Inconsiderate drivers and kids who walk to school

-L. wrote:
Jeanne wrote:

Our neighbor refuses to let their daughter stand at the bus stop for 5
minutes (usually two moms are there as well) because they think random
strangers will note the presence of the children and try something.
Instead they take their daughter to before-school care at a local
daycare for 5-10 minutes and let them take the girl to school. It's
certainly their choice and if it makes them feel better, it's a valid
solution but I wonder what makes them feel the neighborhood is so
unsafe? It's your typical middle/upper-middle class suburban
neighborhood with sidewalks, with a low crime rate, never a kidnapping, etc.


Polly Klass, Jacob Wetterling, Stephen Stayner, ....The list goes on
and on. My best friend's daughter almost got snatched two doors down
from their house in broad daylight, by a woman (Tulsa, OK). Luckily my
friend stepped outside right in time to see the woman put her arm
around M. and start to guide her to the car. The woman jumped in the
car and sped off.

Don't kid yourself that it can't happen in your hometown.


I didn't say it can't happen. Rather that it's very unlikely, especially
with 2 or 3 parents at the busstop.


Jeanne

In article _xUXe.24181$sx2.23116@fed1read02,
"Circe" wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Caledonia wrote:
I used to always believe that those parents shopping in Staples for
'school supplies' were sending their children to private schools, too.
Another illusion destroyed. (You *do* have public school supply lists,
right? Ours are down to providing the pencils and paper, ~ $70 for a
first-grader).

We have lists of school supplies they're supposed to
show up with, but you can get your school supplies wherever
you like.

Our school has actually had to stop distributing supply lists and/or in any
way requesting that parents purchase supplies because someone threatened a
lawsuit a couple of years ago.The school realized the lists/requests were
illegal because public education is FREE to all eligible students in
California, including supplies. Distributing the lists implied that
purchasing these school supplies was mandatory, and it cannot be.

The school has not fallen apart or been unable to provide sufficient
supplies for students as a result, though I supposei it's possible that
teachers are doing more of it out of their own pockets. Mostly, though, it's
down to parents asking teachers one on one if there's anything they need for
their classrooms. THAT'S perfectly legal.

So, you might consider the possibility that your schools are breaking
actually breaking the law by distributing those lists...
--
Be well, Barbara


Since I'm in California, they may well be -- and I've been told that if
a school has more than a certain percent of Title whatever (I forget --
indicates poverty level) they are required to provide ALL supplies.

However, the reality being what it is here in California, funding is,
difficult.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Rosalie B. wrote:

Reasonable safety precautions ARE non-negotiable. But it doesn't have
to be the teachers that ensure it. Your teachers may be OK with it.
I would have done it sometimes and in some circumstances and not in
others. (Whether it was in the contract or not - and I suspect that
it would NOT have been in our contracts because that's not the way
that they are written). It wouldn't have been people hired separately
to ensure safety BTW it would have been folks already working at the
school other than teachers who had these jobs on their lists.

I don't think we even *have* enough people at the
school who aren't teachers to fill all those positions.
We've only got...hmmm...a principal, asst. principal
(both of whom work dropoff and pickup every day), four
office staff (not all of whom are there all day, and
those who are there are quite busy with office tasks
during dropoff and pickup time), one clinic aide or
nurse (typically limited hours), a few custodians
(not all of whom are on duty during school hours),
two counselors, a social worker (also limited hours,
so not around for dropoff/pickup usually), a librarian
and assistant, and a couple of other folks (most of
whom are limited hours). Most positions that aren't
teaching positions are shared among a couple of
schools *because* this is an elementary school and
therefore there isn't enough work to justify a full
time person. So, we *would* have to hire additional
people just to do these jobs if teaching staff weren't
among those who rotated through these duties.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

Reasonable safety precautions ARE non-negotiable. But it doesn't have
to be the teachers that ensure it. Your teachers may be OK with it.
I would have done it sometimes and in some circumstances and not in
others. (Whether it was in the contract or not - and I suspect that
it would NOT have been in our contracts because that's not the way
that they are written). It wouldn't have been people hired separately
to ensure safety BTW it would have been folks already working at the
school other than teachers who had these jobs on their lists.

Well we had the principal plus an assistant principal for each grade
(3) - this was a middle school and thus older children and more of
them - probably 750 to 800 students at the very minimum. Plus it was
a very rural community and almost all the children rode the bus
because it was too dangerous to walk, and there were very few children
dropped off by their parents.

