vegans sentenced for baby death

I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't
anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the
time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of
their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The
only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their
babies.

in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and because
newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing, it's only
after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to health, a
newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly becoming more and
more jaundiced and underweight.

Anne

"Amethyst Deceiver" wrote in message
...
wrote:

In this case you do have to question why this baby was let down by the
social sevices. it should have been taken into care Looong before it
got to 3lbs surely?

Social services didn't know about the baby. The family didn't use medical
services during pregnancy or after.

I don't see how that matters.
Is there not any type of civilization where these people lived? Do they not
have friends. Family. Neighbours. Grocery store trips. Whatever.
Here, anyways, child protection/social services works at all angles. If any
random person sees something, that helps social services. I can't believe
that NO ONE would have ever seen this baby at all.
In all honesty, I'm one to, on occasion, comment on a baby and ask how old
or whatever. If I saw a baby THAT small (never actually seen a 3lb baby
with my own eyes, just pictures or whatever) but if I did see one that
small, I'd definitely ask how old the baby was and it would definitely come
across with warning bells of some sort. They don't even let babies out of
the hospital unless they are at least 5lbs (which, IIRC, is because infant
car seats do not go lower than 5lbs for minimum weight) I'd be calling
social services right away. If it meant I had to follow them, take a
license plate and description of the car down, follow a bus or whatever, I'd
do it. If my neighbour walked out of their house with what looks like an
extremely sickly baby no more than 3lbs, I do believe I would speak up for
the safety of that child. I find it hard to believe that these people lived
so isolated that NO ONE saw or heard a thing.

--
YoungBloke: 3 years, 92cm, 13kg and still BF

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..

I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't
anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the
time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of
their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The
only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their
babies.

in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and because
newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing, it's only
after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to health, a
newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly becoming more
and more jaundiced and underweight.

Anne

For me, when I think of a "normal, happy, healthy" baby, I don't think of
one that is extremely underweight.
Even when I was extremely young and with my first, I knew the difference
between weight gain and weight loss. Even common sense would tell me that
something is not alright if my newborn fit into certain clothes at the
beginning, then even those clothes got far too BIG as time went on. Common
sense tells me that babies would grow and gain weight, not shrivel up and
loose extreme amounts of weight.

I don't honestly understand how they didn't understand there wasn't
anything wrong with their baby. It had to have been crying all the
time, unhappy, losing weight. Maybe they considered pot to be part of
their vegan regime. Christ. Some don't deserve to have children. The
only thing that makes me homicidally ****ed is people who kill their
babies.

in very young babies they can become sleepy and appear content and
because newborn babies are supposed to be sleepy it can be confusing,
it's only after about 6-8 weeks that the happy, sleeping well applies to
health, a newborn can appear happy and sleeping well, but be slowly
becoming more and more jaundiced and underweight.

For me, when I think of a "normal, happy, healthy" baby, I don't think of
one that is extremely underweight.

no, and I do suspect that there was some kind of knowing abusing going on
here rather than complete ignorance, but on the off chance it was complete
ignorance, the behaviour of this baby could have been very unobtrusive and
not altering it's parents or other people to it's desparate need.

I wonder if there was some kind of complete denial of this going on, they
say it was homebirth, usually homebirthers are very motivated, which doesn't
ring with how they treated the baby, if for some reason they had some
perverse against breastfeeding stance, they likely would have bought the
best quality non dairy formula, instead, I wonder if they homebirthed and
shunned antenatal care because they were denying it was happening, then the
birth was straight forward, so no dash to the emergency room, then the baby
was fed with what was in the house, which as vegans would be the regular soy
milk, then they didn't notice any problems simply because they were somehow
blind to it. I wonder what a psychiatric assessment would say, it doesn't
quite ring true as straightforward abuse, I mean, I think the birth that
goes with that would be the one that would be most comfortable for mum,
probably with a lot of drugs.

Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:
I wonder what a psychiatric assessment would say, it doesn't quite ring
true as straightforward abuse, I mean, I think the birth that goes with
that would be the one that would be most comfortable for mum, probably with
a lot of drugs.

