: minutes, hours, a day?

cramps and fussiness in minutes, bloody stools in 2-4h.

Definitely stop the multivitamins. At once! They are a prime suspect
when it comes to dietary allergies, not because of the vitamins
themselves but because of the binding agents and coatings. Also,
please post the list of ingredients on the rye bread, exactly as it
appears on the package.

Done. thanks for the tip.

Do you purchase all the vegetables fresh? Are the lentils and grains
purchased dry? What about spices? Does your wife use no spices
whatsoever? Does she drink anything except water? Where does the
water come from?

no spices. fresh vegetables. dry lentils and grains.
I drink apple juice (apples only, no preservatives).
I drink reverse-osmosis purified water.
I was also taking some acidophilus.

The 3 formulas you tried: were they all pre-mixed liquids, ready to
feed, or dry? If dry, where did you get the water that you added to
make up the formula? If pre-mixed, did you add any water?

Nutramigen and Neocate were dry. Alimentum was premixed.
We add "Auafina" purified bottled water, which also has ozone.

Anybody knows anything about allergy or intolerance to sugars that can
cause bloody diarhea?

There is a new development we have just had today. We tried giving the
baby 2 spoons of water with sugar and the next stool had a little bit
of blood, even though it usually doesn't since he is on Neocate
formula. We did this to test whether sugars (in milk and in the
formulas) could be causing the problems, as opposed to or in addition
to the proteins.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Anybody knows anything about allergy or intolerance to sugars that can
cause bloody diarhea?

There is a new development we have just had today. We tried giving the
baby 2 spoons of water with sugar and the next stool had a little bit
of blood, even though it usually doesn't since he is on Neocate
formula. We did this to test whether sugars (in milk and in the
formulas) could be causing the problems, as opposed to or in addition
to the proteins.

Hi there,

I'm actually thinking some kind of medical problem is much more likely than
some kind of food intolerance, at this stage I'd be asking the doctor to
refer to a specialist. If the doctor is saying he can't digest some
proteins, you need to know which ones and why. Intolerance and allergy is
not the same as being unable to digest something.

Cheers

Anne

This is current thinking on the subject of bloody stools.Bloody stools
usually start with oversupply or OMER. The lowfat content of foremilk is
what causes it to make such a rapid transit through the intestines. At that
point the lactose which didn't digest further upferments in the lower
intestine with gobs of bacteria. This is when the gut becomes friable and
the bloody stools occur. So even ifmom doesn't have oversupply or OMER now,
she may have at some point. Once the gut becomes damaged, that's when the
foreign food proteins have a big open door to walk through. I guess what
I'm trying to say is that "lactose overload" doesn'tseem to occur in it's
own right but rather as a result of something else. Same goes for bloody
stools. It is also my understanding that when using hypoallergenic
formula (exclusively) for these babies there's a good chancethat the bloody
stools may come back. Once the gut is already damaged in this fashion, they
tend to do well for a coupleof weeks and then the blood comes back once
mom's production is already shot to hell. Breastfeeding management
androtation diet seems to work better than the formula for many moms and
babies. Someone else already mentioned digestive enzymes. The BAB
suggests using pancrease MT4 (two with each meal and onewith each snack) in
order to break down the mom's food more thoroughly. Having the mom take
some vitamin E and using vegetable oils in cooking can also help increase
transfer of Vit. E to the baby in order to promote gut healing on his end.
Using probiotics and fish oil for nursing moms with highly allergic
children also seems to reduce the effects. Managing the oversupply,
starting a rotation diet, and using the vitamin Eseemed to be the end of it.

wrote:
Anybody knows anything about allergy or intolerance to sugars that can
cause bloody diarhea?

There is a new development we have just had today. We tried giving the
baby 2 spoons of water with sugar and the next stool had a little bit
of blood, even though it usually doesn't since he is on Neocate
formula. We did this to test whether sugars (in milk and in the
formulas) could be causing the problems, as opposed to or in addition
to the proteins.

Given what you said about the diapers, I'm inclined to think that the
baby might have an anal fissure. Has a doctor evaluated this? I had
one after I gave birth, and it caused bright red streaks on my stool.
If the baby was constipated at one point, or if there was a problem
passing the meconium, he could have one too. Does she fuss when she's
having a movement? Anal fissures are very, very painful. I'd rather
give birth again than have another one.

I also agree that you're going too fast - 3 formulas in 3 weeks hasn't
given her any time to adjust to any of them. I think you need to dial
it back. I know that's hard when the baby's in pain, but it's like
you've got bronchitis and the doctor gave you penicillin, but you
didn't feel better the next day, so you went back for amoxicillin, and
that didn't work right away, so you went back for biaxin... See what I
mean? You should give them more time.

As for the sugar water, who told you to do that? Sugar water is the
cure (in this house, anyway) for constipation. So, it makes sense that
it would've caused diarrhea.

It is vanishingly rare that a baby could be truly allergic to his
mother's milk. If you haven't totally screwed up your supply by now,
my suggestion would be to go back to breastfeeding. Formula is very
difficult for babies to digest, especially very new babies. If that
means Mom has to start on a diet of only plain white rice and water,
and wait seven days (give him time to heal) to see how he's doing on
that before adding something (I'd go with chicken or turkey, at that
point, for the protein), wait three days to see how he's doing with
that before adding something else, etc. then maybe that's the best way.
It would be miserable to be on that sort of diet, but it's more
miserable to have a screaming, unhappy baby.

But before you jump through those hoops, I'd have her physically
checked for any problems with his rectum. If the blood is bright red,
it's new, so it's happening relatively close to the exit, right?

Does she have diaper rash?

Amy

I would say in my uneducated guess that the lentils and various vegetables
that your wife is eating is causing gas and an upset tummy for the child.
Beans are definite gas producers and vegetables like broccoli and
cauliflower are also gas producers. It may be upsetting your baby's tummy.
Is there a reason your wife is limiting her foods in this manner?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Any advise is welcome, we are out of ideas what to do or to try.

Three weeks ago our (now 6 weeks old) baby started having bloody
stools. He was very fuzzy and restless with pains in his tummy. Stools
were mucusy and liquid,

When we switched to Nutramigen (hipoalergenic formula) everything was
same except that stools were firm, which is common, but they still were
bloody and he had reactions (fuzzines and pain). Alimentum
(hipoalergenic formula) made things even worse. Now he is on Neocate
(hipoalergenic and very expensive formula), and his problems are gone.
Neocate doesn't have complex proteins, it only has amino-acids.My wife
diet is only rice, lentils and some vegetables. As soon as she tries to
breatfeed him he gets all symptoms back instantly. Doctor thinks that
baby can't digest proteins.

Does anybody have any similar experience or know of the similar case?

regards
Milan