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Confused mother of 2



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 16th 06, 05:07 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Confused mother of 2

Hi everyone I am new to this group. I found this group by doing
searches about pro spanking. I am currently a mother of 2 boy age 8
and girl age 5 and I am expecting another in July '06. I am separated
from my the childrens father and I am currently living with the father
of the new baby. My other 2 kids father is no longer in the picture
and my fiance has more or less taken a role as stepfather to them. He
has no other children but comes from a larger family than I do. He was
raised by only his mother who had her hands full with 3 boys of her
own, a daughter and step sons. She did not hesitate in spanking any
of them but also did not use it as her only form of punishment. I on
the other hand was raised as an only child, very much spoiled, yet I
did have respect formy parents and my mother was known to give the
occassional swat on the butt or at least threaten to do so. The
dilemma I have is this. My 2 kids are very much out of control most of
the time. I personally have a great deal of trouble reigning them in
and having them mind me. My fiance, whom they both love, has much
greater control over them. We have been working with both kids since
we all moved in together to try to get them to behave better, be more
responsible, more respectful and things seem to go very well when he is
around but I am still having a problem getting them to respect me. I
give them the occassional smack here and there which seems to work with
my 8 year old son but my daughter will just laugh and become more
defiant. He says I need to take a stronger hand with them. That when
my daughter gets that way to put her across my knee, bare her butt and
smack her a few times. That after a few times she'll get the message
that mom means business. I have tried this but usually with only 1
smack on the bare and it does seem to drive home the message if for
only a short time. Obviously I have used this method and it has worked
but then why am I still afraid to use it? I seem to always extinguish
every other available method and get completely aggravated before I
will resort to this. My question that I guess I have is this: If
children have been raised 1 way and it has not worked, do they reach a
point when they are too old to try another method? Are my kids still
salvageable or will they only hate me and get worse if I change the
discipline method completely? And what exactly is considered an
appropriate spanking? How is it administered? Bare butt? Implement
or hand? Til what age? Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated. As I said I am completely confused and just plain
exhausted from dealing with the 2 of them.

Sincerely,

raeben31

  #2  
Old February 17th 06, 02:39 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Confused mother of 2

Hello Reaben

My name is Jeremy, and I also have a 5yo daughter. She also strong willed
and defient like your daugter and many children her age so I believe that I
can help you. However I am going to reply to your questions by sending you
an e-mail instead of here on the group because any pro-spanking comments on
this group draw flames from the no-spank folks and I am tired of reading
them. I am not sure why they come to this page, it is a spanking newsgroup.
I would suggest to them that they start their own group called
"alt.parenting.nospank" but they wouldn't listen anyway, I really think they
just like to argue and feel superior to those around them. Even your
questions here are sure to draw comments, but just do what I do and ignore
them. One particular idiot even has the audicity to consider himself a
saint, or an angel or something, whatever that emoticon is suppossed to be,
he is by far the worst, don't even take the time to read anything he posts.
I agree with your fiance and will send you a detailed email shortly as to
how you should be handling this situation.