We had two office staff (because the teachers did all the office work
for their own classes - the office did no copying or anything like
that for us, and they didn't handle the kids school records either -
that was done in guidance), two librarians, absolutely NO nurse, No
social worker, and one or maybe two guidance counselors. We did also
have special ed and remedial reading teachers too, and one of them had
an aide. Otherwise no aides that I can remember and I'm not sure how
many custodians or cafeteria people.

But we also had two or three gym teachers, two music teachers, two
shop teachers (at least in those days - positions such as this may
have been eliminated), and two home ec teachers, none of whom had a
homeroom to watch and could have done bus duty although I'm pretty
sure that they did not.

We also had 10 or 15 minutes in the morning for students to come down
the halls from the buses and go to the lockers and go to homeroom.
All of us teachers were supervising the halls, lockers and homeroom
during this time. There were still buses dropping off kids. We
couldn't have been out there doing buses.


I don't think we even *have* enough people at the
school who aren't teachers to fill all those positions.
We've only got...hmmm...a principal, asst. principal
(both of whom work dropoff and pickup every day), four
office staff (not all of whom are there all day, and
those who are there are quite busy with office tasks
during dropoff and pickup time), one clinic aide or
nurse (typically limited hours), a few custodians
(not all of whom are on duty during school hours),
two counselors, a social worker (also limited hours,
so not around for dropoff/pickup usually), a librarian
and assistant, and a couple of other folks (most of
whom are limited hours). Most positions that aren't
teaching positions are shared among a couple of
schools *because* this is an elementary school and
therefore there isn't enough work to justify a full
time person. So, we *would* have to hire additional
people just to do these jobs if teaching staff weren't
among those who rotated through these duties.

Best wishes,
Ericka

grandma Rosalie

Rosalie B. wrote:

But we also had two or three gym teachers, two music teachers, two
shop teachers (at least in those days - positions such as this may
have been eliminated), and two home ec teachers, none of whom had a
homeroom to watch and could have done bus duty although I'm pretty
sure that they did not.

We have gym and music teachers (no shop, obviously),
but they have the same access to planning time and whatnot
that the rest of the teachers have, so they rotate through
their duties just like the rest of the teachers.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:

*On 2005-09-18, Hillary Israeli wrote:
*
* We're
* required to make a left into the lot and a right out of the lot - this
* means that we have to actually go around the school because the way we
* approach, we'd have to make a right into the lot which is forbidden. So,

*This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Someone gave no
*thought at all to safety when making up the rules. What you should do
*is petition the school to allow only RIGHT turns into or out of the
*lot, so that no traffic needs to be crossed entering or exiting the
*lot, and so that wrong-way traffic is not encouraged.

OK, so, I read your post, and I thought "Kevin is a genius! Our problems
are solved! I'll just tell the administrator and then they'll implement
this plan that no one in the history of the school has thought of yet!"
(seriously. I thought that. For about ten seconds ) Then I realized
"there must be a reason..." and I called my dad (who has experience
managing traffic flow).

"Dad," I asked, "why would they not implement Kevin's idea?"
"Well, honey," he replied, "you know how if you approach the lot so that
it is on your right, there is that area where the sidewalk has a cut-out,
to make room for the school buses to pull up to pick up and drop off
children there, in front of the bus shed, near the entrance to the parking
lot?"
"Yeah" I said.
"Well, if there is a line of cars waiting to make a right turn into the
lot, the school buses will be blocked from accessing their curbside pull
up area. Or blocked from leaving. either way..."

Oh. So. That is probably the reason.

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

On 2005-09-21, Hillary Israeli wrote:
In ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:

*On 2005-09-18, Hillary Israeli wrote:
*
* We're
* required to make a left into the lot and a right out of the lot - this
* means that we have to actually go around the school because the way we
* approach, we'd have to make a right into the lot which is forbidden. So,

*This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Someone gave no
*thought at all to safety when making up the rules. What you should do
*is petition the school to allow only RIGHT turns into or out of the
*lot, so that no traffic needs to be crossed entering or exiting the
*lot, and so that wrong-way traffic is not encouraged.

OK, so, I read your post, and I thought "Kevin is a genius! Our problems
are solved! I'll just tell the administrator and then they'll implement
this plan that no one in the history of the school has thought of yet!"
(seriously. I thought that. For about ten seconds ) Then I realized
"there must be a reason..." and I called my dad (who has experience
managing traffic flow).