There is the opposite end of the spectrum, though. I have heard a
first-hand account (i.e. from the mother) of a homebirth midwife who was so
distrustful of the medical community that the midwife told her assistant and
the grandmother NOT to call 911 during labor when there were clear signs of
distress. The baby was born not breathing, floppy, and dark purple. The
grandmother of the baby went against the midwife's wishes and called an
ambulance after she saw the condition of the baby when she was born.

Once everyone was at the hospital, the doctor would come out periodically
and give a report on the baby's condition, and the midwife would basically
dismiss it as "nonsense" or "he's just trying to scare you, that's how
doctor's are." If left up to the midwife, the baby would have died at home
without ever seeing a doctor, and the midwife thought she was doing the
right thing by keeping her away from the "evil medical establishment".

I can definitely see where a person who is homebirthing is doing so because
they don't trust the medical community, and where they would think that any
medical treatment would be dangerous or inferior to a natural, holistic,
organic, vegan, etc, etc treatment at home. Yes, it would probably have to
get to the point of pathological denial once your baby weighs 3 lbs, but I'm
pretty sure that neglect of that kind is the same as abuse (at least legally
in the US).

Jodi

On May 11, 12:14�am, "xkatx" wrote:


That's disgusting. *Apple juice, first off, to a newborn?!?!? *I honestly
don't know if this is the norm in other places, but quite frankly, juice
here is NOT part of a newborn's diet.
They didn't know he was in danger until minutes before the baby was dead?
Give me a break. *Even a premature baby born doesn't leave the hospital at
that weight! *Here, small babies are let out of the hospital when they hit
the 5lb mark (and assuming everything else is good and there's no other
concerns) so how the hell could anyone think that 3lbs is alright?? *

I totally agree with you in general, but actually weight is not the
primary consideration when figuring out whether a premature baby is
healthy enough to go home. Plenty do go home under five pounds -- my
nephew was some incredibly small weight, I no longer remember how
small, but definitely under four pounds. But that's not really
relevant to this case at all.

--Helen

" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 11, 12:14?am, "xkatx" wrote:


That's disgusting. Apple juice, first off, to a newborn?!?!? I honestly
don't know if this is the norm in other places, but quite frankly, juice
here is NOT part of a newborn's diet.
They didn't know he was in danger until minutes before the baby was dead?
Give me a break. Even a premature baby born doesn't leave the hospital at
that weight! Here, small babies are let out of the hospital when they hit
the 5lb mark (and assuming everything else is good and there's no other
concerns) so how the hell could anyone think that 3lbs is alright??

I totally agree with you in general, but actually weight is not the
primary consideration when figuring out whether a premature baby is
healthy enough to go home. Plenty do go home under five pounds -- my
nephew was some incredibly small weight, I no longer remember how
small, but definitely under four pounds. But that's not really
relevant to this case at all.

--Helen

Here, it's 5lbs because infant car seats are not made for a baby under that
weight.
Not relevant at all to the article or issue discussed, but that's how it is
over here. Other places can be, and often are, different.
An otherwise healthy, normal (premature) baby isn't released until they hit
the 5lb mark because of the car seat issue. Won't even let you leave the
hospital unless you have a car seat to take the baby home in (even if you're
not going home in a vehicle) If a baby is premature, they do have other
factors - like the general ones to ensure the baby is fit to go as far as
health goes

On May 10, 3:12 pm, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/

OK, I have to admit, after reading this thread I panicked about
Shiloh's rash (see new thread) and scheduled a visit with the ped. I
had nightmare visions of his staph infection spreading all over his
body and me not doing anything about it because I didn't want to be
One of Those Paranoid Parents. So I brought him in, and basically was
One of Those Paranoid Parents (the on-call ped asked if this was our
first child...). :P

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04; Shiloh, 4/22/07

xkatx skrev:
Here, it's 5lbs because infant car seats are not made for a baby under that
weight.

LOL

That really made me laugh. If that would be an issue here for me I'd
really be ****ed!! I don't even own a car.

Cars are very heavily taxed in Denmark and not all families have one.

We bike a lot or take a bus or walk.

Culture differs!!! :-)

Tine, Denmark

emilymr skrev:
One of Those Paranoid Parents. So I brought him in, and basically was
One of Those Paranoid Parents (the on-call ped asked if this was our
first child...). :P

I'd much much rather be One of Those Paranoid Parents 10 times than I'd
be One of Those Neglecting Parents once.

So go on and be One of Those Paranoid Parents!

Tine, Denmark