Jeremy


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi everyone I am new to this group. I found this group by doing
searches about pro spanking. I am currently a mother of 2 boy age 8
and girl age 5 and I am expecting another in July '06. I am separated
from my the childrens father and I am currently living with the father
of the new baby. My other 2 kids father is no longer in the picture
and my fiance has more or less taken a role as stepfather to them. He
has no other children but comes from a larger family than I do. He was
raised by only his mother who had her hands full with 3 boys of her
own, a daughter and step sons. She did not hesitate in spanking any
of them but also did not use it as her only form of punishment. I on
the other hand was raised as an only child, very much spoiled, yet I
did have respect formy parents and my mother was known to give the
occassional swat on the butt or at least threaten to do so. The
dilemma I have is this. My 2 kids are very much out of control most of
the time. I personally have a great deal of trouble reigning them in
and having them mind me. My fiance, whom they both love, has much
greater control over them. We have been working with both kids since
we all moved in together to try to get them to behave better, be more
responsible, more respectful and things seem to go very well when he is
around but I am still having a problem getting them to respect me. I
give them the occassional smack here and there which seems to work with
my 8 year old son but my daughter will just laugh and become more
defiant. He says I need to take a stronger hand with them. That when
my daughter gets that way to put her across my knee, bare her butt and
smack her a few times. That after a few times she'll get the message
that mom means business. I have tried this but usually with only 1
smack on the bare and it does seem to drive home the message if for
only a short time. Obviously I have used this method and it has worked
but then why am I still afraid to use it? I seem to always extinguish
every other available method and get completely aggravated before I
will resort to this. My question that I guess I have is this: If
children have been raised 1 way and it has not worked, do they reach a
point when they are too old to try another method? Are my kids still
salvageable or will they only hate me and get worse if I change the
discipline method completely? And what exactly is considered an
appropriate spanking? How is it administered? Bare butt? Implement
or hand? Til what age? Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated. As I said I am completely confused and just plain
exhausted from dealing with the 2 of them.

Sincerely,

raeben31



  #3  
Old February 23rd 06, 04:33 PM
beccafromlalaland beccafromlalaland is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by ParentingBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 108
Default

The problem with spanking is that it is a "temporary" fix. You said it yourself it gets the messege through if only for a short time. Do you want your children to be well behaved because they WANT to be, because they know it's the right thing to do. Or do you want them to be well behaved (only in your prescense) because they are afraid of being spanked?

I think completely changing your discipline style would be beneficial to you and your children. Because the one you are using right now clearly is not working.

I use the five steps

Step 1: State your request and offer a reason.

Example: "You need to stop playing and clean up. It is time to leave."

Step 2: Restate your request. Use the child's first name.

Example: " "Name" You need to stop playing and clean up."

It is helpful to get down on the child's level and touch your child while looking in his eyes to make sure you have his attention.

Step 3: Offer help.

Example: "You are having a hard time stopping your play. Can you stop playing and clean up or do you need my help?"

Whether your child requests help or not respect their wishes. Help is not a punishment, it is help.

Step 4: Help.

Example: "You are not stopping your play. Here, let me help you."

Again, help is not a punishment. It is an acknowledgment that your child is unable to stop on their own. This may be due to a lack of maturity, being tired or hungry, or simply not wanting to stop.

Step 5: The Bear Hug.

Stand behind your child and wrap your arms over her shoulders and across her chest. Hold her arms with your hands if you are concerned about her striking out. Squat down to her level and speak gently in her ear that you are helping her stop herself and that you will let her go when she can stop herself. Gentle pressure on her shoulders can keep her from kicking or attempting to run from you. This is not a punishment. It is providing outside boundaries for a child who lacks internal boundaries.



My final note is about your fiance...He has overstepped a boundary. It is NEVER ok for a step-parent to strike their step child. It is not a question of discipline at that point...it is a question of respect. He is not their father, he is your partner, he needs to respect your wishes when it comes to parenting your children. It sounds like you may be a little bit distressed when he spanks your kids...maybe you don't like it, makes you feel a little uncomfortable. That's normal...listen to those feelings, your intuition is the best ally you have in parenting. Don't ignore it...LISTEN to it.