"Dad," I asked, "why would they not implement Kevin's idea?"
"Well, honey," he replied, "you know how if you approach the lot so that
it is on your right, there is that area where the sidewalk has a cut-out,
to make room for the school buses to pull up to pick up and drop off
children there, in front of the bus shed, near the entrance to the parking
lot?"
"Yeah" I said.
"Well, if there is a line of cars waiting to make a right turn into the
lot, the school buses will be blocked from accessing their curbside pull
up area. Or blocked from leaving. either way..."

Oh. So. That is probably the reason.

Maybe we need a map of the whole block that the school is on.
Perhaps if you gave us the address we could look at Google's aerial
photos.

Though the reason your father gave is quite likely what they were
thinking, it is an argument for faster traffic flow, not for greater
safety. (Most bus pullouts are for the convenience of motorists, not
for the bus drivers or passengers.) The buses would have to get in
the traffic with the car drivers, but that should not result in
enormously long delays, and should still be safer than having all the
drivers making left turns and having motorists driving on the wrong
side of the street.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

"Louise" wrote in message
...

Presumably it's a path that
Claire's been taking with her children for many years.

That's for sure. I remember when Rose first learned to walk, and going down
that path with her, and what an adventure that was for both of us. We also
have a little video of Emma at about 20 months walking down that path in the
fall -- it's been a part of our lives for a long time.

It's funny, but because the path is so widely used by everyone, it is really
a way for everyone in the neighborhood to be better acquainted. If you're
outside in your yard, you'll see your neighbors heading to the path; if
you're on your way to the path, you'll see your neighbors if they're outside
themselves.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

On 2005-09-22, Kevin Karplus wrote:
Maybe we need a map of the whole block that the school is on.
Perhaps if you gave us the address we could look at Google's aerial
photos.

Hillary provided me with the information in private e-mail.

It seems that there are no very good solutions for redirecting
traffic with the current setup. It was *not* designed to handle large
volumes of traffic to the school site.

The best solution would be to prohibit so many people from driving
their kids to school, but given that *that* won't happen, the best I
could come up with would require building another one-way driveway
into the parking lot from a side street, and using the new driveway and
side street to provide the stacking that is currently happening on the
busy street.

This would require giving up a little of the playing field (which I'm
only guessing that the school owns) and I have no idea where the money
for the driveway would come from. There may also be NIMBYism from the
people who live on the side street.


------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

Kevin Karplus wrote:

On 2005-09-22, Kevin Karplus wrote:
Maybe we need a map of the whole block that the school is on.
Perhaps if you gave us the address we could look at Google's aerial
photos.

Hillary provided me with the information in private e-mail.

It seems that there are no very good solutions for redirecting
traffic with the current setup. It was *not* designed to handle large
volumes of traffic to the school site.

The best solution would be to prohibit so many people from driving
their kids to school, but given that *that* won't happen, the best I
could come up with would require building another one-way driveway
into the parking lot from a side street, and using the new driveway and
side street to provide the stacking that is currently happening on the
busy street.

This would require giving up a little of the playing field (which I'm
only guessing that the school owns) and I have no idea where the money
for the driveway would come from. There may also be NIMBYism from the
people who live on the side street.

Hillary and I had some correspondence on this too. This was the
result

I've forgotten why you couldn't just come up
N. Roberts Rd, pass the school bus cutout and turn right into and out
of the parking lot. Isn't non-school traffic already doing that?

I am not sure, but I expected the line would back up in front of the
bus area and block it. Non-school traffic just passes by, of course.

What about making Wyndon Ave 3 lane from Kennedy as far as the parking
lot with the middle lane for left turns? It looks like there's enough
space for that if you just remarked the street for that half block
(with no parking allowed on the street).

That would be really tight - not sure if that could work, maybe.

Or if the building with the circle in front is part of the school,
what about having the parents drop their kids off there in kind of a
kiss-and-ride? Maybe not for the tiny kids, but for the upper grades.

I'd have to go check out that area and see.

Or how about having the buses turn right and unload in the parking lot
directly in front of the school, and then exit to the right and let
the parents use the bus cutout coming down from N. Roberts road on the
right hand side. (Have teachers there as there are now)

I also thought that it might be better if the bus cutout went all the
way to the cross street.

I'm not a traffic planner, so I'm sure that many of these ideas are
impractical money-wise or politically speaking.


grandma Rosalie