Peace to you and your household.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hi everyone I am new to this group. I found this group by doing
searches about pro spanking. I am currently a mother of 2 boy age 8
and girl age 5 and I am expecting another in July '06. I am separated
from my the childrens father and I am currently living with the father
of the new baby. My other 2 kids father is no longer in the picture
and my fiance has more or less taken a role as stepfather to them. He
has no other children but comes from a larger family than I do. He was
raised by only his mother who had her hands full with 3 boys of her
own, a daughter and step sons. She did not hesitate in spanking any
of them but also did not use it as her only form of punishment. I on
the other hand was raised as an only child, very much spoiled, yet I
did have respect formy parents and my mother was known to give the
occassional swat on the butt or at least threaten to do so. The
dilemma I have is this. My 2 kids are very much out of control most of
the time. I personally have a great deal of trouble reigning them in
and having them mind me. My fiance, whom they both love, has much
greater control over them. We have been working with both kids since
we all moved in together to try to get them to behave better, be more
responsible, more respectful and things seem to go very well when he is
around but I am still having a problem getting them to respect me. I
give them the occassional smack here and there which seems to work with
my 8 year old son but my daughter will just laugh and become more
defiant. He says I need to take a stronger hand with them. That when
my daughter gets that way to put her across my knee, bare her butt and
smack her a few times. That after a few times she'll get the message
that mom means business. I have tried this but usually with only 1
smack on the bare and it does seem to drive home the message if for
only a short time. Obviously I have used this method and it has worked
but then why am I still afraid to use it? I seem to always extinguish
every other available method and get completely aggravated before I
will resort to this. My question that I guess I have is this: If
children have been raised 1 way and it has not worked, do they reach a
point when they are too old to try another method? Are my kids still
salvageable or will they only hate me and get worse if I change the
discipline method completely? And what exactly is considered an
appropriate spanking? How is it administered? Bare butt? Implement
or hand? Til what age? Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated. As I said I am completely confused and just plain
exhausted from dealing with the 2 of them.

Sincerely,

raeben31
__________________
Becca

Momma to two boys

Big Guy 3/02
and

Wuvy-Buv 8/05
  #4  
Old February 23rd 06, 10:26 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Confused mother of 2

I'm glad you picked this up, becca. Help from those in the same or
similar circumstance is so much more palatable and acceptable to someone
struggling with the problem.

I would like to comment a bit, if you don't mind.

beccafromlalaland wrote:
The problem with spanking is that it is a "temporary" fix. You said it
yourself it gets the messege through if only for a short time. Do you
want your children to be well behaved because they WANT to be, because
they know it's the right thing to do. Or do you want them to be well
behaved (only in your prescense) because they are afraid of being
spanked?

I think completely changing your discipline style would be beneficial
to you and your children. Because the one you are using right now
clearly is not working.


This can be the toughest part. I hope she stays in touch with you for
support in doing that.


I use the five steps

Step 1: State your request and offer a reason.

Example: "You need to stop playing and clean up. It is time to
leave."

Step 2: Restate your request. Use the child's first name.

Example: " "Name" You need to stop playing and clean up."

It is helpful to get down on the child's level and touch your child
while looking in his eyes to make sure you have his attention.

Step 3: Offer help.

Example: "You are having a hard time stopping your play. Can you
stop playing and clean up or do you need my help?"

Whether your child requests help or not respect their wishes. Help
is not a punishment, it is help.

Step 4: Help.

Example: "You are not stopping your play. Here, let me help
you."


You open yourself to the 'spankers' argument that you are taking too
much time and likely reinforcing the child misbehaving by giving so much
attention to it.

They are, of course, ignoring that you are teaching basic, vital, social
and job skills at the same time. This is the pattern the child will
carry into adulthood when they are the worker and the boss.

They will NOT be allowed to bully or beat someone to make them leave
them alone or to make them perform work.

The other thing they forget is, just how much teaching time is "wasted"
on one's child?

And finally, the time it takes usually to integrate this pattern in the
child is far shorter overall than what happens in the punishment mode.
That can drag on until (and will) the teen years.

You are teaching in a way that will END your teaching not only in this
one instance but will quickly then transfer to the next and the next and
the next. The child will expect, when they are stuck on something like
this, for you to provide the same kind of support and teaching.

Ah, if the spankers could only figure out not only how much damage is
avoided as well as how much total time is saved, not to mention one's
sanity. 0:-

Again, help is not a punishment. It is an acknowledgment that your
child is unable to stop on their own. This may be due to a lack of
maturity, being tired or hungry, or simply not wanting to stop.


I made the mistake of expecting one of my children to "clean up" when
too young. Fortunately I had a child development specialist as a friend.
Got my head straightened around in a hurry. "Help" is modeling.

And really young children, (and the rest of us) learn by repetition.
They have to see you do it many times, then practice it themselves many
times before they are good at it and consistent...just like an adult.

Why we expect more of the child is beyond me, but then I was dumb about
it too, so there yah go.

Step 5: The Bear Hug.

Stand behind your child and wrap your arms over her shoulders and
across her chest. Hold her arms with your hands if you are concerned
about her striking out. Squat down to her level and speak gently in
her ear that you are helping her stop herself and that you will let her
go when she can stop herself. Gentle pressure on her shoulders can keep
her from kicking or attempting to run from you. This is not a
punishment. It is providing outside boundaries for a child who lacks
internal boundaries.


Perfect. I taught this to parents of emotionally disturbed, as well as
normal kids, out of control or "misbehaving."

They could not believe that picking a child up and loving them would do
anything but reinforce the unwanted behavior. I've had them come back
and through their arms around me and kiss ME when they saw how
powerfully it works.

Kids live in constant frustration because of their ignorance and limits
on learning. There is nothing quite like (as my wife reminds me) the
peace and comfort of getting a hug when one is feeling frustrated and
out of control.

My final note is about your fiance...He has overstepped a boundary. It
is NEVER ok for a step-parent to strike their step child. It is not a
question of discipline at that point...it is a question of respect. He
is not their father, he is your partner, he needs to respect your wishes
when it comes to parenting your children. It sounds like you may be a
little bit distressed when he spanks your kids...maybe you don't like
it, makes you feel a little uncomfortable. That's normal...listen to
those feelings, your intuition is the best ally you have in parenting.
Don't ignore it...LISTEN to it.


Yup. If it's an insult to a child's psyche to strike one's OWN child,
imagine if a non parent does it.

Some of the men I worked with actually got the things you have suggested
even more quickly than the moms. Course they usually have a teeeny bit
less stress and pressure. R R R R R

Peace to you and your household.


Take care, becca. Best wishes.



Wrote:

Hi everyone I am new to this group. I found this group by doing
searches about pro spanking. I am currently a mother of 2 boy age 8
and girl age 5 and I am expecting another in July '06. I am separated
from my the childrens father and I am currently living with the father
of the new baby. My other 2 kids father is no longer in the picture
and my fiance has more or less taken a role as stepfather to them. He
has no other children but comes from a larger family than I do. He
was
raised by only his mother who had her hands full with 3 boys of her
own, a daughter and step sons. She did not hesitate in spanking any
of them but also did not use it as her only form of punishment. I on
the other hand was raised as an only child, very much spoiled, yet I
did have respect formy parents and my mother was known to give the
occassional swat on the butt or at least threaten to do so. The
dilemma I have is this. My 2 kids are very much out of control most
of
the time. I personally have a great deal of trouble reigning them in
and having them mind me. My fiance, whom they both love, has much
greater control over them. We have been working with both kids since
we all moved in together to try to get them to behave better, be more
responsible, more respectful and things seem to go very well when he
is
around but I am still having a problem getting them to respect me. I
give them the occassional smack here and there which seems to work
with
my 8 year old son but my daughter will just laugh and become more
defiant. He says I need to take a stronger hand with them. That when
my daughter gets that way to put her across my knee, bare her butt and
smack her a few times. That after a few times she'll get the message
that mom means business. I have tried this but usually with only 1
smack on the bare and it does seem to drive home the message if for
only a short time. Obviously I have used this method and it has
worked
but then why am I still afraid to use it? I seem to always extinguish
every other available method and get completely aggravated before I
will resort to this. My question that I guess I have is this: If
children have been raised 1 way and it has not worked, do they reach a
point when they are too old to try another method? Are my kids still
salvageable or will they only hate me and get worse if I change the
discipline method completely? And what exactly is considered an
appropriate spanking? How is it administered? Bare butt? Implement
or hand? Til what age? Any help anyone can give is greatly
appreciated. As I said I am completely confused and just plain
exhausted from dealing with the 2 of them.

Sincerely,

raeben31






--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
 




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